Debates of Nov. 4th, 2004

Supply

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, St. Croix—Belleisle, NB]

Mr. Speaker, on October 22, I put a question to the Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency. The point I was making in that exchange on that Friday afternoon was the fact that Liberal members of Parliament were suggesting that ACOA was not working properly and that there was patronage and unfairness in that agency.

I know how the minister will respond to that. He will say that the mere fact that the member is complaining about not getting anything indicates that patronage must not exist. However, that member is not inside the Liberal inner circle. I think he speaks with some authority and some accuracy, and he is not alone in his thoughts.

When I made those statements in the House in my preamble to my question to the minister, he thought I was referring to the former president of ACOA, Norman Spector, who happened to be hired under the previous Conservative regime. However, I was not referring to Mr. Spector, although he went on in the same tone that the member for Miramichi did, in that it was commonplace during his tenure that Liberal members of Parliament would call up and force him to do a deal, and ministers would routinely do that.

There is further evidence by others in the public that ACOA needs revamping. I have suggested some of these things publically as well. There is the former premier of New Brunswick, Frank McKenna, and most of us in this place have heard that name. Here is the headline from the Moncton Times & Transcript , of September 30. It states, “McKenna thrashes feds; Former premier says economic prosperity for Atlantic Canada needs changes to immigration, a tax credit, revamped ACOA”. He went on in detail on what he thought should happen. The fact is ACOA has to be depoliticized.

One of the points I made to the minister, and I tried to emphasize this in some of the interviews I provided to the press after some of these exchanges, involved the board of directors at ACOA. Let us put some authority in its hands and let us find a new way to choose that board. It should not just serve at the pleasure of the prime minister or cabinet of the day. Let us have some independence in terms of how that board is selected. Let us select professional people who make decisions outside this partisan arena.

It is fine to stand in the House to criticize the agency and the minister, but in that criticism I am offering very positive suggestions. I suggest that the minister take a look at this proposal. Let us start with the agency and the board. I am not critical of the individuals on the board, but I do not think they should be subservient to the prime minister of Canada and to the minister. Let us give that board some real powers. If we are to start, let us start there and attempt to revamp the agency. We do not need to reinvent the wheel. Let us give that a try and see how it works. I look forward to the minister's response to that very positive suggestion.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, as the minister responsible for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, it is my responsibility to help build a stronger economy in Atlantic Canada, and I take the job most seriously.

In discharging my responsibilities, I know I have a caucus and colleagues from across Atlantic Canada who share my belief that the Government of Canada can and must make a meaningful contribution to regional development in this country.

Our government's commitment to this principle was underscored in the Speech from the Throne, which reads:

Canada's regional economies are a vital source of economic strength and stability. Support for regional and rural economic development will target the fundamentals...by employing the regional agencies and tools such as the Atlantic Innovation Fund.

The Prime Minister himself summed it up best in his reply to the Speech from the Throne when he said:

We believe that Canada is strongest when all parts are strong.

That is what Canada is all about and that is why ACOA exists. What it does is work in partnerships with universities and colleges to generate more research and development; with banks and other commercial lenders to make sure that entrepreneurs have access to capital to start and grow their businesses; with other federal departments and provinces to promote trade and investment; and with tourism industry associations to market and promote the region as a prime tourism destination.

Now I would like to turn to some of the politically motivated allegations made by the hon. member. First and foremost, the member should know that 100%, that is each and every investment decision made by the agency, is based on due diligence and careful assessment by ACOA officials on a business plan or a project proposal.

As I have pointed out on a number of occasions, since 1996 ACOA issues repayable loans to commercial clients instead of grants. Ninety-eight per cent of ACOA's business loans, including all those below $500,000, are approved, not by the ACOA minister directly, and certainly not by other members of Parliament, as has been suggested, but by the agency's senior executives in the four Atlantic provinces.

The average funding per project provided by ACOA is in the order of $156,000. It is very clear that the ACOA minister does not even see the vast majority of these applications.

Secondly, it is worth noting that the Auditor General of Canada has undertaken two comprehensive audits of the agency, one in 1995 and the other in 2001, and found on both occasions that the management practices at the agency were very good.

Finally, one of the ideas that has been put forward by the member for New Brunswick Southwest is an arm's length board of directors that would have final say in all funding applications.

ACOA does have an advisory board comprised of highly capable and dedicated Atlantic Canadians. They meet regularly and provide valuable advice to the minister on a variety of policy and strategic matters.

Prior to 1993, the board had 18 members who were involved in making recommendations to the minister on all projects over $500,000. In 1994, the government asked Dr. Donald Savoie to review the board's role. On the strength of his findings, not only did we significantly reduce the number of members but we also ended the board's involvement in reviewing and recommending funding approvals. That role now rests with agency officials who live and work in communities across the region.

The reality is this. ACOA is making a difference. It is making a difference in Gander, Truro, Bloomfield, Glace Bay, Bathurst, Antigonish and it is making a difference in St. Stephen.

I urge the hon. member to tone down the rhetoric and work with all Atlantic Canadians to move the region forward.

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, St. Croix—Belleisle, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think the rhetoric is over the top. I think we are being pretty thoughtful in some of the ideas we are putting forward. I am speaking in the same tone as the former premier of New Brunswick. He believes that the agency has to be revamped, that it has to follow another model and that it has to be renewed, and that is what we are suggesting to the minister.

We understand there are problems with the agency but it is time the government recognize that. The government has been in power now going on 12 years. It cannot blame all of the mistakes of ACOA on the past regime. I have often suggested that the former Conservative government made mistakes at ACOA as well, but this is the year 2004. It simply cannot go back to the past and pretend there is nothing wrong with the agency.

We have some very positive suggestions. We know political interference does occur, and there are many examples--

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)]

The Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to quote two passages. First, the hon. member said on May 4, 2004:

There is hardly an area or community within New Brunswick Southwest that hasn't benefited directly from ACOA's programs. The list of firms that used ACOA support to expand and create direct jobs reads like a who's who of successful business and industries all across the riding.

Second, David Ganong said:

Here in Atlantic Canada, private companies do not have enough access to capital. And for companies like Ganong--that want and need to grow--to effectively compete, ACOA has filled a very meaningful role.

That is why it is still in St. Stephen, that is why it is still in his riding, and not in Montreal or Ontario.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)]

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 o'clock a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6.37 p.m.)