Debates of Sept. 24th, 2003

Agriculture

[Gerry Ritz, Canadian Alliance, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I can understand the minister trying to shift this from trade to health because they have no political capital to fight a trade issue with the United States.

If the minister feels this is a health issue, then we had better get some better answers than the Minister of Health had on SARS. If it is a trade issue, then the Minister for International Trade had better get up to speed here rather than what he did on the softwood lumber crisis.

If we are forced to reconfigure our livestock to a mainly domestic market, producers need a plan. We need that plan now and we need a budget now. When will the minister deliver it?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, this is entirely and completely the work of the beef roundtable, which was in place for some time before the BSE issue. At that time it was talking about the industry and how to expand the industry and respond to international demands and market situations. At the present time that very same beef roundtable, with provincial and federal representation, producers, processors, consumers, is involved in how to best adapt the beef industry to the realities of the day. At the same time it is working to get our borders reopened.

Municipalities

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the former finance minister and father of fiscal imbalance has made huge cuts to the federal transfer payments to Quebec, and the municipalities are having serious financial difficulties. The Quebec minister of municipal affairs is, moreover, demanding that Ottawa help them, but in a way that respects Quebec's jurisdiction.

Since the money is in Ottawa, if the federal government wants to really help municipalities, why does it not just hand over its surplus funds directly to the Government of Quebec, which has jurisdiction over municipalities?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, we have had programs since 1994 to assist municipal governments, with the participation of the provinces, the Province of Quebec included.

For example, we introduced the infrastructure program, which has worked very well. I believe it had municipal acceptance, and that it helps them achieve their priorities. There was active participation by the provincial governments as well.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the federal government can deny it all it wants, but there is fiscal imbalance. The proof of this is that the new Liberal leader wants to give up part of the federal gasoline tax, but on condition that it go to the municipalities.

If the federal government really wants to help municipalities, if the true objective is not to interfere, will the Prime Minister admit that it is not necessary to find a new mechanism, as his successor is proposing, since there is one already in place: simply pay the money directly to the Government of Quebec, which will ensure municipalities benefit from it, without any further delay or red tape?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we do have programs, as the finance minister has said, which have applied to municipalities for a long time. We are, for example, involved in housing and, through local organizations within the municipalities, in providing people with subsidized housing. There are all manner of programs, and always in collaboration with the provincial governments.

As far as the fiscal imbalance is concerned, we have of course succeeded in balancing budgets for the past seven years. As a result, today there are very low interest rates in Canada, and this does a great deal to help the municipalities and provincial governments service their debt.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, instead of mandating the Privy Council to find ways to transfer a portion of the gasoline excise tax to municipalities, the future prime minister would be better advised to transfer the money directly to the government responsible for the municipalities, that is the Government of Quebec and the governments of the other provinces.

Would this not start to address the fiscal imbalance that the future Prime Minister himself helped to create?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I believe reasonably that what we need here in Canada is really a partnership between the various levels of government. All taxpayers are well aware that they are the only ones paying taxes in Canada.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the agreements—the Minister of Finance refers to them as partnerships—proposed by Ottawa are always interim agreements. Consequently, Ottawa can withdraw whenever it pleases, leaving the provinces in the lurch.

If the government is serious about wanting to help municipalities, why not kill two birds with one stone by respecting the jurisdictions of Quebec and the provinces in giving the money directly to them, while at the same time helping to correct the fiscal imbalance?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the government rejects the idea that it does not have a role in addressing the concerns of Canadians, together with the other levels of government.

Infrastructure, affordable housing and other issues important to all Canadians are also important to the federal government.

Liberal Government

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the longest transition period in history is now underway. The discussions between Michael Robinson, a lobbyist who leads the new Liberal leader's transition team, and the Clerk of the Privy Council, raise a serious conflict of interest.

Can the Prime Minister assure the House that the integrity of the Privy Council and of his government will not be compromised by this long transition phase? What is he doing?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Absolutely not, Mr. Speaker. Everything is running normally. There will be a new prime minister in coming months. Everything should go smoothly. Decisions will be made by the new government. In the meantime, they are our decisions too. There is nothing abnormal in being able to communicate a bit and provide certain information, just as we do here in the House of Commons.

Moreover, the hon. member himself is involved in negotiations. I do not know if he is consulting with Mr. Orchard during his current negotiations with the Leader of the Opposition .

