Debates of Feb. 1st, 2002

Minister of National Defence

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I suppose he is also accusing you of playing politics based on your ruling.

Could I ask the Deputy Minister when the Clerk of the Privy Council found out about the taking of prisoners by our troops in Afghanistan?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I have no knowledge that the Clerk of the Privy Council found out at a different time. The information was passed by the Minister of National Defence to the Prime Minister, which was his duty to do so, on Tuesday morning at cabinet.

[Deborah Grey, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton North, AB]

Shame on the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr. Speaker. He should be ultimately responsible for what is going on in the House.

The House today, at your will, Mr. Speaker, is considering a motion of censure for the defence minister. Troops must feel confident in the chain of command. Aside from the Prime Minister himself, the minister is the highest link in that chain. Our military must have confidence in that chain of command but it is pretty clear that they do not.

When will the minister re-instill confidence in the troops of the Canadian military and resign?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I will not comment on where the weakest link is, but I will say that I do not think the troops who are representing us so well on the ground right now in Afghanistan are the least bit concerned about when this information may or may not have been passed up the chain of command. They are concerned with the fact that they are doing a job and they have the full and active support of the government and the people of Canada in carrying out a mission that is important for all of us.

[Deborah Grey, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I represent an enormous military base and they are concerned about the competence of the minister who is at the top of that chain.

The Liberal cabinet obviously does not think it is very important to share vital strategic information with the Prime Minister of Canada himself. Evidently, as per their own admission, the Prime Minister only learned about this absolute fracas eight days after the event happened.

Just what does the cabinet bother telling the Prime Minister, or in fact what does the Prime Minister really care to learn other than anything but his golf score?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

An absolute fracas, Mr. Speaker. Is she suggesting that these troops behaved improperly in carrying out their duties? Is she suggesting that they did not act with the most professional competence in doing a job they were sent there to do?

That was not a fracas. That was Canadian troops doing what they were supposed to do. They should be applauded it for it.

Citizenship and Immigration

[Paul Forseth, Canadian Alliance, New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. Despite all the rhetoric of the government, nothing has changed for customs and immigration officials since September 11.

Officials say that they are under such pressure to admit people into Canada that they only have 15 seconds to check out new entrants before they leave the airport. Some officials do not even bother looking at passports. This is so unconscionable in the light of September 11.

What kind of disaster will it take for the government to put in place proper screening for people entering Canada?

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I think we must take care not to confuse two things. There is the work of the customs officers and then there is the work of the immigration officers.

Since September 11, I believe we have made substantial resources available. There is new legislation in place and new regulations which make it possible for them to do a proper job. I am very proud of our front line workers.

[Paul Forseth, Canadian Alliance, New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, another story of many has come to light. Over 100 Tunisians posing as tourists were allowed to enter Canada and then promptly disappeared. Thanks to the lousy Liberals, there is another Canadian link to the al-Qaeda chain, and the minister only has promised an internal review of this situation.

Will this minister tell the House today the results of his review? Why is he allowing his department to systematically drop its guard against the threat of terrorism?

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the style of my hon. colleague's questions is extremely dangerous. I trust that he is not generalizing, but I am pleased to announce to this House that at 3 p.m., after meeting with Dorval immigration officers, I shall be holding a press conference to release the results of the investigation.

Foreign Affairs

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, earlier, in reply to a question concerning the Privy Council, the Deputy Prime Minister told us that he did not know if the clerk had been informed of the fact that we had taken prisoners in Afghanistan.

How can he justify that, in a government involved in an international crisis, whose Minister of National Defence is in the hot seat, and whose Prime Minister seemingly made two erroneous statements because he was not given the appropriate information, no one checked with the Clerk of the Privy Council to find out when the information had reached Privy Council?

He wants to tell us that no one—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, it is not our role to justify the actions of the clerk. The fact is that the Prime Minister received the information from the Minister of National Defence on Tuesday morning. He did not get this information from the clerk.

It must also be understood that regarding information on the situation in Afghanistan, this is not a strategic issue. There are no risks for Canada. It was just a matter of facts.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to information of that importance, particularly when it involves the Prime Minister, who was led to make erroneous statements twice, including before this House, the first thing that a government would normally do—not just blame the minister responsible and try to get rid of him—is to check with the Clerk of the Privy Council. This kind of information gets there under any circumstances.

Is the Deputy Prime Minister telling us that neither he nor someone in his entourage ever tried to check when that information reached the deputy minister of the Prime Minister?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, the important issues are: When did the Minister of National Defence receive the information and when did the Prime Minister receive the information? Everything was explained with regard to these questions.

Minister of National Defence

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Defence apparently visited 24 Sussex Drive to apologize to the Prime Minister. He should have apologized to the Canadian people and to our troops.

A government insider said today:

We've got soldiers overseas. There's a higher level of conduct expected from a defence minister. It goes to credibility. I don't think he has any.

Does the Deputy Prime Minister think the defence minister has any credibility?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with Lewis MacKenzie. I think the opposition is playing politics with this, and I agree with General MacKenzie that this is not the time to be doing it.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said last fall that Canadians did not want to have a big fight there. Now the government seems to be embarrassed that our troops are in a big fight there.

Is the real reason the government did not admit that our troops handed prisoners over to the United States until Tuesday was that some of its own members would rather that we had not handed over prisoners at all?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, we had to anticipate when Canadian Forces were going into a combat zone that they were going to be conducting operations that could lead to the arrest of prisoners. Throughout though it has been clear that in Canada's view the Geneva conventions applied and we would respect international law with respect to those prisoners.

There is no embarrassment about that at all. In fact we take great pride in the fact that Canada has contributed the third largest number of troops in the campaign against terrorism, and we are proud of that.

Natural Resources

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. Earlier this week Alberta Energy and PanCanadian announced they had reached agreement to merge and become one of the largest independent oil and gas producers in Canada. It will operate under the name EnCana Corporation and be headquartered in Calgary, Alberta.

Will this merger have any significant impact on the Canadian economy in terms of competition, employment and investment?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, this is an important development in the Canadian oil and gas industry. The proposed merger would create the largest oil and gas company in Canada, thereby improving its competitive position globally.

I welcome EnCana's leadership role in representing Canada in world energy markets. Our natural resources are Canada's greatest assets, now and for the future. I am confident EnCana will play an important role in its development and in the global energy business.

Public Works and Government Services Canada

[Ted White, Canadian Alliance, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it simply is not credible to expect us to believe that nobody on the government side is the least bit concerned about Alfonso's activities pre-Denmark. Yet yesterday every Liberal on the public works committee voted against any inquiry into the Alfonso affair.

Why exactly were the Liberal members whipped into voting against an inquiry that would have cleared the air for the public of Canada?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman in his question is inviting the House to cast a reflection on the conduct of the committee and that of course is not within the rules of the House. If he has a complaint, he can bring it in the appropriate manner within the rules of the House, but this question is out of order.

Foreign Affairs

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in order to be sure that we have clearly understood the Deputy Prime Minister, I would simply ask him the following specific question: can the Deputy Prime Minister rise in his place and tell us that the Clerk of the Privy Council, who is a deputy minister of the Prime Minister, did not know that Canada had taken prisoners in Afghanistan before Tuesday morning, which is when the Prime Minister says he learned of the situation?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I can simply say that the clerk informed neither myself nor the Prime Minister. We were informed at the cabinet meeting on Tuesday morning.

It should also be pointed out that our troops have conducted themselves well in Afghanistan, doing precisely what we said they would do.