Debates of Feb. 12th, 2004

Diocesan Church of Joliette

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the centenary celebrations of the diocesan church of Joliette have just been launched. The theme: Fire up your heart...Dare to hope.

In 1904, the church of St-Charles was made the cathedral of the new diocese of Joliette, which at the time comprised 40 parishes and one mission. Mgr. Joseph-Alfred Archambault was its first bishop. The diocese has had its great moments since then, but its tragic ones as well. These include the fire in 1935 that levelled the convent of the Congrégation Notre-Dame.

Celebrations and activities will fill the coming months as the diocese celebrates this historic event, which will remain engraved in our memories. These will include a youth rally, outdoor activities, a procession through the city, the Lanaudière painting and sculpture exposition, a travelling exhibit, another large rally and a centenary pilgrimage. I invite everyone to come and help mark this joyous yet solemn occasion, as the Diocese of Joliette celebrates its founding on January 27, 1904 by His Holiness Pope Pius X.

My sincere best wishes for a highly successful celebration to Mgr. Gilles Lussier, the president of the centenary celebration committee Réjean Parent, and his whole team of volunteers.

Claude Ryan

[Yvon Charbonneau, Liberal, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with the passing of Claude Ryan, Quebec and Canada have just lost a remarkable man, a man whose intellectual and political pursuits left an impact on 40 years of our history.

The indefatigable Mr. Ryan was involved in all our social and political debates, from the time of the quiet revolution until very recently. I knew him as an editorial writer and as a minister who did an excellent job, particularly in the educational sector.

A proud Quebecker, he was able to rally around him a broad social and political coalition in his opposition to the October 1970 war measures. I am proud to have been part of that coalition as a member of the labour movement.

Throughout all those years, Claude Ryan never stopped working to have Quebec recognized as a strong society, a respected society taking its rightful place within the Canadian federal entity.

Thank you, Mr. Ryan, for all that you contributed to the public life of our country. Thank you for all your advice to me over the years; it played a large part in my decision to enter politics in 1994 in order to defend the unity of our country, to defend Quebec, and to defend those most often forgotten by the government.

Agriculture

[Carol Skelton, Canadian Alliance, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians know the devastating effect that BSE border bans have had on our cattle farmers. What many fail to understand is that these bans affect many more producers and types of livestock than just cattle. The current ban affects species that are not affected by BSE, like bison, sheep, goats and cervids. These farm families are desperate, too.

The government has ignored these other livestock farms as well. The government has failed to provide them with any help, direction or hope that their lives will return to normal in the foreseeable future. The government needs to focus on helping livestock producers instead of trying to cover up its corruption. The government needs to remember that farm families provide the engine for our rural economies.

If as much effort was put into solving agricultural problems as was put into the Liberal culture of corruption, Canadians would all be much further ahead.

Skate Canada Junior Nationals

[Paul Devillers, Liberal, Simcoe North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is my honour to congratulate the gold medal winners of the Bank of Montreal Skate Canada Junior Nationals held recently in Ottawa.

The winners in the individual category were: Amanda Valentine of Ontario for novice women; Patrick Chan of Ontario for novice men; Jeremy Ten of British Columbia for pre-novice men; Natalie Kwong of Ontario for pre-novice women; Ronald Lam of British Columbia for juvenile men; and Karel Di Bartolo of Quebec for juvenile women.

The winners in pairs were: Sarah Burke and Eric Radford of Ontario for novice; Kyra and Dylan Moscovitch of Ontario for pre-novice; and Katherine and Alexandre Pigeon of Quebec for juvenile.

The winners in dance were: Andrea Chong and Spencer Barnes of Ontario for novice; Joanna Lenko and Mitchell Islam of Ontario for pre-novice; and Katherine Fenscke and Martin Nickel of Manitoba for juvenile.

These young Canadian athletes have brilliantly struggled to find the support needed to pursue and achieve their goals of athletic excellence.

Also worthy of commendation for their contributions to the competition, along with all volunteers, are Leslie Jeneau, Kay Bierko and coach Christine McBeth.

Government Contracts

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, on the culture of corruption, the Prime Minister's latest mantra is, “It wasn't me, it wasn't me”. Well, I have seven kids and I have heard that excuse a thousand times.

Will the Prime Minister simply stand up and take his personal responsibility for this Liberal scandal?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there is a collective responsibility that cabinet assumes and we have all assumed that collective responsibility.

