Debates of March 10th, 2004

Haiti

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Chair, I wish to thank the hon. member very much for his comments.

I took from his speech that he agreed with our premise that Haiti was a situation in the hemisphere with a great crisis taking place, and Canada could not have stood back and not have intervened, in conjunction with other parties that were capable of doing it.

In terms of the principles which justify our action, in this case it was clear that we were willing to intervene. We were only willing to intervene if others that had the capacity were willing to intervene. We were not prepared to intervene by ourselves. Also, we were only willing to intervene in the case of international legitimacy.

As I said in my speech, that legitimacy was conferred by the Security Council resolution. I do not accept the member's point that this was a regime change, any more than I accepted his views about the issue of Baghdad.

If the member had clearly said, at the time of Baghdad, that his party was in favour of regime change, that might have been a different debate. However, members will recall that in that debate we were faced with the terror of weapons of mass destruction which were going to come and destroy us all at any moment. Nobody at that point in that debate was discussing the legitimacy of regime change and this was not a regime change.

Mr. Aristide resigned. The new president, as the chief justice, was sworn in in accordance with the constitution and the Security Council took it on that basis.

I do not quite accept that. I do accept the member's point that we have to be active in the United Nations about democracy and about building democracy. Ultimately, countries will not survive and Haiti will not survive if we cannot build democracy in Haiti. That is what we will all be called upon to do. It will be a very challenging process. I agree with the hon. member in that respect.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Chair, I am trying to distill the question from the observant remarks.

I will respond with a comment and a question. The minister has said that the only reason we went into Haiti was because there was some kind of international agreement. Is the minister saying that we would not have gone in to protect Canadians unless some other countries said it was all right to do so?

The point here is that Canada should never relinquish its sovereignty to any other country or to any other international body. Yes, as far as possible, let us work with other international organizations, including the United Nations. Yes, let us always look for ways that we can achieve things multilaterally.

Is the minister saying that unless other countries approved, we might not have sent our troops in to extricate Canadians from a difficult situation, that we would wait for, let us say, Finland or Thailand to say it was all right to go in and protect Canadians? These are the very things on which we need clarifications.

I would suggest that this was clearly a regime change. We have Mr. Aristide, now from another country, encouraging his supporters to rise up and support his presidency. This was clearly a regime change. Whether we like to admit it or not, we took part.

This underlines my point that we need some clear criteria. When do we send our armed forces into another country to possibly take action, to disarm and possibly engage in combat, and protect our citizens? These questions go unanswered.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Chair, I would have liked to have heard the comments of our colleague across the way on the future of Haiti itself. It is all very well to spout a lot of words, concepts and rhetoric, but I think my colleague, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, has made it extremely clear that a distinction has to be made between the multilateral approach and the fact that we have certain responsibilities because Haiti is within our hemisphere.

I have met many members of the very large Haitian diaspora in Canada, particularly in Quebec. Close to 120,000 out of 150,000 are in Montreal. They called upon us to take action, that is to disarm. I am not referring to the regime, but to the people of Haiti. When they watch television, it hits very close to home for them, because their relatives are being killed back there.

I would like to hear what the opposition members have to propose in order to ensure that we can save Haiti in the long term, while fulfilling our obligations. Does the hon. member believe more should be invested in institutional reform, in education for the younger generations? One of the problems is that the reason why the chimeres exist is the poverty and violence.

If there is a focus on the very culture of democracy, education, training, and the dignity gained by being able to work again, would the member of the official opposition then agree that we invest more to save the Haitian people, once the situation has stabilized?

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is important to recognize that it is not only a question of rhetoric for soldiers and their families. It is not a question of rhetoric; this is a serious matter.

Here in Parliament we do not have a list of standards to follow when it comes to intervening in another country. It is not a question of rhetoric. We do not have a list for this purpose and that is dangerous because it gives the government the opportunity to change the way it acts from one day to the next with no reason.

It is also important to talk about the principles that I mentioned: freedom, the economy, the right to own property. It is very important that our government declare within the United Nations that these are fundamental principles, as is education, of course. Nonetheless, we do not have the opportunity to influence education when we are not there to promote the other fundamental principles. In addition to education there is also health.

At the United Nations Canada rarely talks about the principles of freedom in a way that would force dictators and other leaders to listen and be influenced.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to discuss this with my colleague on the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, with whom I have even travelled to countries where the political situation was difficult, although we never encountered anything similar to what was happening in Haiti when the UN forces went in. That is what I would like to discuss with him, and then ask him a question.

