House of Commons Hansard #158 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was provinces.

Topics

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

SupplyGovernment Orders

March 18th, 2002 / 6:05 p.m.

Bloc

Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would have liked to follow up on what my colleague of Châteauguay was saying, but we were somewhat interrupted by another debate. However, I would like to come back to the text of the motion proposed today. It says:

That this House acknowledge the existence of a fiscal imbalance—

It is quite obvious that our colleagues opposite do not want to acknowledge this fiscal imbalance, even though a few years ago at the premiers' meeting in Victoria, the veil had been lifted on this issue, even though the Romanow commission will certainly talk about a financial resource problem, about a lack of money, even though the Séguin commission, on which everyone in Quebec agreed, effectively acknowledged the existence of this imbalance, even though, at the Standing Committee on Finance the Canadian Medical Association came to tell us that there was a lack of money in health care and the Canadian Federation of Nurses Unions came to tell us that they had difficulties, despite all this it would seem there is a lack of will somewhere.

Of course I understand that the government wants to toe the line drawn by the Minister of Finance because it is in the same party, but the fact remains that there is a fiscal imbalance and one must be right in the field to really know the extent of it.

I was president of a local community health centre in Quebec from 1990 up until very recently. I was also vice-president of a regional board. One must have experienced all the changes in the health system and have gone from door to door, including to the federal, to be told that there is no money and that no more will be added, to understand the scope and consequences of this fiscal imbalance. I would like to talk about the consequences of this imbalance.

There is a fiscal imbalance in Quebec as in other provinces. I had the opportunity to travel to different places where there are no local community health centres. In New Brunswick, for instance, there are community centres providing certain services and health care. In Ontario, particularly among French-speaking communities, people specifically complain about the lack of services and say they should normally have more, but there is not enough money. The same applies to Alberta, where there are problems at the regional level.

The result is that our needs are badly covered. There is a lack of services. How does this translate? Take geriatric medicine. We know that the population is aging. How can we ensure a minimum of care in geriatric medicine when we do not have the money? When we raise this with the federal government it tells us to discuss it with the provinces. The federal government is also responsible for these people as they age.

How can the federal government not be responsible for children with reduced motor skills? How can people with intellectual disabilities be overlooked? How is it we can ignore psychosocial needs? That is the problem right now.

I also experienced all of the transformations in the health care system. I was there in 1990. When the Liberal Party, the current federal government, came to power and decided to download its debt on the backs of the provinces it created a monumental mess where every province was forced to turn on a dime and do reorganize their own health care systems in turn. The provinces are under tremendous pressure now. There is no fat left to trim. They have done what they had to do.

What is happening is that the federal government continues to keep the money that it said it was going to give us. It was temporary, I remember.

In health, I remember that the federal Minister of Health visited the regional health services board in my community. The minister said “We are asking you to get things in order. We are asking you to clean up shop, but only for a few years, the time we need to get the healthcare system back in shape”.

We did get things in order, but the budgets never came and the promises were never fulfilled. It is not surprising. I think it is like the bridges that we were promised at one time.

In Quebec we tried, and we are still trying, to establish a health care system that cannot be found elsewhere, that does not exist in the other provinces. It is a system of integrated services where we call on the services of all of the stakeholders in the system together. These integrated service systems ensure cohesive services in prevention and health promotion. We need money for this. It takes money in order to promote health.

When looking again at the consequences of the fiscal imbalance, we can see that it leads to a loss of efficiency. In Quebec, we have had to send people out of province to get medical care. I think it has also happening in other provinces, but we do not hear about it because it is embarrassing. Proper care could not be provided to there individuals. We did not have the technology. I know it has happened in British Columbia and Manitoba, where people were quietly sent to the United States to get medical care. Quebec is not the only one talking about a fiscal imbalance, and it is not the only one experiencing problems with the health care system.

At one point, the government opposite introduced a policy to let people know how lucky we were to have volunteers in Canada. These are community groups that are often dirt poor, whose staff are paid hardly anything. They have a hard time making ends meet. Were it not for these community groups, and these volunteers trying to provide services, how would these services be provided? Directors of regional boards have to set priorities. Who should have priority? Young people? Women? The handicapped? The elderly? What is a regional board to do when it is $80 million short in its budget? And the situation is the same in all regional boards, whether in the Saguenay region or in any other region in Quebec.

