Madam Speaker, I am pleased to participate in the debate on Bill C-24. I did have a much longer speech, but I listened very carefully this afternoon to a number of the members. We have strayed quite a ways from Bill C-24 from time to time, but I think it is important because virtually everything we do in this place is inextricably linked to everything else that happens.
Having said that, I have often thought that the measure of success of a country is not an economic measure, but rather a measure of the health and well-being of its people. When we went through this debate today, one of the things we talked about was fiscal imbalance. It seems to connote that something has differed from region to region and from province to province and that something in our system somehow does not quite match up.
The Constitution, under section 36, provides for equalization, but it is this act that Bill C-24 is amending, the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act, that provides the detail on how it would be divvied up in accordance with the agreement between the provinces and the federal government.
I was going to talk about some of the numbers, but I think I want to go back to this whole concept of fiscal imbalance. I was looking at some briefing notes and I noticed that fiscal imbalance in fact has two different forms. One is horizontal and one is vertical. We have to start thinking about some of this.
The horizontal actually refers to the imbalance province to province to province. That is exactly what equalization intends to try to cover. If we were to look, for instance, under the Canada Health Act, we would see that we have the five principles of medicare, those being universality, portability, accessibility, comprehensiveness, and public administration.
The portability one certainly touches on this aspect of horizontal balance, or imbalance as some might argue. Can we say with some certitude that we have portability, comprehensiveness and accessibility province to province to province? I am pretty sure that we cannot. I am pretty sure that we cannot go to every place in Canada and expect to get the same level of comprehensiveness and accessibility in all disciplines of medicine.
So are we really meeting the objectives under the Canada Health Act? Or are there other ways to do it given that we have geographic disparities in our country and we also have other problems?
Money deals with part of that, but the other part, the more important one, which I think members have talked about a lot more, is called the vertical fiscal imbalance. This is between the federal and the provincial governments and whether or not there is enough money being transferred down.
I can recall giving speeches in this place where I talked about what provincial governments were doing at the same time that the federal government was trying to fight a $42 billion deficit back in 1993. How did this go forward? I talked a lot about it and I tried to stick to my own turf about Ontario. All I know is that at the time Ontario was cutting taxes. That was the big deal: to cut taxes. Suddenly today we find that Ontario is in a deficit position. At the same time, to deal with it, what were they doing? Not only was the Conservative government cutting taxes; it was also downloading costs to the municipalities to deal with their problem and then it was blaming the federal government.
Sometimes provinces will argue that all the problems they have are federal, but let us look at what the facts are. Provinces in fact have every opportunity to raise money that the federal government does. The provinces have the ability to charge personal income taxes, which they do. Corporate income taxes, sales taxes and payroll taxes all are common to the federal and provincial governments.
In addition, they also can tax resource royalties within provincial jurisdiction. That is unique to the provinces. The provinces also have control over gaming and liquor profits, and I believe there are some other ones, but they are uniquely provincial, and then there are property taxes within the non-federal jurisdictions.
To the federal government's credit, we have revenues from custom import duties and taxes to non-residents.
The point is that provincial governments have all the tools to raise the revenue to do what they need to do to meet their obligations under the Constitution. It is the Constitution that provides the division of responsibilities between governments.
If the provincial governments want to play a different game, that is their own purview. If they need funds to meet their obligations, how can they cut taxes? How can the Province of Ontario cut taxes, put itself into a deficit and say that it needs more help?
The federal government is still ultimately responsible for everything to do with the health and well-being of its people, so that we work with the provinces, whether it be on the health file or whatever file, and members will know that the health of Canadians and our health care system is the most important priority of Canadians.
How about an issue such as cities and communities? Why is it, for instance, that a municipality that charges property taxes to take care of infrastructure, with capital payments as well as operating expenditures of a municipality, suddenly is getting help from the highest level, the federal level of government, to assist with roads, bridges and sewers? Then it turns around and starts using the savings it has from not funding its own infrastructure to do other things that have nothing to do with the critical priorities of the community.
We all pay property taxes so we can see that level to level to level there are decisions to be taken, but if we look at what has happened in the Ontario model, for one, we see that we had a situation where, notwithstanding the pressures that are put on to deliver health care services, child care services, infrastructure assistance and environmental investments at the provincial level, the province substantively has seconded that responsibility to the federal government.
Can the federal government say no? Let us consider where we have been. The Government of Canada, through good fiscal management, has been able to produce surpluses and to pay down debt as well as provide tax cuts and enhancements to social programs. It is a balanced approach. It is the balanced approach that has not occurred in the provinces consistently. That has not been fiscally responsible.
All members of Parliament have to make sure, notwithstanding the specific case with regard to the resource revenues for Newfoundland and Labrador and for Nova Scotia, that in the broader context every level of government has to demonstrate fiscal responsibility.
Maybe it is time we had a report card. We need a report card to the people of each municipality, to the people of each province and to the people of Canada on whether or not fiscal responsibility has been achieved, whether or not they have taken on their responsibilities as outlined in the Constitution and as outlined in the provincial revenue-sharing agreements they have with the municipalities and the regions.
I will give hon. members one example, even in Mississauga, and then close. When I returned to my constituency last Friday, I received a note from a senior, a lady I know who keeps me informed about seniors' issues, to advise me that on December 8 there is a meeting at city council where there will be a vote to increase the cost of seniors' transit passes by an additional 25% each year for the next four years. Is this fiscal responsibility?
I am sure we can all find examples. Fiscal responsibility must occur at all levels. I believe that members will find and all agree that in Bill C-24 the arrangements made with the provinces with regard to the $10.9 billion that has been--