Is it not in a time like this, or the time we have just come through, that we need an organization like the UN Security Council? Some may say that it needs to be reformed, that countries like Brazil and India should counterbalance the big five, and I agree. Nevertheless, we need an organization with tested principles.

I would also like to remind him—and have his comments on this—that, in 1994, the UN authorized soldiers, 20,000 American soldiers, to restore President Aristide to power.

Is it not in times like this that we want to participate in UN activities and that we need this organization?

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Chair, we do need such an organization, and we must collaborate with it, of course. However, we must also recognize that the UN is not a perfect organization.

For example, when in Rwanda, General Dallaire asked Kofi Annan to send armed forces to prevent the massacres, but the UN did not do as he asked.

Of course, we have to collaborate with these organizations, and also bring our suggestions to improve that organization in particular. Still, our sovereignty is very important. That is why it is essential to recognize that, if there is a need to protect Canadians, in Haiti for example, there must be criteria for action. Of course, we must collaborate, but we must recognize all the same that the UN is not—

[The Chair]

The hon. member for Mercier.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, first of all in this brief speech, I would like to express solidarity with the Haitians in Haiti and the Haitian community in Montreal, as well as the rest of the community, present in other parts of Quebec and instrumental in its growth, as I have pointed out before.

Even if the situation seems to have stabilized somewhat, we must agree that things are still very bad, judging by reports from the NGOs and the media. There is looting, and men, women and children are still dying. Security is not yet perfectly restored. The situation is still precarious.

This year was the 200th anniversary of Haitian independence. Such a sad event to take place during this anniversary year.

I must make it clear to begin with that the Bloc Quebecois not only accepts the UN's involvement in this difficult situation, we welcome it. I would like to read a few excerpts from the resolution adopted on February 29. The UN reacted quickly, and the Security Council met within hours of president Aristide's departure. The preamble to the resolution contains the following:

Stressing the need to create a secure environment in Haiti and the region that enables respect for human rights, including the well-being of civilians, and supports the mission of humanitarian workers...

Taking note of the resignation of Jean-Bertrand Aristide as President of Haiti and the swearing-in of President Boniface Alexandre as the acting President of Haiti in accordance with the Constitution of Haiti,

Acknowledging the appeal of the new President of Haiti for the urgent support of the international community to assist in restoring peace and security in Haiti and to further the constitutional political process now under way...

Determining that the situation in Haiti constitutes a threat to international peace and security and to stability in the Caribbean, especially through the potential outflow of people to other States in the subregion,

Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations...

This is why there are armed military personnel there. They move on to their intentions, but I will not read it all. It is worthwhile reading, however, and could act as a basis for action by the international community, Canada included.

I will take this opportunity to reply to one of the questions that the Minister of Foreign Affairs asked a while ago; do we not want Canada to be a leader? I say right away that I certainly would like Canada to be a leader. But I only hear our country talking like a leader. If we are not present, or if we do not invest enough, I will keep on asking the country to be a leader and reminding it that it must not only be a leader in words but in deeds as well.

This is an important point in the debate raised by ex-President Aristide. This must bother a lot of people in Haiti, but not only the Haitians, because it is also the case here and in South America. We know there are regimes that do not necessarily have the support of the American superpower. I am thinking of Argentina, of course. These declarations and these appeals by ex-President Aristide—if we rely on the UN resolution—are very troubling.

I must say that if this is what happened—if there was a kidnapping, as he claims—that would be unacceptable.

I take it as a fact that he resigned, based on what I read and heard in the early hours after his departure from Haiti. Moreover, I issued a statement to thank him for making that decision—a very courageous decision and the best one to get his country through this crisis.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs has asked us not to dwell on the past, but we must speak about the recent past. Like the hon. member opposite, I have received requests from members of the community, especially beginning in December when there was a real escalation of human rights violations in Haiti.

The NGOs of Quebec who have members in Haiti were terribly worried about the lives of the people who work for and with them down there. The human rights violations burst into view in a most disturbing way during the demonstration at the university on December 5. The rector of the university had his legs broken by supporters of President Aristide, the ones called “chimères”—who operate under the benevolent eye of the police. Then things continued to escalate.

I was following the situation closely and, on that occasion, I urged the Canadian government to be more firm with President Aristide. The fact is that Canada took a long time to condemn the events that occurred at the university. In fact, the United States, France and other countries did so long before us.

I do not want to dwell on this situation, but I should point out that there was an escalation, which was again recently condemned by the issue table. Currently, the major problem is the presence of numerous weapons in Haiti. I know that the hon. member for Saint-Jean will talk about this. These are not just small calibre guns; there are also large calibre weapons. Aristide himself armed his supporters. We know that they are the ones who turned against him in Gonaïves. The rebels arrived with arms, and there were various groups. This is not to mention the banditry and all these private security forces.

