Debates of April 2nd, 2003

Member for LaSalle—Émard

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, a number of steps were taken subsequent to 1992, including in 1995 with the amendment of the so-called FAPI rules, foreign accrual property income rules. In 1996 foreign reporting requirements were implemented. In 1997 transfer pricing rules that were approved in Canada have the potential for cross-border shifting of income. In 2002 revised rules relating to foreign investment entities and non-resident trusts were prepared.

There were a lot of recommendations in the 1997 corporate tax review, most of which the hon. member would have advised against.

Iraq

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Pentagon confirmed that the U.S. Air Force is using cluster bombs against Iraq, but claims these do not represent any danger to civilians. Yet the reality is quite different. Cluster bombing of the village of Hindiya has left 33 dead and 310 injured. The International Red Cross Committee spokesperson in Baghdad described it as a scene of absolute horror.

Is the Prime Minister going to condemn the unjustified use of cluster bombs by pulling out the Canadian soldiers who are taking part in a war he himself terms unjustified?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, when we worked on drafting the treaty on antipersonnel mines, we tried to get a treaty on this type of bomb, but it was not accepted. So the U.S. forces are apparently using them. This does not contravene the international treaties on instruments of war.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what we are hearing from the Prime Minister now is total hypocrisy. Not only has he sent Canadian soldiers to wage a war in which Canada is not officially taking part, but now he has just told us that Canada condemns the use of cluster bombs.

Does the Prime Minister, that great promoter of the Ottawa Treaty as he has just told us, realize that by leaving Canadian soldiers in Iraq he is associating Canada with the use of cluster bombs against Iraqi civilians, which is contrary to his own position? That is hypocritical.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as I have already said in answer to another question, we acted in accordance with the recommendations of the armed forces, which told us that it was very important to maintain our agreements with the countries involved in exchanges with Canada. When such exchanges take place, obviously the soldiers transferred are under the orders of the authorities where they are transferred, as are those who come to Canada on exchange. They must follow the orders they receive from their commanding authorities.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the treaty to ban landmines has not been ratified by the United States. In the context of military personnel exchange programs, we hope that Canadian soldiers will not be taking part in a war where landmines are used, for this would be contrary to the treaty and would make Canada an accomplice of the Americans.

Has the Minister of National Defence obtained such guarantees from the Americans?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, soldiers in the Canadian Forces are not allowed to use or work with such mines.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has just said that Canadian soldiers were under the authority of the commanders of the combat units in which they are serving. It has even been reported that American soldiers are using landmines around their camps.

Will the minister admit that, if Canadian soldiers in American units were to use these mines, Canada would be in violation of its commitments under the Ottawa Convention on Landmines?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, as I have just said, Canadian soldiers do not have permission to use these mines, no matter what the soldiers they work with are doing.

Canadian Forces

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the right hon. Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister today seems to be hiding behind a recommendation of the Canadian armed forces themselves, responding to a recommendation of the forces. The Prime Minister knows better than anyone in the House that it is ultimately a political decision whether or not those troops are left in the gulf region.

Why on earth is the Prime Minister contaminating his own position persistently by leaving these troops in the gulf where they are participating in a war that the Prime Minister has said we are not participating in?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have always said since the beginning that if there were troops participating because they were on loan, they would be there. We have said that and we accept that. I am not trying to hide.

We took the decision to accept the recommendation of the armed forces and I am accepting the responsibility because I have accepted the recommendation.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in this House the Prime Minister assured me on March 18 that Canadian ships in the gulf region would not be participating in the war in Iraq and yet it has come to our attention that indeed they are, that if they discover Iraqi officials on ships in the gulf that these officials will be detained, for example.

Could the Prime Minister please tell us how this is consistent with his position that we are not participating in the war in Iraq? I cannot, for the life of me, understand why the Prime Minister would continue to contaminate his own very valid position on the war in Iraq by insisting on having Canadian troops involved.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there are no Canadian troops involved. The ships there are doing their job in relation to the responsibilities that we have undertaken to fight terrorism in that part of the world.

