Debates of Nov. 16th, 2004

Supply

[An hon. member]

The New York Times

. Wow.

[Liza Frulla, Liberal, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

In light of everything that was just said, it is only fair to say that Canadian literature is one of our great causes for national pride. Works by such writers as Margaret Atwood, Michael Ondaatje, Gilles Courtemanche, Anne Hébert and Alice Munro are translated in dozens of languages and appreciated the world over.

The fact that Canadian literature has garnered such success is all the more impressive considering that our country comprises two relatively small linguistic markets.

Therefore, support by the government of Canada is crucial to the success of Canadian literature here at home and abroad. Our framework of regulatory measures and targeted aid has ensured that Canadian creators and producers possess the tools they need to succeed.

Part of this strategy consists of supporting important cultural elements such as the Giller Prize and also the Salon du livre de Montréal, the Montreal Book Fair, which will hold its 27th edition beginning Thursday, as well as all other book fairs — it is totally true — all over Quebec. There is one in Quebec City, one in Gatineau. They are everywhere.

The year 2004 is the 25th anniversary of the Book Publishing Industry Development Program. That program remains a significant factor underpinning the success of Canadian literature. It helps Canadian publishing companies to grow and to publish more Canadian authors. By the way, Ms. Munro's works are published by a Canadian publishing house.

Thanks to this program, these books are available in all the major world markets. The program also ensures that such awards as the Giller Prize play a key role in enhancing the visibility of Canadian books.

The first works by all 2004 Giller finalists were published by Canadian-owned publishing houses in receipt of assistance from the department. WIthout that assistance, they would find it very risky to publish any new writers. The government will continue to work with Canadian authors and publishers in order to continue this momentum.

Canadian literature will therefore be able to sustain the unprecedented commercial and artistic successes it now enjoys. I believe it is appropriate in this, our 25th year of helping literature, to congratulate all Canadian and Quebec authors, both anglophone and francophone, who have done us proud everywhere in the world.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chair, the Toronto Star of November 13 quoted Kevin Garland, executive director of the National Ballet, as saying that the minister said, “There are questions being raised in the House about the ways funds are being administered on the Tomorrow Starts Today program”.

Apparently the minister on the weekend told people in Toronto that questions had been raised in the House about the way funds were being administered in this program. Did the Minister of Canadian Heritage tell people in Toronto this past weekend that questions had been raised on this program, yes or no?

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Chair, it was interesting to hear the hon. member actually quoting Kevin Garland, the executive director of the National Ballet. In fact, one of the things I know is that the minister was meeting him, and I met with Kevin Garland as well, along with other major cultural institutions in the city of Toronto, such as the Toronto symphony, the Canadian opera and Canadian stage, to discuss the renewal of Tomorrow Starts Today.

What Mr. Ouzounian, I believe, may have written is one thing, but I know that all the meetings were held to support the minister as we move forward with Tomorrow Starts Today.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chair, we have this process for a reason. It is for us to ask questions and for the minister to whom they are directed to answer. I asked a very simple question.

Did the minister tell people on the weekend that questions had been raised in the House with respect to this program, yes or no?

[Liza Frulla, Liberal, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Mr. Chair, the answer is no. But I have the feeling they referred to a November 3 letter sent by the Leader of the Opposition. We had this letter in our possession. It says about Tomorrow Starts Today that the Conservative Party Supports Funding for the Arts:

“However, while we support funding for the arts, there are some basic principles that have to go along with this money. We believe that accountability must be promoted. There must be measurable results and to determine whether or not there is a starting and ending point to the program--

[The Deputy Chair]

The hon. member for Calgary Southeast.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chair, I rise on a point of order. I was under the impression that answers would be equivalent in time to questions. Is that not the rule?

[The Deputy Chair]

The rule is that the same time applies, but there is a certain minimum of time for the minister to get up and answer your question. We are checking it with the clock.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I will be doing that as well. The reason I raise that question, Mr. Chair, is simply because the minister apparently told people on the weekend that questions have been raised about a program. She was trying to create hysteria about an opposition attack on a particular program. We have checked Hansard . Nobody has asked any question about this program. Therefore, I wonder why the minister would want to be misleading, perhaps inadvertently, members of the cultural community into this kind of hysteria.

I want to ask the minister about the veracity of a media report on October 7 of this year entitled “Poor attendance may cost [Minister of Canadian Heritage] seat on key committee”. It said:

Heritage Minister... risked being dumped from a key Cabinet committee in charge of implementing the Liberal government's agenda because of poor attendance, federal officials say. [The Minister of Canadian Heritage] confirmed yesterday she missed three weeks of meetings of the cabinet operations committee in September...Senior--

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I rise on a point of order. My understanding, as we finish off this evening which has been so successful, is that we are here to question the minister and the government on the estimates. With all due respect, Mr. Chair, I believe this question is totally out of order.

[The Deputy Chair]

Up until now I think that both side of the House have been very tolerant and I think we can continue. We have another 15 minutes left tonight, so let us try to be tolerant on both sides. The hon. member for Calgary Southeast.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chair, I am asking about the minister's non-performance of her ministerial responsibilities. The article went on to say:

Senior officials say [the Minister of Canadian Heritage], a former Quebec cabinet minister...has not been serious about contributing to the 10-member operations committee that oversees all government policy....

