Debates of May 3rd, 2002

Trade

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, working families across Canada have been betrayed by the government's failure to deal with significant trade issues.

Canada's economy depends on trade. With the U.S. decision on softwood lumber and the passage of the new U.S. farm bill the government has failed to protect hard-working Canadian families. The Prime Minister has failed. It turns out he has no influence in Washington and no clout to protect Canadians.

Will the acting prime minister explain to Canadian families why the government has failed to protect their interests from U.S. protectionism?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, in terms of softwood lumber, the record is quite clear. The government has acted aggressively. The Minister for International Trade has marshalled a unanimous position among stakeholders and provincial governments. The Prime Minister has spoken with the president about it repeatedly. The government has been solidly behind the industry, the communities and the stakeholders and we will continue to work our way toward free and fair trade which is what we favour.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the government has done so well we now have 30,000 people not working in this industry. Perhaps if it was Bombardier and not hard-working families the government would have taken real action.

The minister staggered Canadians yesterday when he fluffed this off as industrial restructuring. The parliamentary secretary called these innocent victims nervous nellies just a couple of months ago.

How can the minister account for this pattern of neglect, mismanagement, bungling, ignorance and arrogance?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the record is clear and it speaks for itself. What we have is a chronology of co-ordinated efforts on behalf of the government, all provincial governments, the industry and the communities. We have taken our case to the Americans. We have taken our case to the World Trade Organization, and we are right. We will prevail. We are pursuing all legal avenues and will ensure that we stand behind the communities of the industry.

The minister has worked very hard with his colleagues across the country to put our case forward. What we want is free and fair trade and we will continue to work our way toward that result.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has failed and communities are dying right across Canada. In response to questions about helping innocent families, yesterday the international trade minister said “We have to take the right decision at the appropriate time”. We are astounded that the minister thinks he can get away with such utter nonsense. Even in British Columbia, and the minister knows this, there is a 13 and a half week wait for EI claims. That is regular right now.

Canadians, British Columbians and everyone needs to know exactly what the government will do to help the 30,000 to 50,000 people who will be unemployed in the country because of this minister's failure. I am referring not to the minister who is talking today but to the minister who has failed on this project. What is he going to do to help Canadians?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the hon. member that this is a team effort on behalf of this government, its ministers and ministers in provincial governments. We have stood together on this issue. It is a Canadian approach.

Let me also make it clear that we will stand behind the communities and support the workers and the people who will be affected by this very unfair and outrageous tariff.

We must remember the real problem here. It is not in this House, it is on the other side of the border. We again call on the American administration to listen to all the voices in this debate, including those voices in the congress who are urging the administration to favour free and fair trade. That is our objective.

Agriculture

[Charlie Penson, Canadian Alliance, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, U.S. protectionism extends well beyond softwood lumber. Our farmers are also under attack as the Liberals continue to fail to come to their defence. The U.S. will be dumping an additional $73 billion into its farm programs. Our farmers cannot fight against the U.S. treasury on their own.

Why has the government failed to secure international opportunities for Canadian farmers through trade negotiations that would phase down these international subsidies?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada got exactly what the industry asked us to get in the declaration on agriculture at Doha and the WTO round. We have, for the first time, the requirement and the hope of all WTO countries, including us, for the reduction and eventual elimination of such things as trade distorting and production distorting domestic subsidies.

Unfortunately some countries, and it has been emphasized in the U.S. farm bill in the last few days, are not walking the talk that they gave in Doha.

[Charlie Penson, Canadian Alliance, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that seems to be about the same answer we had in the House in 1993 when this government came to power. We are no further along.

The government seems to have no idea what it is up against. It is an election year in the United States and American lawmakers are determined to pass a massive subsidy bill on agriculture.

It is way past the time that the Prime Minister directly involves himself in this issue. The Prime Minister needs to be involved. Why has he failed working families so badly in softwood lumber and in agriculture to protect their livelihoods?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows very well that the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, myself, the industry and many others have expressed our concerns and our views to the United States.

The hon. member is a member of a party that wants Canada to make laws in Canada. Unfortunately the reality is that the United States makes laws in the United States. We can express our views on its laws and try to change them but we do not have the voting power in its congress and, fortunately, it does not have voting power in our House either.

Softwood Lumber

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as regards the softwood lumber dispute, the government must implement a plan to help workers and companies, and thus show the Americans that Canada will not be pushed around, particularly since the guaranteed loans to companies do not violate WTO rules.