A few soldiers are on an exchange program with the Americans and the British, and some of them are in Iraq. They are just respecting the contract that we have entered into with these troops. It is a well established program of exchange between the different armed forces.

Member for LaSalle--Émard

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Canada Steamship Lines says that it moved certain operations to Barbados because of changes in Canadian tax rules in 1995. The ethics counsellor took part in meetings between CSL and its owner, the then minister of finance. The counsellor declined to tell the CBC program Disclosure whether the then minister had discussed the Barbados decision.

Has the ethics counsellor told the Prime Minister whether the then minister of finance discussed his company's move to Barbados? Has the Prime Minister asked the ethics counsellor? If not, will the Prime Minister ask him?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have established clearly in the House that any minister faced with a conflict of interest has to withdraw from a discussion. I have not been informed of any minister who did not follow these rules.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is step forward. Will the Prime Minister confirm that he knew that Canada Steamship Lines was owned by the member for LaSalle—Émard when he named him minister of finance? Will the Prime Minister also confirm that he knew the 1994 budget closed Canadian tax loopholes with respect to Liberia and did not close loopholes with respect to Barbados?

Will he advise the House when he first learned that his former finance minister's company, Canada Steamship Lines, shut down its operations in Liberia and opened operations in Barbados or is it the Prime Minister's position that he just did not know?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have explained very clearly what the rules are. When he talks about changes in the laws in Canada, it is very public because they have been passed by the House of Commons. He should have known too. Everyone should know.

Yes, I have known for a long time that the member for LaSalle—Émard was the owner of Canada Steamship Lines. I visited ships in the Port of Montreal for the fun of it, before I was Prime Minister.

Health

[Rob Merrifield, Canadian Alliance, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let me quote from the World Health Organization's own material on airport protocol. It states, “Screening measures recommended involve an interview with passengers departing”.

If the ticket agent can ask about who packed the baggage, he can easily ask about health concerns and travel history. Why is it not being done?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated yesterday, we have been in constant communication with the WHO. It is fully aware of our screening procedures for outbound passengers leaving Pearson International Airport. As of 1:30 this afternoon the WHO is very satisfied with those procedures.

[Rob Merrifield, Canadian Alliance, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I just quoted from the WHO's own material. Whatever we do in Canada may be insignificant if infected passengers are coming to Canada from places like Hong Kong and Singapore.

Perhaps the minister could inform us if passengers from Hong Kong, Singapore and possibly China are being interviewed prior to departure for Canada. Are they being screened by pamphlet or interview or not at all?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated yesterday to the hon. member, we do not have jurisdiction over airlines such as Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines or others. Nor do we have jurisdiction over airports such as the one in Hong Kong. However the WHO is working very carefully with all countries that are involved in this situation.

Yesterday I indicated that I had asked my officials to ensure that the WHO was working with the Hong Kong airport and other airports in southeast Asia to ensure they had screening procedures in place for outbound passengers.

Iraq

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Defence has been unable to tell us if there have been precedents of Canadian soldiers being sent into combat while on exchange when Canada was not officially at war, as is the case currently with Iraq. He has answered that he is still looking into that matter.

Can the Minister of National Defence tell us if his research has finally uncovered whether or not members of the Canadian military have, in the past, taken part in conflicts without Canada officially being at war?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, this seems to be a daily question. I can tell the member that the research continues.

I would add that the government's decision was clearly not based on such precedents, because we still do not know what these precedents are. The decision was made for other reasons that I have explained a thousand times in the House.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, one might conclude that the officials at the Department of National Defence, or those who have worked there for years, are lacking in the requisite skills. However, I will simplify the task for the minister and narrow the question even more.

Take the American intervention in Vietnam, which took place from 1963 to 1975. During this conflict, was there an exchange in which Canadian soldiers were involved in the Vietnam war alongside American troops, for example? If so, will he table the documents?

[John McCallum, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think it is necessary to question the competence of our public officials. There have been all sorts of accusations in the House. It is not the fault of these officials, who are doing their job.

There appear to be anecdotal possibilities. We are continuing to research the matter but it is not certain whether or not we will uncover any cases.