Francophones in Ontario have difficulty obtaining services. That is still a very real problem.

I have nothing against paying part of the debt, but we cannot create a new debt in the process. Canadians and Quebecers must not lose services just because the debt has to be paid down. Prevention is part of health services, and it is something we have to work at every day. Therefore, we have to invest in it.

I hope the government will at least admit that there is a fiscal imbalance and put extra money into health services.

I also hope that Quebecers who saw tonight how the Bloc is fighting to get the money needed will remember that at the next federal elections. I certainly hope that they will elect people who will truly represent them and that they will consider the fact that the Quebec government has done its utmost, in health, to turn the situation around, despite the cuts imposed by the federal government.

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Bloc

Jocelyne Girard-Bujold Bloc Jonquière, QC

Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate my colleague on her speech. I listened with great interest. What she said is true. It is true that there is an imbalance. The needs are in the provinces and the money is in the federal coffers.

In addition to what my colleague said, how should the government acknowledge this imbalance? How should it return the money to the provinces? Does she agree that it should not create any programs but those requested by the provinces and rather give the money back to the provinces?

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Bloc

Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Mr. Speaker, when I was the vice-chair of the Lanaudière Regional Health Board, as I said in my speech, the federal Minister of Health of the day came to visit us. We told him about our needs to meet the people's expectations.

He just hid behind his role as a minister and said “Yes, I will give you a little bit of money. I do not have much, but I will give you some”. He left without taking into account the priorities of the regional board. He visited various groups in the area and asked them to put a nice ad or a nice article in the paper saying that the Minister of Health had given them $10,000, $15,000, $60,000. For instance, he gave a hospital $55,000.

First, he interfered in an area under Quebec jurisdiction. Second, he did not pay any attention to the regional board's priorities or to the action plan that had taken us years to develop. This is scary. Such total lack of respect.

My colleague asked me what we could do. I think that the more I know the Canadian federal system, the more I realize that this lack of respect is blatant; it hurts me. Whenever I have a chance, I do not pretend otherwise, I tell my constituents, I tell my friends, and I tell everybody I know that, for Quebec, this system is no longer liveable. We must get out of it for the simple reason that we are being stifled.

As a Quebecer, I am being stifled. I am telling you, go and ask francophones outside Quebec, go and ask people in Alberta. I have relatives in Manitoba, and they are telling me exactly the same thing. We must leave this system.

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in this debate because I am one of those people who believe that there is a role for a Government of Canada that can take a view of this country from coast to coast to coast of where this country is and the goals that we can reach.

When I hear claims of fiscal imbalance I must ask that we look at the realities of life in Canada. We must look at how Canada is dealing with the issues of importance to its prosperity and to the inclusion of all citizens, now and in the future. With that in mind I want to comment on the Government of Canada's role in post-secondary education.

Why does post-secondary education matter so much in terms of public policy? The work that takes place in our universities and colleges in all its diversity is essential to Canada's innovation strategy. This is true in terms of the research and development that any advanced country needs.

Indeed the Government of Canada has a long tradition of supporting research that is such an important part of the work of our post-secondary system. During the 2000-01 fiscal year the overall federal investment in research was valued at more than $4.5 billion if we include both the value of spending and tax measures to support this research. Currently in cabinet committee we are looking at how that money is distributed. I am constantly making the point to witnesses that we would like more of that money spent in the north on northern research, and I continue to make that point.

However, our colleges and universities are also important in providing skills and learning to individual Canadians. That is as true for individuals doing the classroom work they need for an apprenticeship in a skill trade as it is for someone doing doctoral work in computer science.

Let us be clear that Canada needs both sets of skills. We need a post-secondary system with a capacity to help Canadians gain that full range of skills. Those skills do not just matter to individuals; they matter to Canada too. The knowledge-based economy of our era, and the skills and knowledge of individuals lead to innovation and ensures Canada's ongoing economic competitiveness.

