Debates of May 24th, 2002

National Drinking Water Standards

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Pictou--Antigonish--Guysborough.

Government Contracts

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday we asked the Prime Minister if he knew of any other ministers who had vacationed on the mounting Everest tab. He told us we were on a fishing expedition. It looks like we needed a bigger net. We found that the immigration minister also stayed at a Boulay condo in 1997.

Palais Boulay pyjama parties aside, these ministerial sleepovers have got to stop.

The Prime Minister avoided this question yesterday. Could the Deputy Prime Minister confirm how many members of his cabinet bedded down with the Boulays, who were benefactors and beneficiaries of his government?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to hear the question. It implies that the member is going to be supportive of the Prime Minister's announcement that standards need to be introduced not just for ministers but for members of parliament and members of the Senate as well because the incident that he refers to occurred when the member was not a minister, not a member of the cabinet at all.

High standards are important for all of us. That requires therefore that we all consider what standards we want to live with that will meet the test of public expectation.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of immigration was formerly employed by Groupe Polygone. That same group received millions of dollars from the federal sponsorship program.

That same minister admits in a media report that during his time as sports minister he “pushed all the time” for federal sponsorship. Sponsorship contracts more than doubled during his tenure. A large majority of these sponsorships were handled by Groupe Everest, a company that the minister bunked with for a few weeks.

With this growing epidemic of cabinet conflicts and cozy contracts, does the Deputy Prime Minister not, in keeping with the Prime Minister's initiative yesterday--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I really think the hon. member has gone way too far with this, trying to impugn the actions of a member when the member was not even a member of cabinet.

Members of parliament also have a right to a personal life. We will look at the appropriate code for members and for senators in the months to come. He needs to be looking himself at just exactly how much of his life he wants to continue to put on public display.

Ethical Standards

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in a letter that Mr. Gavsie writes in order to raise money for the Deputy Prime Minister to replace the Prime Minister, and I guess he is like a lot of Canadians, he is waiting for a change at the top, he said:

On the other hand, some businesses may, at their own risk, decide to write off these contributions for tax purposes as a business expense.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. Does he consider it an appropriate tax write-off for businesses to influence cabinet ministers who are running for leadership when these same cabinet ministers are often giving them government contracts?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, as Minister of National Revenue with responsibility for tax administration, I want to assure the hon. member that everyone is expected to obey the law. If there are any questions about inappropriate tax expenditures, my department investigates them all appropriately.

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, what the minister does not understand is that government members keep saying that ethics and legality are somehow synonymous. They are not. Ethics and legality are very different things. In fact, we should try to live not just at the status of the law but above the law and live at a higher standard.

Alfonso Gagliano failed that standard. The current Minister of Public Works and Government Services is failing that standard. Now it appears that the Deputy Prime Minister is not living up to the higher ethical standard that the Liberal government said that it was elected to impose.

Why will the government not put in real laws that will finally give Canadians a reason to think that politics are not corrupt and lower that number of Canadians from 70% down to about one half of 1% who thinks this place is corrupt?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, let me say very clearly that although I used to give people tax advice and I was paid a good deal more to do that then than I am now, I do not do it any more. First, I do not condone the notion that people should try to deduct expenditures that do not fit in the appropriate categories. That is not acceptable and I want to make that clear.

Second, the test here is really transparency and openness. I call upon the Alliance Party to meet that test as well, the test for example with respect to its own recent leadership campaign.

Government Contracts

[Odina Desrochers, Bloc, Lotbinière—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with time, the circle of Liberals involved broadens and business relationships grow stronger.

Not only is the minister of public works involved, but the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, with his cozy relationship with Groupe Everest, the Minister of Justice, leadership contenders, including the Deputy Prime Minister and his fundraisers, who benefit from government contracts. Basically, it is a fine patronage network.

Does the government understand that only a public inquiry will allow us to get to the bottom of this fine Liberal network?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, these are baseless allegations. Once again they are making allegations without having the facts.

It is unacceptable to criticize the reputations of people who are in public life to do the best job possible for the Canadian population. By their criticism, they are implicating all members of parliament.

The issue here is not about ministerial ethics, but instead, exaggeration by the members of the opposition.

[Odina Desrochers, Bloc, Lotbinière—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister can try as he will to cover up his government's reprehensible acts by diverting our attention with measures to fight corruption, but people will not be fooled.

Does the Deputy Prime Minister understand that a public inquiry is not only necessary, but imperative to rebuild public trust in democratic institutions and the people who represent them?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, I do not understand why the member does not think that the efforts of the auditor general are sufficient.

She has the ability to consider every aspect of the issues involved. She also has the ability to refer the matter, if necessary, to the police. This is truly sufficient.

In any case, it is important to consider the proposal, the eight points that the Prime Minister already laid out yesterday to help—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Crowfoot.

Correctional Service Canada

[Kevin Sorenson, Canadian Alliance, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the solicitor general stated on more than one occasion that incentive payments, some as high as $700 a week, made by CORCAN to federal inmates was a one shot deal and that Correctional Service Canada said it would never happen again.

We have now learned that in the last fiscal year close to $2 million, $1.79 million, was paid for incentive allowances. It does not sound like a one shot deal from here.

We have asked the solicitor general time and time again and we ask him this again today. How many federal inmates have received incentive payments?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague asked a specific question previously on one situation and the fact was that about $700 was paid, and that was in one institution. Correctional Service Canada is evaluating the situation to ensure that this does not happen again.

[Kevin Sorenson, Canadian Alliance, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the solicitor general says that $700 was paid in one institution. It was $700 per inmate in one institution that received the incentive payment.

[An hon. member]

Per week.

[Kevin Sorenson, Canadian Alliance, Crowfoot, AB]

Yes, per week.

A response like that is absolutely pathetic. The response from Correctional Service Canada is not much better. We ask officials and they say that such information is not readily available.

Will the solicitor general finally come clean and answer the question? How many inmates received incentive payments and how much?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, in Correctional Service Canada we have of course punishment for the crime and then rehabilitation. It is an incentive program of course in place to ensure that the people who are trying to be rehabilitated have some incentive.

The fact of the matter in the case that my hon. colleague brought up was correct. It was inappropriate. It was too much. I indicated that previously. I indicated that Correctional Service Canada said it would not happen again. It is evaluating the situation to ensure that it does not happen again.

Government Contracts

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Prime Minister said that he had learned in his first year of law school over 40 years ago that, when someone signed a cheque, payment was made, legally speaking.

After my three years of law and bar admission courses, I know that, under Quebec civil law, payment has been made when a cheque is honoured by the bank. As a reference, the minister may consult page 500 of Traité des obligations by professor Jean-Louis Beaudoin.

Given that the rent was paid two months after the minister's stay at the cottage owned by the president of Everest, would the Deputy Prime Minister not agree that we have every reason to want to get to the bottom of this matter, given the appearance of conflict of interest?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

Mr. Speaker, the member apparently has doubts as to whether the minister wanted to pay for the time he spent there, but he paid with a cheque. There is nothing wrong with that. One has no control over a cheque once it is handed over. If he had paid cash, for instance, how could he prove that he had done so? He paid by cheque. He has no control over the cheque once he has handed it over. So what does the member want?

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC]

What we want, Mr. Speaker, is the truth and only an independent public inquiry will give it to us.

The Prime Minister told the House that the situation would have been serious if the minister had not paid. Now that it is becoming increasingly clear that the minister did not pay, will the Deputy Prime Minister agree that all this confusion makes an independent public inquiry into this whole business necessary? That is what we want.

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Infrastructure and Crown Corporations]

No, Mr. Speaker, not at all.