House of Commons Hansard #137 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was information.
Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK
Mr. Speaker, you are far more schooled in the procedures of committees than I could be, having arrived in this position only a few days ago. However as I understand it, once the matter is voted on here it will be properly referred to the committee and the committee will determine the appropriate means by which to pursue the matter.
Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC
Mr. Speaker, I understand that my time will be interrupted by the period allocated to members' statements and oral questions and that I will be able to continue after that. I would like begin by thanking you for allowing the procedure to continue, since we are dealing with a very serious case in which a minister has provided the House with two totally contradictory pieces of information.
First of all he told the leader of the Bloc Quebecois that he had been informed on the Friday, and then a little later in question period, that it had been on Monday. This makes an extremely important difference to the minister's statement.
What I would like to draw to hon. members' attention today is that the matter is even more serious than that. There is a second reason why the minister might need to be brought before the committee—and this will need to be debated.
Yesterday, in his own defence, the minister used the following arguments, and I quote his exact words:
The question I answered on Tuesday from the Leader of the Bloc Quebecois I answered in the context of a photograph I had seen on Friday for the first time. When I saw the photograph for the first time I did not connect it with a briefing I had received the previous Monday —
I will again focus the attention of the members of this House, who are going to debate in committee how the statements by the minister are going to be handled, on the question by the Bloc Quebecois leader and the minister's response. The minister, hon. members will recall, said “I was speaking of a photo”.
What the leader of the Bloc Quebecois had asked was as follows:
Mr. Speaker, the hon. member who is appointed Minister of National Defence should normally be sufficiently qualified to be appointed.
Since when did he know that Afghans had been captured by Canadians and handed over to Americans?
Nothing could be clearer than that. He continued:
Since when did he know that? And why did he not inform the Prime Minister who, as recently as Sunday, stated that there were no such prisoners? Why did he not bother to tell him during yesterday's caucus meeting, before oral question period?
What is going on with this minister? Did he know or did he not?
The minister responded to this extremely clear question as follows:
—I first became aware of the possibility on Friday.
At no time did the minister refer to any photograph whatsoever. At no time, either in the question or in the answer, did there remain any doubt whatsoever regarding the possibility that a photo might have been taken, which could somehow have misled the minister.
Not only did the minister formally contradict himself before the House, and we will find out why he did so in committee but, what is more, the minister covered up his contradiction with an excuse which I am unable to find acceptable parliamentary language to describe. The minister added insult to injury by rising in his place a second time and offering the following excuse to his peers and to you, Mr. Speaker:
The question I answered on Tuesday from the Leader of the Bloc Quebecois I answered in the context of a photograph I had seen on Friday—.
To a perfectly clear question “When was the minister informed that there were prisoners?”, he replied that he found out on the Friday. His explanation: he saw on Friday a photo of Canadian soldiers taking prisoners, and he replied “Friday”.
My comment is that the Canadian army and all of Canada are involved in a highly strategic operation under circumstances which I need not remind anyone of, but which leave everyone concerned and aware of how important the exceptional role of the Canadian army is in this conflict. Normally, we send the Blue Berets for peacekeeping.
For the first time in years, Canada is undertaking an active operation through the Canadian Forces. This is not a peacekeeping operation. We are active in the field.
Third, this is such an important mission that Canada sent an elite unit of the Canadian Forces in camouflage to take part in this combat mission. We are talking about a highly strategic operation, an unique operation, the likes of which we have not seen in years, an operation that is being carried out by an elite unit.
The Minister of National Defence confirmed that he had an indepth conversation about this operation at a cabinet committee meeting the week before. The minister had been informed that, for the first time in many, many years, the Canadian Forces active in the field were taking prisoners. This is no small affair. For the first time during special missions, the Canadian Forces are taking prisoners.
During this same time, the Americans were discussing publicly the fate of the prisoners. Everyone was aware of the debate going on in the U.S. until the President made a decision; and even then the fate of the prisoners remained vague. But the Americans were publicly questioning what should happen to the prisoners.
Then, on Friday, the minister finally got visual confirmation in a photo of the fact that our Canadian soldiers had taken prisoners. How is it that a person who is at the head of the Canadian Forces, who is in charge of a highly strategic international operation, who has sent an elite unit with all of the implications involved as per cabinet decisions, who has been briefed that we had taken prisoners for the first time in years, who has witnessed the Americans discussing the fate of these prisoners, and their treatment, which was still undecided—and there were diverging opinions on the matter—how is it that this minister, during all this time, could not make the connection between a photo showing soldiers capturing prisoners, of which he had been informed one week prior, and the event? How could he not realize that they are one and the same?