The Government of Canada's commitment to skills and learning is about ensuring that individual Canadians can drive economic development and can fully participate in it and benefit from it. It is essential that our post-secondary system have the resources to do its important work. The Government of Canada helps to provide those resources through many vehicles with the full recognition that education is a provincial and territorial responsibility.

The most important means that our government invests in post-secondary education is through the Canada Health and Social Transfer, the CHST. It is worth reminding the House that budget 2000 provided a $2.5 billion increase in the CHST. That marked the fourth consecutive federal enhancement to the transfer. Does that money matter? Of course it does. During this fiscal year alone the value of the CHST to the provinces and territories would reach an all time high of $34 billion with a significant portion of that money going into our colleges and universities.

However, federal support is about more than investment in the system. It is about direct investment in people. In February 2002 the Government of Canada announced its innovation strategy. Investments in people, skills, and learning for Canada would be a centrepiece of that innovation strategy.

There is a clear and compelling case for action. For example, by 2004 70% of new jobs would require some form of post-secondary education. Most of those new jobs would require a university degree, a college diploma or an apprenticeship certification for a skilled trade. Fully a quarter of all new jobs created by 2004 would require a university degree. Fortunately, while there is much to be done, we have a strong base on which to act.

Of all the countries in the world Canada has the highest proportion of people with post-secondary education in its working age population. This did not just happen. It was the result of years of public policy choices that have the strong support of Canadians.

Canadians recognize that our success as a nation has come not only from strong growth but also from an abiding commitment to strong values and assistance on the equitable sharing of the benefits of economic growth.

For years we have chosen to expand access to post-secondary education. The Government of Canada has developed a range of programs and services that help students reach their education goals. Under the LIberal government those programs and services have expanded both in number and in reach.

In every budget since 1997 the Government of Canada has made important investments in post-secondary education. These include the Canada millennium scholarship bursaries which pays out $285 million a year in non-repayable scholarships to close to 95,000 students across Canada. The enhanced Canada study grants go to 65,000 students and are worth close to $85 million in non-repayable support. Enhanced interest relief worth over $110 million a year benefits 125,000 students who are in the process of repaying their student loans.

The best known federal program supporting access to post-secondary education is the Canada student loans program. For the 2000-01 fiscal year alone the Canada student loans program helped about 350,000 students with loans that were worth $1.6 billion.

In the context of this debate it is particularly important to point out that the Government of Canada has built this program in a way that reflects our commitment to flexible federalism with the focus on results. One example of that is the fact that students from Quebec, the Northwest Territories and Nunavut do not take part in the CSLP. Instead, the program has been structured so that those governments get funding from the Government of Canada for their own equivalent student loans programs.

Of course the government has introduced other improvements that are designed to enhance access to post-secondary education, especially for students of low and middle income families and for students facing other barriers such as those with disabilities. The Canadian millennium scholarships are a good example of this. In 2000-01 some 95,000 Canadian students with financial need received Canadian millennium scholarships averaging $3,000 per student.

In the context of this debate, it is important to point out that the Canadian Millennium Scholarship Foundation has development agreements with the governments of all the provinces and territories on the delivery of scholarships to students.

Since 1995 the Government of Canada has offered non-repayable Canada study grants to students in specific kinds of situations, to high needs students, those with disabilities, part time students, to women in some doctoral programs and to students with dependants. In December 2001 the federal government announced $10 million to increase the Canada study grants for disabled students to help accommodate their expenses associated with post-secondary education.

The government is not just looking at today's college and university students. It is interested in paving the way for tomorrow as well. For that reason the government brought in the Canada education savings grant which provides a grant of up to $400 a year for children who are beneficiaries of a registered education savings plan.

To date over $1 billion in grants has been paid toward the future post-secondary education of 1.5 million of our youngest Canadians. Canadians are not too concerned about so-called imbalances between one government and another.

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

It being 6.27 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the business of supply.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

SupplyGovernment Orders

6:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Pursuant to order made earlier today the recorded division is deferred until Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at the end of the period provided for government orders.

The House resumed from March 15 consideration of the motion that Bill C-49, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in parliament on December 10, 2001, be read the third time and passed.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at third reading stage of Bill C-49.