At the same time, there is a collective responsibility to make this right and that means to find out the guilty people and to bring them to justice.

It means that we put in place the measures that would not allow that to happen and this cabinet and the government also accept that collective responsibility.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I met with a former Treasury Board president today and she said there is just no way the Prime Minister did not know what was going on. She does not believe him. In fact the former deputy prime minister said exactly the same thing. She is a member of his party, at least for now.

My question is, will the Prime Minister stick to his story of the day, that he was just simply duped and in the dark?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member ought to begin now, after three days of this debate, to deal with the fundamental issues of how we deal with it, who are the guilty people and where do we go from here.

There is a problem which is that the role of the comptroller general, as an example, was eviscerated. The comptroller general did not have the capacity of going to the department. Under the delegation of authority, departments had the complete right, once they were allocated the envelope, to spend the money as they saw fit. That was the problem.

We have said we are going to fix it. We are talking about what we are going to do in the future. Where is the hon. member and his party?

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, this is unbelievable. We started out with a national disgrace that required a public inquiry. Next, a small band of public servants were duping the Prime Minister. Now former prime minister Jean Chrétien is the one responsible. It is unbelievable.

He is the Prime Minister of Canada. He should stand up and act like it.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order please, It is very difficult for the Chair to hear the answer. There was not really a question, but there was an exhortation and I presume there will be another, but we have to be able to hear the remarks that are made in the House. The right hon. Prime Minister has the floor. A little order, please.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member does not play phony indignation very well.

The fact is what I have said is that there was a small group of people, and associated in the whole act of complicity, according to the Auditor General, were certainly a number of crown corporations. In addition to that there is a group of people who must have given the orders.

The reason we have called for a public inquiry is to make sure that that small group of unidentified people is brought to justice

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, speaking of phony, what a wicked web the Prime Minister weaves when he suggests that he knew nothing--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order please, Once again we need to have some order. The hon. member for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough has the floor to ask a question. How can anybody answer if they cannot hear the question?

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

They are sensitive over there today, Mr. Speaker.

What a wicked web the Prime Minister weaves when he suggests today, as he did in his press conference, that he knew nothing of this scandal until the Auditor General reported it just last year.

I have a specific question for the Prime Minister. Prior to the year 2002, did the Prime Minister meet with Chuck Guité, Claude Boulay and others to discuss the organization and distribution of advertising contracts in his home province of Quebec?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

No, Mr. Speaker.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I have a second and supplementary question for the Prime Minister. Was he part of any discussions that took place shortly after the referendum, as a result of that, pertaining to the sponsorship program in his home province of Quebec? In another question, does he specifically deny ever having conversations with the former prime minister, his predecessor, about this sponsorship program?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the sponsorship program was brought in publicly by the government in order to provide Canadians with an understanding of what their government was doing when it was supporting festivals. It was discussed quite generally. It was hardly a secret. That is not where the problem lay.

The problem did not lay with the concept of the sponsorship program, although some approved of it and some did not. The real problem was what happened to certain people who got their hands on the money. That is where the problem lay. That was at the heart of the problem.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine said she raised the sponsorship issue in caucus as early as 1999. She asked, among other things, why grants were going to companies that had not done anything. The Prime Minister said it was an administrative problem. It is not administrative, but criminal to pay money to people who have done nothing.

My question is for the Prime Minister. In light of the principle he has just announced at a press conference, that those who knew and did nothing should step down, should he not lead by example and step down himself?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it was the deputy minister himself, when he was testifying before the committee in charge of reviewing expenses, who said that the problem that year was an administrative problem. It was the same year the whole Groupaction affair came to light. But it was the deputy minister himself who, after having done an internal audit, said it was an administrative problem.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, by hiding behind a flimsy argument like that, he makes it obvious that this action is criminal. In the case of the Prime Minister, who was finance minister and vice-president of the Treasury Board, could we speak not of departmental solidarity, but rather of departmental complicity?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think it is much of a revelation to imagine or hear that members of caucus were talking about the sponsorship program. Some may have had concerns about it. That is very likely where the initial concerns came from that led to the administrative review and the internal audit in 2000.

That went on with an administrative review, with an action plan, as far as cabinet was reported to and Treasury Board was reported to, of how to deal with the administrative difficulties. It was the member for Glengarry--Prescott--Russell, then, when he became minister of public works, who identified the problem and referred Groupaction to the Auditor General--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Lotbinière-L'Érable.