He said himself that he did not make the connection:
When I saw the photograph for the first time I did not connect it with a briefing I had received the previous Monday—
How can a minister rise in the House in such a particular context and tell his peers, in defence of an erroneous statement he gave, that “I had not made the connection between a photo of Canadian soldiers with prisoners and a briefing, four days earlier, to the effect that, for the first time in years, Canadian soldiers had taken prisoners”?
The minister will have a hard time explaining to the parliamentary committee why he hid his first contradiction with another one that is even more blatant and obvious. It is unbelievable that a minister would behave in such a scary way, with such contempt for the House of Commons.
It is unbelievable that the man who is in charge of the Canadian armed forces, who would not think of informing the Prime Minister that prisoners had been captured, who is responsible for a broad international operation, who was informed of an action and who saw a photo four days later that confirmed the action, would then say that “I did not make the connection”. If he did not make the connection between a photo of Canadian soldiers rounding up prisoners and the information that he had been given, it speaks volumes about his judgment and his ability to understand his responsibilities.
If the Minister of National Defence is behaving so erratically, it is probably because he is trying to hide some information from the House. What I am saying is that we will have to find out why this man, this member of parliament, behaved in such an incredible way before his peers in the House of Commons, if it is not to protect other information or persons who may have played a role and who may have behaved somewhat like the minister.
The committee will have to determine not only why this minister behaved in such an incredible way, but also why he tried to cover up his first contradiction with an explanation that does not make any sense, an explanation that not one Canadian would accept. Why did the minister do this? Why would a minister agree to put himself in such a position before his peers?
This is what the committee will have to determine. The government party, which agreed to let the committee look into the matter, will also have to agree to let witnesses give evidence. It is not enough to agree to have the minister appear before the committee; the government must also let witnesses appear. It will have to let us question—
Privilege
The Speaker
I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member, but he will have nine minutes when the motion is again debated in the House. We must now move on to statements by members.
The hon. member for Ottawa Centre.
Mac Harb Liberal Ottawa Centre, ON
Mr. Speaker, we were pleased and proud to hear that Rhombus Media has received a prestigious New York Festivals gold award. This marks the ninth award Rhombus Media has received at this international festival, and is clear evidence of the great quality of its production.
The award-winning documentary, Crossing Bridges , chronicles the recent trip by the National Arts Centre Orchestra to Israel, under the direction of its director, Maestro Pinchas Zukerman. Crossing Bridges offers an indepth look at the musicians' commitment to connecting with others and fostering peace between peoples.
This medal is a double honour for Canada, on the one hand acknowledging the quality of Rhombus Media's cinematic production and on the other bringing into the limelight the National Arts Centre Orchestra, an ensemble of eminent Canadian musicians anxious to share their love of music and to serve a humanitarian cause.
Congratulations from the House of Commons.
Brian Fitzpatrick Canadian Alliance Prince Albert, SK
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay tribute to Jack Matheson, Prince Albert's citizen extraordinaire who passed away of cancer last month.
Jack was a man whose life was truly dedicated to making other people's lives better. Whether it was his public service as a city councillor, his 12 years as a school trustee or the energy he devoted as a national director of the Canadian Cancer Society, Jack was always a man of service.
His business was clothing but he clothed himself with a garment of dignity and a hat of wisdom. Jack's dedication to community service is an example to everyone as well as being an example of how private initiative can remedy social ills.
Jack Matheson will be missed. It will be very difficult to replace a community leader of Jack Matheson's calibre.
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to remind hon. members and all Canadians that February is Cardiovascular Disease Awareness Month.
Despite advances in health care, cardiovascular disease remains the most common cause of death, accounting for 37% of all deaths in Canada each year. The true burden of cardiovascular diseases is experienced by those Canadians living with these diseases and experiencing a significant decline in their quality of life.
Health Canada is committed to working with the Canadian Heart Health Initiative, Canadian Coalition for High Blood Pressure Prevention and Control, and others in order to encourage Canadians to live a healthy lifestyle. Much work remains, however. The major causes of heart disease and stroke rest with our lifestyles.
By joining forces with others in attenuating this modern epidemic of chronic diseases, we can mobilize society as a whole to invest in heart health and enhance the quality of life of all Canadians.
