Debates of April 10th, 2002

Middle East

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, first, I would like to start by congratulating my hon. colleague on taking up his new portfolio. As we say during elections, I wish him best of luck in his portfolio.

This is an extremely important question. I made the point yesterday that our interest in Canada is to ensure that we have a dialogue with those who can help in the peace process. There is a dimension of Hezbollah which works on social issues and which has a political dimension with whom we will work, just as in the darkest days the British worked with Sinn Fein and ignored the IRA

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. minister did not answer the question, which is customary. Contrary to the minister's claims, Hezbollah has been operating in Canada for years. In 1997 another terrorist, Hani al-Sayegh, was arrested in Canada on charges related to the bombing of the US military barracks in Saudi Arabia. Members of Hezbollah already in Canada assisted this terrorist while he was here in Canada.

Will the minister please acknowledge that there is no difference between the civilian arm of Hezbollah and the military arm and ban all activities by Hezbollah in Canada?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I will not acknowledge that for the pure purpose of the political expediency of the party opposite. If the party opposite has evidence of criminal activities in this country by people, let it take it to the solicitor general and to the mounted police. Let criminal activity be dealt with as criminal matters and let us get on with the business of the politics of achieving peace in the Middle East.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the German Minister of Foreign Affairs has developed a peace plan for the Middle East. This plan, which is supported by the United States and the European Union, among others, proposes, like the Bloc Quebecois did yesterday, to send an implementation force and to hold an international conference. These are possible solutions that, yesterday, the Minister of Foreign Affairs deemed premature.

Since the minister had a chance to sleep on it, and considering that we must act without delay, could the minister tell us if he now supports the German peace plan for the Middle East?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I said yesterday, for the time being, we support the peace plan pursued by Mr. Powell in the Middle East. We will do our best to support the efforts of the United States in this respect.

I believe the Europeans are also making similar efforts. Canada will work with the Europeans and with the Americans to try to end the violence in the region, so that peace talks can continue.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is somewhat surprising to hear the minister tell us that he supports the Powell plan, because there is still no Powell plan. The minister is telling us that he is following the United States, even when he does not know what the United States has decided to do.

[An hon. member]

This is unbelievable.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Let us be a little more serious. There is a plan, the German plan, which is supported, among others, by the United States. I must conclude that the minister should support this plan, considering that the United States supports it and that he blindly follows them.

Does the minister support the German plan, which is supported by the European Union and the United States? It is clear. Not the Powell plan, because it does not exist and it would be a hypothetical question. I am asking a real question. Let the minister answer.

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is somewhat unfortunate that this is oral question period. Yesterday evening, we had a debate in the House, during which all the members tried, in a spirit of co-operation, to find ways through which Canadians could promote peace. This is what we are trying to do. I hope that our other opponents will do the same.

As the Deputy Prime Minister just told the House, as the Prime Minister said and as we are saying, should the time come to send Canadian troops in the region we will do our best. But for the time being, let Mr. Powell do his best and let us support his efforts.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the situation in the Middle East is growing worse. Each day brings a sad procession of more death, injury and destruction.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs tells us that we must go along with U.S. policy, that an interposition force cannot be sent in without the agreement of the parties.

Does he realize that going along with such a policy would have the two parties involved calling the shots rather than the international community?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Mercier, who is very knowledgeable about foreign affairs, is well aware that when it comes to a peace process, the brokers of peace will do their work when the parties have agreed to their presence.

That is where Canada can still do its best. That is where we will be. Right now, our focus is on getting the parties to be receptive to peace. That is what needs to be done right now.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Foreign Affairs knows his job very well. He is well aware that under chapter 6, there must indeed be agreement for a peacekeeping force but that, under chapter 7, agreement is not required for an interposition force.

How many more deaths and how much more destruction will it take to convince the minister and the government that they should consider sending an interposition force to the Middle East, as many are now saying in Europe and others are thinking?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, if I understood the question correctly, the Bloc Quebecois is proposing that Canadians invade the Middle East.

That is an interesting idea, but I think that it would be irresponsible of us. We, as Canadians, are there to support the peace; when the parties are ready, that is what we will do. We are always there for that. But to intervene otherwise would be more than risky and would not, I think, advance the necessary peace process.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that every member of the House joins me in condemning today's terrorist attack on bus passengers in Haifa. It underscores the urgency of creating the legal institutions capable of fighting terrorism.

Tomorrow the international criminal court will be officially established with more than 60 countries finally having ratified. Tragically, the United States is not among them.

What is the government doing to press the United States to act responsibly and ratify the international criminal court?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I totally accept the premise of the question. We agree that the establishment of the international criminal court, in which Canada takes great pride for having been one of the leaders in forming, has been weakened by the absence of the United States.

We have always urged our American colleagues, through the administration and through Canada-U.S. parliamentary groups, which have good contacts in the United States, that they should ratify and become a member of the international legal community where they can bring their force and their sense of law so the world law will be better served. We will continue to do that.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the foreign affairs minister takes great pride in Canada's role in creating the international criminal court. He talks about how important multilateral institutions are but he is remarkably reluctant to press the United States to live up to its international obligations to support the international criminal court.

When it comes to supporting internationalism, the government is two-faced. When 44 member nations of the UN human rights commission recently voted to send a fact finding mission to the Middle East, Canada joined with Guatemala to be one of only two countries opposing this crucial initiative.

Does the government consider that pathetic display as leadership on--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs.

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the object of leadership obviously is to be attacked on all sides and we seem to have been able to achieve that in this event.

We strongly believe that the position we took in Geneva, which was directed toward achieving peace, that it was inappropriate in those circumstances for the international human rights commission to be engaged in a process in which we had mandated the security council to find peace. That resolution was totally directed against Israel. It was unbalanced and unfair and we Canadians will stand up always to support that--

[The Speaker]

The right hon. member for Calgary Centre.

Fisheries and Oceans

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of fisheries wants to wait until the NAFO meeting in September before he starts to deal seriously with overfishing in the Grand Banks.

How many more fish plants have to close before he acts?

I have two simple questions for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. First, is Canada preparing new proposals on a NAFO enforcement system with teeth? Second, is there a formal committee of officials working with other NAFO members to get support for new enforcement measures with teeth?

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by reassuring the hon. member that representatives of the Government of Canada are constantly in communication with representatives of NAFO to ensure that the necessary regulations are being implemented in order to protect Canada's fishery resources.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that requires initiative on the part of Canada, and this government has not shown any such initiative.

The minister pretends he is acting when he closes ports. These foreign ships just move on to other ports such as to St. Pierre and Miquelon.

I have two specific questions for that minister. Will Canada demand a lifetime ban on captains and ships that overfish and will Canada demand that quotas are taken away from countries that overfish?

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question and congratulate him for his courage to be here in the House today.

As a former member from Nova Scotia, I welcome him to return to save Atlantic Canada. For the last year he has been going on about every issue nationally but never once on Atlantic Canada issues.

I extend a welcome to the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party.

National Defence

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the equipment crisis in our military is so bad that the auditor general said “Hard choices may have to be made. Force reductions and reduced military readiness are possibilities”.

Is this how the cabinet interprets hard choices: buying more brand new luxury jets for itself?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the purchase of those Challenger jets will in no way detract from the equipment purchases for the Canadian forces. The funds will be reimbursed from the centre. The forces will continue to be able to operate the same programs and services. In the last four budgets there has been an increase in the Canadian forces budget by some 20%. Over $5 billion will continue to be put into the Canadian forces to help increase equipment purchases and support the training of our troops over the next five years.