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Budget Implementation Act, 2001Government Orders

6:55 p.m.

The Speaker

I declare the motion carried.

(Bill read the third time and passed)

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001Adjournment Proceedings

6:55 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Bill Casey Progressive Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Mr. Speaker, on November 19, 2001, I asked a question of the Minister of Foreign Affairs about an amendment he might consider which would provide information in the form of an annual report to parliament on offenders who claimed immunity under Bill C-35 which has been expanded to include a whole new category of foreigners under the immunity act.

The minister did not agree to do this. He refused the request despite the fact recent circumstances have proven we need access to the information. It is a matter of public safety, a matter of safety to Canadians, that we know who is using the immunity protection for diplomats. With this new expanded coverage for immunity it is even more important than ever.

The refusal of the request is typical of the Liberal government. It is consistent with the refusal to provide information to parliament, limiting access to information under the guise of security issues and security concerns, the refusal to provide ministers' budgets, and so on. It is very consistent that the government refuses to give parliament and Canadians the information we need simply to protect ourselves.

A Russian diplomat is on trial in Russia at this moment for a terrible offence in this country that could have been prevented had the information been made available which we are asking to have available now. This information was completely ignored by the authorities. We knew that the Russian diplomat had a bad track record of driving while under the influence and it was ignored. It was not available to us. All we are asking now is that this information be made available to parliament once a year so that we can know how to protect ourselves if there is a dangerous situation.

Once again, will the minister provide parliament with an annual report on those who file for immunity under the diplomatic immunity process?

Budget Implementation Act, 2001Adjournment Proceedings

7 p.m.

Waterloo—Wellington Ontario

Liberal

Lynn Myers LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Solicitor General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Cumberland--Colchester proposes that Bill C-35 be amended to require the Minister of Foreign Affairs to report every six months to both Houses on the criminal and civil immunity of foreign diplomats in Canada.

Following the tragic events involving Catherine MacLean and Catherine Doré, the government adopted a zero tolerance policy toward impaired driving, sending a strong signal that impaired driving will not be tolerated in this country. The government took a number of steps, including contact with police authorities and meetings with representatives of the diplomatic community to ensure that the government's zero policy, zero tolerance policy, for serious crimes was understood and implemented.

The policy of zero tolerance and the consequences are firm. The department will suspend a diplomat's driving privileges even where charges are not laid by police. In most cases a first offence will result in a one year suspension of the licence. A second offence or a first involving death or injury will result in the diplomat's recall or expulsion.

The government has already put in place a policy of careful monitoring and record keeping on foreign diplomatic behaviour amounting to alleged criminal misconduct. The chief of protocol in the Department of Foreign Affairs has been instructed to prepared a detailed quarterly report on diplomatic misbehaviour to the department's deputy minister. These quarterly reports are available under the Access to Information Act to any member of the public. In releasing the quarterly reports we have to adhere to privacy considerations under the Privacy Act. Once the reports have been released under an access request they are made available to the public on request.

I would like to point out that the minister takes very seriously his commitment to the people of Canada to strengthen the procedures responding to incidents of foreign diplomatic misbehaviour. That is why a policy of frequent reporting requiring not annual or biannual reporting but rather quarterly reports has in fact been implemented. As these reports are being made available to the public there should be no reason to question the transparency of the policy.

This system of reporting would be duplicated by a statutory requirement to make reports. This issue was raised in committee, and the committees of both the House and the Senate accepted the view of the government that such a statutory reporting requirement would not add to the system already in place. A statutory reporting requirement, then, is neither necessary nor appropriate for every government function. Such a requirement is not necessary in this case.

As noted in committee, the system in place provides for quarterly reporting on alleged criminal misconduct. While the Department of Foreign Affairs can expect to be notified by the police of any alleged criminal activity by foreign representatives, there is no guarantee that the department would be made aware of a civil action involving a diplomat if the status of the diplomat is not contested. For this reason, the hon. member's suggestion of reporting on the civil actions involving a foreign diplomat would then not be practical. I would submit that this being the government position it is a credible one and worth supporting.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001Adjournment Proceedings

7 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Bill Casey Progressive Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Mr. Speaker, it was perhaps a Freudian slip when the parliamentary secretary said that there was zero policy. In any case, it is not a zero policy. It is a policy. My complaint is that it is a policy of the government to have these quarterly reports. We are asking that it be legislated. Policies can be changed with the snap of a finger. If the government does not like what is happening, it will just change the policy and we will never even know it has changed the policy. We in the House want this in legislation so we know we will have an annual report.

