Debates of April 24th, 2002

Microbreweries

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, she kept that advice to herself until the process was over without telling a soul.

Now that we know that the husband of the finance committee chair is not only one of the seven directors of the John Labatt Company, but that he also chairs the taxation committee of the Brewers Association of Canada, that he is the one who conspired with his wife and the Minister of Finance to exclude beer from Bill C-47, what does the government intend to do to correct this deplorable situation, support the microbreweries and end the scheming between the large breweries, the Minister of Finance and the member for London West?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, as the law officers of the House pointed out, Bill C-47 does not in any way deal with the beer industry. Accordingly, there is no possible conflict of interest between the chair of the committee and the beer industry.

As the secretary of state has pointed out, the matter of the excise taxes in relation to beer is being considered in an entirely different forum in which, in fact, the chair of the finance committee is not involved.

Leadership Campaigns

[Randy White, Canadian Alliance, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the important difference between someone in opposition or a Liberal backbencher running for leadership and a minister running for leadership is that they do not have access to public funds like the minister has. If we have to explain that to the government the country has a big problem.

The Toronto fundraiser for the minister of heritage has publicly said he is trying to raise $7 million for her leadership bid. At the same time, this individual has received over $1 million for the organization from Heritage Canada. I want to know from the minister of heritage how she is going to break the ties between her department--

[The Speaker]

The right hon. Prime Minister.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that accusation is not factual. No wonder people do not believe in the integrity of the members of parliament. Again I want to repeat that this is a volunteer who is working for a volunteer organization, who is trying to do something good for the citizens of Toronto. To make a link like that, making accusations, I can understand that with that type of mentality they will have no problem with future conflicts of interest because they will never be on this side.

[Randy White, Canadian Alliance, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will tell you about mentality. Seventy per cent of Canadians think the government is corrupt and I happen to think that too.

The minister gives this guy's group $1 million and he says he is going to raise $7 million for the minister of heritage. That is a great return on investment. The problem is, it is taxpayers' money. What I want to know is how she is going to break the ties between her department and her leadership bid because that is public money she is giving away.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, they always use the word corruption, about anything. They should have the guts to make an accusation and prove that the minister has a conflict of interest.

What they do is just throw mud which hurts all members of parliament. Perhaps the hon. member should read the statement made by the leader of the Bloc Quebecois, who said that type of frivolous accusation reflects on all members of parliament, including those who do it.

Microbreweries

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. We want to hear the hon. member for Roberval.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Here is the situation.

On the advice of the chair of the taxation committee of the Brewers Association of Canada, who happens to be her husband, the chair of the Standing Committee on Finance is recommending to the Minister of Finance, in whose riding the John Labatt company is located, not to lower the tax imposed on microbreweries.

Will the Prime Minister admit that his government is in a tight spot and that microbreweries have very little chance of being treated fairly in such a context?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons clearly indicated that this issue is not included in the bill.

Also, the hon. member involved met with House of Commons lawyers to get an opinion on her status regarding this matter. Moreover, it is not just the hon. member's report, but the report of all the committee members.

Why target an hon. member when the recommendation was made by all the members of the committee? Why tarnish someone's reputation with unfounded accusations?

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is going way too far when he says that our accusations are unfounded. The husband of the committee chair is himself the chair of the brewers' taxation committee. He lobbies for brewers. She listens to him, she follows his instructions and she refuses to include microbreweries in the bill.

And the Prime Minister has the nerve to say that this is an unfounded accusation. Generally speaking, husbands and wives do get along, and the hon. member showed us that she gets along very well with her brewer husband.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I thought we were no longer living in the 19th century. I think that a woman can serve parliament, while her husband can earn a living honestly outside parliament.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I know that the hon. member already regrets what he said.

[An hon. member]

Talk about patronage.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

Government Expenditures

[Charlie Penson, Canadian Alliance, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadian businesses are concerned about the unchecked Liberal spending. Yesterday at the first prebudget hearing--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. It is impossible to hear the hon. member. We are wasting time and there will not be enough time for the other questions if the noise does not stop. Order, please.

The hon. member for Peace River has the floor. We will want to hear the hon. member.

[Charlie Penson, Canadian Alliance, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadian business groups are concerned about the unchecked Liberal spending. Yesterday at the first prebudget hearing they reminded the finance committee that spending on government programs grew by more than 24% since 1997.

The Minister of Finance has said that government spending should be kept in line with inflation and population growth. That is a great concept, but what happened to the minister's promise? Where is it?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the member picks one year. He should look at when we started. We were spending $121 billion. Eight years after that we were back at the level we were when we started. It is the way that we have managed here on this side as the government to balance the books and have surpluses.

[Charlie Penson, Canadian Alliance, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if we recall, I think the debt is about $36 billion more than when they started in 1993.

Canadian business representatives call for elimination of the capital tax, an accelerated capital cost allowance and a reduction in corporate tax rates to 17%; I would remind you, Mr. Speaker, 17%.

When is the Minister of Finance going to develop sound fiscal policy that will give our Canadian business community a competitive tax advantage for a change?