Madam Chair, this is a debate that, of course, as with some debates in the House, carries with it many emotional undertones. I would like to start by suggesting that I do not believe that any one of us in the House is devoid of compassion or a sense of understanding or feeling for people who have been affected by hepatitis C through no fault of their own. I want to take a moment to clarify some of the things that have been said here and to try to roll it together so that we see a clearer picture.
Hepatitis C is caught in very many different ways. One can get hepatitis C from intravenous drug use, from blood and body fluid transfers in other ways and of course from blood transfusions. What we are talking about here is a group of people who contracted hepatitis C from infected blood transfusions that were given to them and through no fault of their own they became ill with this disease. That is what we are focusing on at the moment, people who, through no fault of their own, contracted this disease that can be fatal.
To clarify this issue, I want to talk a bit about the fundamental difference between the groups. There are those who are now receiving compensation, the 1986 to 1990 group of people that we keep talking about. I think the reason those people were given compensation initially, and people have talked about the reasons this all happened, is that many of us believe and have believed that consistent with tort in medical law is the concept of fault.
If there was knowledge of a practice of medicine or some sort of infection at the time and we did not use that knowledge, or we allowed a patient to become ill as a result of it, that was fault. Therefore, that was negligence and there was compensation required for that kind of negligence. I think that was how the government saw this at the time.
In fact, between 1986 and 1990 there were tests being done. They were not specific for hepatitis C. We had not given the illness a name. We did not know what the virus was. I was a physician at the time and we used to call it non-A, non-B hepatitis because we did not know what it was, until about the mid-1990s when an absolute test was developed that could identify hepatitis C. From 1986 until then, there were what are known as surrogate tests. They identified a virus. We did not know exactly what the virus was, but we knew there was a virus.
Many countries of the world began using that surrogate, non-definitive test in that period of time, but Canada did not. Therefore, Canada was at fault. Canada was negligent, the blood system was negligent and those who delivered that system were negligent. That was clear. It was believed that as a result of that fault and negligence there should be compensation given to the people who during that time could have had those blood tests done and could have had blood given to them that had been appropriately tested.
Having said all of that, I think that is where we got to the point of the issue of compensation for this group. At the time many of us felt that even if compensation was given to a particular group, there are those who are still sick. Whether they were there pre-test or post-test, they are now ill. Many people have hepatitis C. Some do not have any symptoms yet, but many people do and have become quite ill. They have lost their homes and mortgages. They are required to take medication that could bankrupt them. Indeed, many of them did go bankrupt because of medication costs.
It was felt at the time by many of us on this side that we needed to look at providing assistance for the group not in the compensation window who were suffering, to have medication available, to provide care when they needed it and to provide treatment. Moneys were transferred to the provinces in order to do that because, as we heard earlier, the medication was extremely expensive. Many people were ill and so disabled that they could not work and they were unable to take care of themselves. Those are some of the things that one felt we could do. That was considered to be compassionate access.
Hindsight has always been twenty-twenty. People now realize that in fact there are many people within those groups who are not in the window, who have bankrupted themselves, who are living in absolute poverty and who have no ability to take care of themselves.
As we heard the minister say, this is the story of people's lives that have been destroyed. We need to look at what we do to be compassionate and to assist them with whatever their needs are, and not merely health care needs, or treatment, or long term or chronic care, but also to assist them out of poverty.
The question is not do we or do we not do it. The question is how do we do it and what vehicle do we use. Many people suggest we take the money that has not been used for the people within the window or who have received compensation and disburse it among the other groups. The point they are missing is that many people in the window group or who received compensation, may live for another 60 years. They currently may be well, but they may develop symptoms and move on to become quite morbid with a full disability 20 or 30 years from now. This money belongs to them by virtue of compensation. We cannot take that money, spend it and find 20 years from now that patients from that group require it.
Everyone is trying to be very accountable and careful with the fund that was set aside for this group. Therefore, we need to some things. Obviously, we need to require the agreement of those people in that group to allow us to disburse those moneys. We would also require the agreement of their lawyers. We would require the agreement of provinces and territories. It would require the agreement of the courts in British Columbia, Ontario and Quebec that agreed to the settlement in 1999. We need to take four steps in order to disburse that money.
We have heard from the minister that we are exploring this because we think there is quite a large amount of money left. At the same time, we are still considering the fact that we need to find a way to ensure that those people pre-1986 and post-1990 are not allowed to live their lives in poverty and without any dignity or assistance. We are talking about how we get there, not whether we get there.
That is what is left to be debated and discussed by the minister and that is what will go to cabinet. I can assure members that the political will is there to meet the needs of the people whom I have met. I have patients, from the time I was practising medicine, who fall into the category of people who are currently destitute and have no ability to help themselves. What we do for them is absolutely important. How we do it, I would like to reiterate, is the point that we need to discuss.