This goes back to the ethics counsellor, who was supposed to report to parliament. In the red book it is very clear. In the red book promises of the Liberals they said we would have an ethics counsellor who reports to parliament. They have changed that. They have a new policy now. The ethics counsellor reports to the Prime Minister.

We want this report made to parliament. We do not want a policy. We want it legislated so we know that we can count on having this access to information. This is a matter of public safety for Canadians. If this information is available to all of us then we can insist that the right steps are taken to ensure that dangerous driving and other actions that are inappropriate or present a danger to Canadians can be restricted or some action can be taken. By this policy, in refusing to bring this to parliament, it denies us access and prevents us from doing our job, so once again I ask the parliamentary secretary to change his mind, put this into legislation and demand that this be an annual report to parliament.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001Adjournment Proceedings

7 p.m.

Liberal

Lynn Myers Liberal Waterloo—Wellington, ON

Mr. Speaker, as I said before, both the committees of the House and the Senate as well looked into this very important matter. It was agreed to in fact proceed in this manner and that in fact there is zero tolerance when it comes to this kind of behaviour.

I would hope that the hon. member is not by implication trying to say that there is all kinds of misbehaviour and criminal activity by foreign diplomats in our area who are seeking immunity, because that is not the case. In the last five year period, less than 1% has been involved in that kind of activity. We do not want to get carried away here and make those kinds of implications. Based on the facts about Ms. MacLean and Ms. Doré and the problems as a result of what happened, we want to make sure there is a policy in place that underscores zero tolerance, because that is precisely the position of our government.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001Adjournment Proceedings

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Libby Davies NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, as the federal New Democrat spokesperson for post-secondary education I bring forward to the House the urgency of the crisis facing Canada's post-secondary educational system. I also bring forward shocking evidence that the federal government is not only ignoring the crisis but exacerbating it by its own decisions.

In recent weeks there have been a number of developments that are destroying an already fragile system. First, the federal government's student debt reduction program is a failure. The finance minister said it would help 12,000 students each year but in the last year it missed its target by a whopping 96%.

Second, the long awaited innovation strategy, rather than offering concrete proposals to improve accessibility and funding for post-secondary education, is accelerating a dangerous slide toward the commercialization of university research.

Third, StatsCan reports show students from high income families are two and a half times more likely than low income students to attend university. This is clearly due to the retreat of federal and provincial public funding.

Fourth, in my home province of B.C. the situation is devastating. Gordon Campbell's deregulation of tuition fees, elimination of grants for first year students and staggering tuition fee increases of up to 300% are creating chaos and fear. Summer McFadyen, chair of the B.C. Federation of Students, has described the situation as students’ “worst fears come true.”

Where does this leave us? The federal government's decisions coupled with provincial cuts are having an unprecedented impact on students. We are facing the lowest levels of federal funding for post-secondary education in more than 30 years, yet ironically the federal government is crowing about the importance of higher education in today's competitive world. Under the Liberal regime it seems only the rich can afford to compete.

It is not as though Canadians do not care about or understand the importance of accessible and publicly funded post-secondary education. A recent poll by the Canadian Association of University Teachers shows 70% of Canadians believe the federal government is not doing enough to support post-secondary education, and 75% of Canadians are in favour of Ottawa establishing national standards based on accessibility and not for profit administration.

We in the NDP have long advocated these policies but our system will continue to deteriorate unless critical action is taken. Three key things need to be done. First, we must establish national standards that spell out clear objectives for accessibility for all students.

Second, we need to take immediate measures to reduce student debt load, roll back tuition, freeze fees and institute a national grants program.

Third, the federal government must develop a clear mandate for publicly administering post-secondary education and halting the privatization and commercialization of research programs and curriculum development. For profit degree granting institutions should be banned.