Sarmite Bulte Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Mr. Speaker, it is with great sorrow I announce that Urjo Kareda, one of the world's greatest artistic directors, passed away in Toronto on December 26, 2001.
Like so many people who immigrated to Canada, Urjo was extremely proud of his adopted country. He was also a champion of Canadian artists. In the seventies, as a theatre critic for The Toronto Star , his enthusiasm for Canadian plays and artists was critical in the development of the theatre.
In 1975 he joined the Stratford Festival as literary manager and he will be remembered for his weekly diary of the arts on CBC Radio in the eighties. But it was as artistic director of the Tarragon Theatre that he found his true calling. During his 20 years at the Tarragon he established the theatre as the leading producer of Canadian plays.
Urjo Kareda was an example of all the best in an artist; he lived his life creatively and he will be greatly missed.
Gurbax Malhi Liberal Bramalea—Gore—Malton—Springdale, ON
Mr. Speaker, the city of Brampton is launching a new logo and plan of activities to celebrate its 150th anniversary.
The first municipal council of the village of Brampton was established in 1853. It then had a population of 78 people. Brampton is now the thirteenth largest city in Canada with a population of 320,000 people. Today, Brampton has been ranked in the top five most active construction markets in Canada with a record-breaking number of building permits issued totalling $1.1 billion in construction value in 2000.
I congratulate the city of Brampton for its proud history, its accomplishments and its work in building for a bright and rewarding future.
Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—Petite-Patrie, QC
Mr. Speaker, it is with a heavy heart that we learned this morning of the passing of Thérèse Daviau.
Thérèse Daviau was a great pioneer, one of the first women elected to council in 1974 with the Rassemblement des citoyens de Montréal, in the Plateau Mont-Royal ward.
A lawyer by training, Thérèse Daviau was a woman who was involved in advocating for the rights of Quebec society. We will all remember her as a great lady who made a priority of being available to hear from her fellow citizens.
Her lengthy political career was full of milestones, but her fate was also touched by tragedy, when her daughter died in the Polytechnique shooting. This tragic event prompted her to work tirelessly in the fight against firearms.
Today, the Bloc Quebecois has lost a friend. On behalf of all of my colleagues, I would like to extend my most sincere and heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Thérèse Daviau.
Libby Davies NDP Vancouver East, BC
Mr. Speaker, Black Thursday as it became known hit B.C. like an earthquake and we are still feeling the aftershocks of Gordon Campbell's unprecedented assault on the very fabric of democracy and civil society.
His slashing and burning targets the most vulnerable in what can only be described as vengeful and cruel. Deep cuts to basic welfare assistance, legal aid, women's centres and youth services are just a few in a long list. I raise this in the House because Mr. Campbell and his Liberals are also gutting our public health care system and punishing health care workers. Even ERs are threatened by private for profit ventures.
I will do everything I can to oppose the dismantling of these public services. However, why are the federal Liberals being so silent as their B.C. Liberal friends tear apart people's lives? The federal government has a responsibility to protect public health care, basic social services and people's rights. It needs to be done now and the federal government must speak up and protect these basic services before they are gone forever.
David Pratt Liberal Nepean—Carleton, ON
Mr. Speaker, recently 285 students from Knoxdale Public School in my riding joined with the United Nations Association in Canada to launch a blue ribbon campaign in an effort to promote international co-operation and peace through the education of our children.
These ribbons which are the international symbol of peace are now available at Canada Post outlets across the country. I encourage all Canadians to support this campaign by making a donation and wearing a blue ribbon. Using the proceeds from this campaign, the United Nations Association in Canada along with their partners, the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police and Canada Post Corporation, will be reaching 2.3 million school children across the country with their message of hope.
Our thanks must go to everyone involved in this important project. There is no greater lesson to be learned than the values of peace, co-operation and tolerance.
Peter MacKay Progressive Conservative Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS
Mr. Speaker, today I plead with members of the House and Canadians to turn their eyes to Atlantic Canada. The small town of Canso, an historic close-knit community in my riding of Pictou--Antigonish--Guysborough, is in dire need of assistance.
The town's main employer, Seafreeze, a fish plant, is in peril, putting hundreds of people out of work. Canso needs the government's help. Without quota, Seafreeze has been forced to scale down its operations.
I commend the owner, Bill Berry, Mayor Frank Fraser, the Canso Trawlerman's Association and the fishermen's union, along with MLA Ron Chisholm, for their tireless efforts to keep this vital industry operating.
