Madam Speaker, the hon. member's question perfectly illustrates the challenge of resolving this issue.
At the beginning of my speech, I said that members' salaries had been discussed in both parliaments in which I have sat, and, in each, at least on two occasions, if not more.
All sorts of suggestions were made. Some claimed, I think quite rightly, that members' salaries should be tied to collective wealth. Others claimed that members should accept the lowest index based on a certain number of similar categories. Still others claimed that pay increases should be comparable to those given to government officials. Every possible suggestion was made.
Our own personal values can guide us in choosing one method over another. As to the hon. member's concerns, one thing is certain. We were all taken by surprise to see a potential salary increase of 10%. We are not irresponsible.
So what should members' salaries be based on? The mechanism proposed by the government leader is not a bad idea. To some degree, it could be considered fair in relation to society. I do not know. It is a difficult issue to resolve.
This is why the sensitive issue of the salary of parliamentarians should be taken out of our hands. The process must be based on something else. It should not be up to us to decide how much we will pay ourselves, or what criteria will apply. In fact, this is why we had all agreed, that is the New Democratic Party, the Bloc Québécois, the Conservative Party of Canada and the Liberals on a process whereby a committee would make an independent review of the judges' salary. This is what was proposed to us by the other side.
What I find most despicable is that while the government was proposing that approach, which we found to be fair, this whole thing came up with the Prime Minister and the leak in the media. The Deputy Prime Minister was going around, telling everyone not to compare the salaries of members with those of judges, because the work was not the same. What do we compare an MP to? to a church warden? To a city councillor? To who? To an American senator? We cannot compare members of Parliament to other groups, because they do a different and unique type of work.
It seems to me that the person who makes the legislation is, in a way, rather close to the person who interprets the legislation and the person who defends it. We are part of a legislative system. The Deputy Prime Minister told us that it was outrageous, that we had nothing in common with judges. Today, we are being asked to give ourselves a salary increase as if we were plumbers, plant workers, nurses or electricians. Perhaps the Deputy Prime Minister finds the work done by these groups more closely related to the duties of a member of Parliament.
This is ridiculous. These arguments are only meant to serve the interests of those who use them. What we are saying is that there is no ideal indexation. There is no solution. It will always be a painful debate. It is a painful debate right now. This is why we are not asking for any raise of the members' salaries.
We think that this is far from being an urgent matter. We could very well take a fresh second look at the issue, as regards both members of Parliament and judges. We could consider suggestions, such as the one made by the hon. member, or other ones that may be made here today. This would be much more responsible than the approach used by a government that is panicking and trying to save face for the Prime Minister and justify the commitments that he made in an unacceptable fashion. This is what is happening here and this is what we object to.