Taking these actions would send a clear message that Canada recognized education as an important social and economic investment. The measure of an enlightened, democratic and civil society is found in its recognition of education as a human right. Such a society recognizes the worth and dignity of all individuals and allows them to reach their potential. It recognizes that the pursuit of the highest quality of public education serves all of society.

Why then is the federal government forfeiting its responsibility at a time when support and leadership are desperately needed?

Budget Implementation Act, 2001Adjournment Proceedings

7:10 p.m.

Beauharnois—Salaberry Québec

Liberal

Serge Marcil LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Industry

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada has been trying for a long time to provide Canadians with an equal access to advanced studies, and I am happy to announce that our strategy is working. In comparison to other countries, Canada can boast of having the most people old enough to work with a post-secondary education.

It has committed to ensuring that all Canadians eligible for post-secondary education have access to it. It provides financial aid to students through many programs allowing low income families to overcome the financial difficulties they often have to cope with.

Initiatives such as the Canada student loans program, the Canada millennium scholarship fund, Canada study grants and Canada education savings grants were created to help learners from low income families overcome the financial obstacles they are often faced with.

The main mechanism used by the government to invest in post-secondary education is the Canada health and social transfer, the CHST. For the current fiscal year alone the total value of the CHST to provinces will reach an all-time high of around $34 billion, most of the money going to colleges and universities.

The Canada student loans program provides financial support to eligible students who want to pursue post-secondary education. This is the most important financial assistance program for students in Canada and has handed out $1.6 billion to some 350,000 students during the current fiscal year.

The Government of Canada has created the Canada millennium scholarships to improve access to post-secondary education, especially for students from lower and middle income families. In the 2000-2001 academic year, millennium scholarships were granted to close to 95,000 disadvantaged Canadian students, for an average of $3,000 per student. As stipulated in its mandate, the Canada Millennium Scholarship Foundation negotiated agreements with the provinces and the territories to ensure they handed out the scholarships to the students.

The Canada education savings grant is helping Canadian families save over the long term for their children's post-secondary education through a grant of 20% of their contributions to a registered education savings plan.

Up to now, about 1.5 million grants have been awarded for a total of $1 billion. All Canadian children are admissible, regardless of family income. The Canada education savings grant is the equivalent of 20% of the first $2,000 an individual's annual contributions. It means that this grant can be as high as $400 a year per child. Over the years, it could reach a total of $7,200. Even smaller contributions add up in the long run. It is never too early to start saving.

Since 1995 the Canadian government has been giving nonrefundable financial assistance to students in need through the Canada study grants. During 1999-2000, almost 65,000 Canada study grants have been given to handicapped students, part-time students in need, women who study at the doctorate level and students with dependants.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001Adjournment Proceedings

7:10 p.m.

NDP

Libby Davies NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, I feel like we are speaking about two different realities here. I listened very carefully to what the parliamentary secretary had to say. I take issue with what is being put forward here tonight.

When he speaks about the Canadian health and social transfer as being the main mechanism from the federal government to support post-secondary education, let us be very clear that there are absolutely no strings attached to that money. There is no way to ensure that those funds actually go toward post-secondary education. There is no way to ensure that those funds are actually used to help students lower their student debt load.

The same is true of the millennium fund. The reality is the millennium fund helps less than 2% of students in the country. I am glad it is there but it is a very small program. It is completely contrary to what is being called for by universities, colleges and student organizations that want to see a national grants program.

While I appreciate that the government did make some changes in tax deductions for families, that does not help low income students.

Budget Implementation Act, 2001Adjournment Proceedings

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

Serge Marcil Liberal Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Mr. Speaker, on top of the measures I just spoke about, such as the education savings grant program, we also dealt with the debt management of young students.

There is a tax exemption for interest on student loans: $42 million in tax credits in 2000; interest relief for a greater number of graduates: $107.4 million in 2000-01; an extended payback period for those who need it: 29,000 persons benefited from it since 1998; and debt reduction for borrowers having financial difficulties: $2 million in 2000-01.

As I said before, we also implemented the millennium scholarships to increase non-refundable grants to students.

I doubt any government ever did as much for post-secondary education to help doctoral students and others.