It is this government that failed in the negotiations. It is this government that has the responsibility to act and the industry is unanimously asking for its help. What is it waiting for to get to work and, at last, help communities, workers and the industry, since they cannot handle this 27% surtax?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, we intend to continue to fight the duties imposed by the Americans.

We will explore every possible recourse before the World Trade Organization, and we will support the industries and communities affected by these duties.

As the Prime Minister and the Minister for International Trade clearly stated yesterday, we will continue to fight for free trade.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the meantime, workers and communities are waiting for practical measures and we are anxious to see what these measures will be.

I also remind the minister that, during the last election campaign, the Liberals made all sorts of promises and boasted that they would solve the employment insurance problems, that they would help the regions and, moreover, that they would create jobs. Now, the softwood lumber dispute requires that the government take action.

Now that the situation requires this, what does the government intend to do to make good on its unfulfilled commitments?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, programs to support individuals, families and communities affected by the duties imposed by the Americans already exist. We are open to other measures.

We are currently discussing the situation with our provincial counterparts. We will continue to work to ensure that communities are protected against the Americans' unfair practices.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with the softwood lumber industry facing an unprecedented trade war, the Minister for International Trade is trotting out one ambiguous statement after another.

Yesterday, he said that job losses in the softwood lumber industry did not come about because of the American ruling, but because of normal market restructuring.

Is the minister telling us that the government is using restructuring as an excuse to do nothing?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Not at all, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, the Minister for International Trade made our position clear.

Clearly, we are going to continue working with the provincial governments, the provincial ministers and the industry. We are going to continue to argue our case before the panels in order to obtain the results we are seeking as a government.

We feel that the duties imposed by the Americans are completely unfair.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that all sounds very wonderful. But the Association des manufacturiers de bois de sciage du Québec maintains that job losses are strongly linked to the uncertainty associated with countervailing duties, and the unions are saying that governments must stimulate the construction industry.

Given these reactions, what steps does the government intend to take to save the softwood lumber industry from disaster?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, we have not discounted any option. All the options are on the table and we are now considering them. We will take action in due course.

[Bev Desjarlais, NDP, Churchill, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the government's position is not clear. For months the Minister of Human Resources Development has been touting her department's programs to help workers laid off because of the softwood lumber dispute. She obviously thinks there has been some job losses here. Yesterday the international trade minister suddenly claimed that the U.S. protectionist measures have not caused any job losses at all.

I would like to ask the Minister of Industry, who should know a thing or two about the file, which of his colleagues is mistaken. Have U.S. tariffs caused any job losses?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the position is clear. The tariffs are wrong. They are unjust and protectionist. We have opposed them throughout. We negotiated hard in Canada's interest. The Americans are acting unreasonably. We want the administration to start listening to other voices in congress who are calling out for fairness in free trade between our two nations.

Regardless of the cause for the job losses, I want the member to know that we will be there to support the communities and the families affected by these unjust actions.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the government's position is as clear as mud. We want to know what on earth the government's game plan is? The trade minister has a lot of gall saying that there are no direct job losses. I would like to take that minister and other ministers into some of these coastal communities where they have already suffered 15,000 job losses and up to 50,000 overall.

What is the government's game plan? Is this government bankrupt in ideas? What about affordable housing? Let us use our own lumber. Even the Liberal urban task force is talking about this. Exactly what is the government's plan to protect--

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Industry.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, that member and her party do not have a monopoly on concern for those communities, those individuals and the families affected. That very concern is what motivated the Minister for International Trade to work for months painstakingly developing a Canadian position reflecting the interests of the provincial governments and those very communities. He negotiated hard.

The Americans are being unreasonable. We intend to use all existing programs to help those communities and, if need be, we shall do what is required to make sure they are protected from this unreasonable American action.

Agriculture

[Rick Borotsik, Progressive Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is not that the government did not know that the U.S. farm bill was coming. Now Canadian agriculture is devastated: $180 billion in U.S. subsidies; inclusion of pulse crops; and country of origin labelling. This is the final nail in our agricultural coffin and our minister has no plans.

I have a suggestion: match the U.S. subsidies. Will he?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows that program payments to Canadian farmers last year were $3.7 billion. We have programs in place this year. We recognize the need for bridging and supporting farmers as we move into a much better policy approach than in the United States.

I remind the hon. member that even the New York Times has stated that the farm bill, agreed to by a house and senate conference committee, was a regrettable reversion to some of the worst policies of the past. We will put good policies of support in place, not bad policies.