Is this true? Why was she not doing her job? Why did she imperil her position on that committee?

[Liza Frulla, Liberal, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to answer the first part of the question first. The hon. member asked about the minister. The answer is no. The letter reads:

“The Conservative Party also has several concerns specific to the Tomorrow Starts Today program package. While the recipients of the funding may be highly deserving we feel that the process is vague and that there is a lack of precision and detailed criteria demanded in the selection of recipients”.

This letter was sent to Joysanne Sidimus, of the Dancer Transition Resource Centre. These letters have been sent to answer requests for support for the Tomorrow Starts Today program. The signature is Mr. Harper's.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Liza Frulla, Liberal, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I have the feeling the opposition does not need us to provoke hysteria.

As to my presence--

[The Deputy Chair]

The hon. member for Calgary Southeast.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chair, the minister is compounding her apparent contempt for a cabinet job through the non-performance and non-attendance with contempt for this committee when she refuses to answer questions.

I asked a very direct question which she did not even attempt to address in a response. The question was this. Is it true, according to public reports, that she was threatened with being dumped from the cabinet operations committee for missing critical meetings? Is it true that senior government officials have said that she is not serious about contributing to the 10-member operations committee? Why would she imperil her position on this important committee?

[Liza Frulla, Liberal, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Mr. Chair, I will be pleased to answer the question.

We have now settled the mass hysteria over the Tomorrow Starts Today program caused by the opposition itself. I can tell you first that committee proceedings are confidential, and secondly that media reports were completely false.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chair, I guess her second refusal to answer that direct question confirms that she did not attend those critical meetings. It confirms the veracity of the report that she was threatened with removal from the cabinet operations committee for incompetence and non-performance of her duties, contempt of which is compounded by her refusal to answer questions here tonight.

I would like to ask the Minister of Canadian Heritage about her decision to contract out Canada's foreign policy to her friend, the representative of the heritage ministry of the Government of Quebec.

A report on September 24 of this year with the headline, “Province can speak for Canada, Frulla says: Perfect marriage, if not a bit of incest” quotes the minister as saying, speaking of the minister of heritage for Quebec, that she “can speak for both of us very well”. The minister said that Quebec and Ottawa have been speaking with “the same voice on cultural issues for a while”, describing the relationship between the two governments as “a perfect marriage, if not a bit of incest”.

Are these quotes attributed to the minister accurate? Why would she imply that a provincial government could speak for Canada?

[Liza Frulla, Liberal, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Mr. Chair, it will give me great pleasure to reply to the hon. member. First, I did answer the first question by saying that the allegation in the newspapers was completely false. That is my reply and I think it is complete.

Of course, everyone knows that when it comes to participation in international conferences, the universal rule for the host country is that each country speaks with one voice. Still, a province or territory that is part of the Canadian delegation to the international conference, such as UNESCO, for example, can sometimes occupy Canada's official seat and present one or more aspects of the Canadian position, which is in accordance with international law and diplomacy.

For example, in education, provincial participation is coordinated by the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada, which designates one province or territory in turn to represent all the ministers at UNESCO meetings. In 1998, British Columbia was head of mission and in October 2003, Canada's delegation to the Education Commission was led by Manitoba minister McGifford, who represented the Council.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chair, I can understand why the minister would want to backpedal and obfuscate, because she does not want to take ownership of her comments which said that a provincial minister could speak for the Government of Canada. I am surprised to see my Liberal friends who normally pride themselves on being nationalists applauding a minister who is contracting out Canadian foreign policy to a provincial government.

I have a very simple question. If this was simply a matter of form, why did she say that the Quebec culture minister could speak for Canada at UNESCO? Would she take the same position for a minister from another province? I doubt it.

Speaking of UNESCO and in so far as the minister and her department are in part responsible for Canada's policies articulated at UNESCO, I would like to ask her whether or not she or her predecessor were consulted by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding the appointment of Yvon Charbonneau as Canadian ambassador to UNESCO.

According to the Canadian Jewish Congress, Mr. Charbonneau has made anti-Semitic remarks and has called upon him to condemn anti-Semitism and to clarify his views upon his appointment. Among other things he has referred to Israel as a rogue state and referred to its terror campaign. He has referred to the policies of the United States as comparable to those of the Third Reich.

Do the comments of Mr. Charbonneau at UNESCO represent the views of the Department of Canadian Heritage or the Government of Canada?

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I rise on a point of order. I do not like to interrupt the hon. member across the way but we have been here for over four hours. We have tried to focus our discussions on the estimates and things within the purview of the department and the Minister of Canadian Heritage. Therefore, I respectfully submit that this question is totally out of order.

[The Deputy Chair]

On this point of order, may I remind the hon. member for Calgary Southeast to be somewhat more judicious in his questioning. This is in regard to estimates.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chair, as I pointed out, UNESCO is partly the responsibility of the minister. She attends UNESCO meetings and the ambassador speaks in part on her behalf when there. The ambassador is a man with a record of anti-Semitic comments, anti-American comments and anti-Israeli comments.

My question was very precise and relevant to her responsibilities. Was she consulted about the employment of somebody with a track record of anti-Semitic, anti-American comments to represent her department and Canada abroad, yes or no?