Now is the time for the government to step forward. I know that the new federal Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, who comes from a community like Canso, will intervene in this crisis. I am hopeful that this first Nova Scotia Minister of Fisheries and Oceans in 40 years will not turn his back on a community in his home province. The red fish quota is needed and necessary for this plant to survive in the short term but access to more resources and fisheries must be secured for the long term.
The people of Canso deserve stability and the ability to work and live in their hometown. The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans has agreed to meet with the stakeholders in the future and I hope that he will work with them to find a long term and creative solution for Canso.
Betty Hinton Canadian Alliance Kamloops, Thompson And Highland Valleys, BC
Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister was in such a hurry to cover up the allegations of patronage regarding Alfonso Gagliano that he appointed him ambassador to Denmark without telling the Danish people about it first.
The Vienna convention of diplomatic relations has established that the receiving country should be allowed the option to refuse a newly appointed ambassador before any public announcements are made.
However, the Prime Minister did not follow those rules on foreign diplomacy because he was concerned Denmark would refuse to be the dumping ground for his disgraced friend. His fears may not have been unfounded. On January 20, the popular Danish newspaper Ekstra Bladet reported that Alfonso Gagliano had been linked to patronage and corruption. If Alfonso Gagliano was not fit to serve the Canadian people in parliament then he is not fit to serve the Canadian people in Denmark.
The Prime Minister should show his respect for the rules of foreign diplomacy for Denmark and for the Canadian Danish community by cancelling Mr. Gagliano's undeserved appointment immediately.
Lynn Myers Liberal Waterloo—Wellington, ON
Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to extend the warmest congratulations to James Bartleman, who was appointed lieutenant-governor of Ontario a few weeks ago. His Honour, the Honourable James Bartleman, is the first aboriginal to be appointed to the post. He is a member of the Minjikanig First Nation.
Before being named lieutenant-governor, Mr. Bartleman was a senior member of the Canadian foreign service and held very senior posts in Cuba, Israel, South Africa and Australia. Most recently he led the Canadian mission to the European Union.
I ask members of the House to join me today in extending our congratulations to James Bartleman and to wish him luck in his endeavours as lieutenant-governor. We know he will serve Ontario and Canada with pride and distinction.
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
Is there anything more wonderful than making a dream come true, Mr. Speaker? That is what is now happening to François-Louis Tremblay, a 21 year old speed skater from Boucherville, who, for the very first time, has been named to Canada's olympic team going to Salt Lake City from February 8 to 24.
François-Louis Tremblay laced up his first skates at the tender age of 4. He already has an enviable record in his short but successful sporting career. He has developed an impeccable technique and a fluid style that allow him to compete against the best speed skaters in the world.
I would also like to mention another resident of Boucherville, Christian Messier, who will also be taking part in the games, not as an athlete, but as a physiotherapist. Everyone knows that an athlete's success is the result of their talent and training, but it also depends on the invaluable work of professional and skilled support staff.
Congratulations to them and to all of the athletes from Quebec and Canada who will be participating in the games in Salt Lake City. I wish you all the best.
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
Mr. Speaker, I would like to wish our troops well. They left Canada yesterday, and I wish them a safe return to their families.
I am proud to rise to pay tribute to Roméo Dallaire, who has received the first ever Aegis award presented by Britain's Beth Shalom Holocaust Centre. As a retired lieutenant general in the Canadian Forces, Mr. Dallaire epitomized Canadian values and devoted his heart, mind and soul to the attempt to ensure these values were reflected around the world.
As a commander of the UN forces in Rwanda in the mid 1990s Mr. Dallaire warned the world of the impending genocide and valiantly tried to prevent the deaths of 800,000 people. UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan applauded Mr. Dallaire's efforts. Roméo Dallaire is also a recipient of the Canadian government's Meritorious Service Cross.
I ask the House to join me in congratulation Mr. Dallaire for the humanitarian actions for which he has received the Aegis award.
Cheryl Gallant Canadian Alliance Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Mr. Speaker, Canadians bid farewell to the first troops of the 3rd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry and Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians), Edmonton; 2nd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, Winnipeg; and a mortar group from 1st Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, Shilo, Manitoba. They go with the best wishes and the goodwill of their fellow citizens.
