Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to the comments of the hon. member for Winnipeg North. I sit on the finance committee with her. I have respect for her and welcome her point of view.
I hope the member would recognize the willingness of members of government to listen to people and to get their input for the budget. I hope she would acknowledge that the Liberals on that committee are just as attentive as the other members to the over 250 groups we have interviewed so far in the process this fall.
With respect to the issue of the surplus, the comment I would throw back to the hon. member is this. I presume she is aware that when this government took over from the previous Conservative government, we were in a situation where about 39¢ of every dollar went to the national debt. It is now around 19¢ of each dollar and the goal is to go to 12¢, which would represent 25% debt to GNP ratio. This will coincide with the time baby boomers start to achieve retirement age and will enable the government to deal with the increased costs associated with an aging population.
There is no suggestion that all the surplus should go there, but enough of it should go to do that. An error in the 1% projection either way in terms of both expenses and revenue projections will result in approximately a $4 billion shift. The $9 billion--