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, if conflicts of interest are normal, then I guess that is business as usual on the government side.

Michael Robinson is a registered lobbyist with Earnscliffe who represents dozens of blue chip corporations that deal directly with the Liberal government. He is also the recently appointed Liberal leader's point man during the transition. Clearly, this is a serious conflict of interest. Such access makes Mr. Robinson privy to policy options and future decisions of the Government of Canada. This could reap huge benefits for his clients or for him personally.

How can the Prime Minister permit a registered lobbyist direct access to the cabinet secrets--

[The Speaker]

The Right Hon. Prime Minister.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, he talks about a registered person. Everybody knows that he is registered, and they can talk. I know the Clerk of the Privy Council knows very well what he can or cannot talk about. Because one is the Clerk of the Privy Council, one can have a civilized discussion, and Mr. Himelfarb is a very civilized person.

The Environment

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, first, a quick thanks to Ernie Eves last night. His admiration for the former finance minister makes great footage for Jack Layton's election ads.

First the new Liberal leader says glowing things about Gordon Campbell in B.C. and now Ernie Eves is kissing up to the former finance minister too. Talk about uniting the right. However Eves and the new Liberal leader have something else in common and that is a dismal record on coal.

I would like to ask the environment minister this. Why has the government not enforced its laws against Ernie Eves' filthy coal plants? Why are they not enforcing the law?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is a very interesting presentation but I do not know what the question is.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the problem the Liberals have is that their new leader's rhetoric does not match his actual record. I come from Windsor, home of Canada's worst smog. It is also the hometown of Ernie Eves and the new Liberal leader. Coincidence? I do not think so. I know so.

Just like Ernie Eves, the new Liberal leader cut environment spending. Even as New York takes Ontario coal-fired plants to court, we learn the Liberals do not even enforce their own regulations.

Why is the minister letting Ernie Eves' coal-fired plants spew smog all over the Great Lakes? Is it because he is auditioning for a new job and a new boss?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, given that the member is from Windsor, he should be happy to have people from Windsor in the news: Mr. Eves and the member for LaSalle--Émard.

In terms of the environment, the government has done a lot. We have signed Kyoto, and those people accused us of not having the courage to do that. We have done that and now the people in Alberta are happy because they have future security. They know that it is doable and at the same time we can still have a good economy in Canada.

Research and Development

[James Rajotte, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, several field agents representing the industrial research assistance program have been under investigation for more than a year. These individuals were allegedly receiving kickbacks in exchange for securing government grants. This is a very serious allegation and needs to be addressed.

Would the Minister of Industry explain how many investigations are going on, how much money has been lost and when he and his department are going to get to the bottom of this mess?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I should first emphasize that the irregularities came to light by virtue of NRC's own internal processes of safeguards. It reacted immediately by launching an internal investigation and at the appropriate time informing the RCMP.

I have asked Dr. Carty to first, conclude that investigation as quickly as possible, and second, to ensure, by whatever means are necessary, that the internal processes are of the highest standard when it comes to controlling the operations of the offices.

[James Rajotte, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this internal IRAP investigation has been going on for over a year, since August 2002, yet in the House yesterday the minister said he only learned of this investigation this week. That is absolutely unacceptable. A minister is supposed to know what is going on in his own department.

How many more RCMP police investigations or internal investigations are going on within his own department that he knows or does not even know about? When will he get control of his own department?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, as I have told the member, steps have been taken and are being taken to fully investigate the matter. I am told that the internal investigation will be completed in the reasonably foreseeable future.

I should also point out that a substantial portion of the alleged overpayments have been recovered by IRAP and have been paid back to the government. I am sure that the report, when it is eventually concluded, will make all those statements clear.

Taxation

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the decision of the future prime minister to transfer part of the federal gasoline tax to municipalities is another interim short-sighted decision that will not result in a long term solution. In other words, this is just another scheme to buy votes.

If the future prime minister really wants to resolve chronic municipal underfunding, is he prepared to do the only thing that would lead to a permanent solution, meaning giving directly to Quebec and the provinces the money they lack?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, we must remember that the power to levy municipal taxes is provincial. However, the Government of Canada certainly has an interest in ensuring quality infrastructure and access to affordable housing and public transportation.

For several years now, we have shown our desire to work in partnership with the other levels of government in these areas of great importance to Canadians.