It is my distinct pleasure to congratulate Brigadier General Ivan Fenton, commander of the land force being deployed to Afghanistan. General Fenton is well known to the people of Renfrew--Nipissing--Pembroke as a former base commander of CFB Petawawa.
To the families and loved ones of the soldiers who are either now on their way or preparing for departure overseas, we have a special expression of gratitude for the personal sacrifice we call upon them to make when duty calls.
We ask them to wear the Canadian patch on their shoulders proudly as they uphold the values and beliefs we all hold dear in the war against international terrorism.
Norman E. Doyle Progressive Conservative St. John's East, NL
Mr. Speaker, I wish to draw to the attention of the House the plight of a pregnant Nigerian mother of five children, Safiya Husseini, who has been condemned to death by stoning for having committed adultery. The man responsible for the pregnancy has been released without penalty because under Islamic shariah law practised in parts of Nigeria there must be four eyewitnesses to the act before he can be convicted of either adultery or rape.
Nigeria is a signatory to the UN convention against cruel or inhumane punishment. Surely being stoned to death for adultery is cruel and inhumane in the extreme.
I call upon the Government of Canada to intervene in the matter and make it clear to the government of Nigeria that such barbarity will not be condoned by the civilized world.
André Harvey Liberal Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Mr. Speaker, in 1995, the Canadian government declared that February would be Black History Month in Canada. This is an opportunity to pay tribute to black people for their economic, political, social and cultural contribution to humanity.
Throughout the month of February, Canadians can get to know better black people in our country and in the rest of the world. I am convinced that Canadians will appreciate the important contribution made by black people to our society.
It is my hope that new ties will develop between our various communities, through intercultural exchanges. Those who are receptive to other cultures always benefit from them.
Activities will take place across the country to mark Black History Month. Hopefully they will impact positively on the lives of Canadians throughout the year.
Minister of National DefenceOral Question Period
West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast B.C.
Canadian Alliance
John Reynolds Canadian AllianceLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, we now know that the Minister of National Defence has presented at least two versions of events to the House. However, there are still many unanswered questions about the minister's contradictions.
Yesterday the Deputy Prime Minister refused to answer straight questions about who knew what and when. Let me ask him again. Did the Department of National Defence inform the Prime Minister, PCO or the PMO of the handover of al-Qaeda captives to the Americans before this Monday, yes or no?
John Manley LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations
Mr. Speaker, I think that the Minister of National Defence did clarify all those timing issues yesterday in his statement in the House. He made it clear when he informed the Prime Minister and cabinet, which was Tuesday morning. There should be no further ambiguity about it.
Minister of National DefenceOral Question Period
West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast B.C.
Canadian Alliance
John Reynolds Canadian AllianceLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, it is so clear we have a question of privilege today. It has been recommended that the matter go to a committee because there are two versions.
We are left wondering why there is such confusion and cover-up on the other side. Is it just incompetence and indifference about our troops, or is this just an attempt to manage divisions within the Liberal caucus about treatment of prisoners by the United States?
John Manley LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations
Mr. Speaker, there is an hon. member who knows a lot about divisions in the caucus.
What is clear is that the Minister of National Defence made a clear statement to clarify what had happened and expressed his own regret.
What is more important is that Canadian troops are performing on the ground in Afghanistan tasks which they have been asked to do on behalf of the Canadian people in defence of freedom and against terrorism. They are doing it well and they deserve our support.
John Reynolds Canadian AllianceLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, our troops have our support 100%. I wish it were the same on the other side.
The minister has quite a nerve talking about divisions in caucus when six cabinet ministers have been fired, one has quit to go back to the rock and the women's caucus has been hammering at the Prime Minister every day.
On Monday the Prime Minister said that the capture of prisoners by Canadian troops was hypothetical. Seven days after, it was already a reality. Many Liberal members did not support the handing over of the prisoners or wanted al-Qaeda terrorists to be given the dignity of prisoners of war.
Did the Prime Minister call this hypothetical because he did not know, or because he did not want an embarrassing split in his own ranks about our troops' role in Afghanistan?
John Manley LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations
Mr. Speaker, the important point to understand is that the Canadian position has been consistent that the international laws of conflict apply. Therefore, the Geneva conventions apply. Canadian troops will respect international law and the Geneva conventions. That much is clear.
The issue that has arisen in some debate in the United States is the question of determination of whether individuals are prisoners of war. That is a recent issue that was raised in debate in the U.S. We are working with our allies to ensure that the issue is resolved consistent with international law.