The Minister of National Defence must reassure us regarding this issue. A disarmament process must take place. Otherwise, there can be no security and there cannot even be humanitarian work. Indeed, we will not be able to reach the regions that were cut off. We are told that access has not been restored everywhere.

We are still working on an emergency basis. Fortunately, we have this international force. However, it is working under extremely difficult conditions, as we saw during the Sunday protest with what happened close to the palace.

Haitian people need to hear this. They are the ones who will rebuild Haiti by establishing democratic institutions. However, they must be able to rely on the international community. First, the international community has a responsibility regarding the events that have occurred in recent years.

In 1994, when the UN authorized—we could get the resolution out again, but we do not have time to read it—the international forces to bring Aristide back, there was also a whole program, a plan. But we left quickly. That is why Kofi Annan asked us to be patient this time. He said that it would take at least 10 years. So, the international community has a responsibility in that it left.

I heard about what had happened, but I read it in the report prepared for CIDA on the training of police officers. We found that former President Aristide politicized all senior management positions in the police force. From that point on, the force was no longer an independent body that should operate at arm's length to ensure that the rights of all citizens are protected and respected. We saw the abuse that resulted from this situation. So, we will have to pledge to help—

[The Deputy Chair]

I regret to interrupt the hon. member, but her time is up. The hon. President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for taking part in this debate. It is not my intention to correct her, but only to inform her that, after the events of December 5, an important meeting, the Conférence ministérielle de la Francophonie, was held in Paris. Canada proposed a resolution of condemnation. Therefore, Canada also gave a response.

I want to come back to the future, because the past cannot be changed. During meetings with the diaspora, but also when I went to Port-au-Prince, we held discussions with numerous partners, including the opposition, and one reality remains: we must put an end to the eternal recommencement. Haiti has experienced 34 coups in 200 years. A viable and lasting solution needs to be found.

I would like the member to talk a little about the role of the international community. Mistakes were made in 1994. Everybody agrees on that. There is a great deal of talk about the institutional reform of education. I talked earlier about helping the younger generations. My colleague talked about agricultural reform. CIDA has done its job in that area, and this needs to continue, in my opinion.

However, because I am the minister responsible for the Francophonie, I would like to know how, for example, she sees the role of various international organizations, such as the Francophonie, as Canada simultaneously fulfils its role, bilaterally, with Haiti.

Perhaps she could tell us more about her vision of the future and the role that the Francophonie or other organizations can play, while respecting the fact that Haitians want their own government, want an election held as soon as possible and want their own institutions? And how can we decide on what day our role ends and that country takes responsibility for governing itself, and avoid talk of interference in Haiti?

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would say to the minister that this calls for at least a summit.

I want to start by putting the question back to the minister, although it is not a real question. I would like to ask him whether at the end of the disturbing weekend of February 28 and 29, he heard Dany Laferrière, whose name we can use because he is a novelist, poet and artist. He is a Haitian who has not lived in Haiti for some time, but is deeply committed and loves his people. It was extraordinary how he explained this to us. He told us that there have been 34 coups d'état. He said that Haitians were once slaves who became independent 200 years ago, but resisted.

I had the opportunity to be on the same set with him at RDI and I was telling Mr. Drainville that the Haitian community here helped build Quebec and that we must help them build Haiti. I quoted Louis Joinet, from the UN, who said he had hope because of all the people who managed to survive under difficult conditions, including magistrates.

Dany Laferrière said that Haitians are extraordinary, that they needed resources and that they obtained them under difficult conditions. We must not forget, however, that more than 60% are illiterate. It is not for nothing that there are few newspapers and the radio is very popular there.

To answer the question, I would say there are two main aspects, one being the enormous need. It will take more than investments of $25 million a year. There are needs in education and infrastructure. I am sorry to say, but they need sewers. This is essential or there will be a serious health problem. They talk about rebuilding infrastructure, but in most cases it is a matter of building, period.

There are environmental problems. I was told that the forest cover is only 1% or 3%. In that respect as well, the international community has a responsibility, but we will not get into that.

Basic investments need to be made. Plans need to be made by Haitians with the help of experts, but major investments are needed.

The other aspect is the cooperation of the international community, cooperation between countries. One of the bad things about international aid is that each party does its own thing. There is no synergy and perhaps there is a loss of efficiency, if not actual waste.

There needs to be smart funding, but political will as well. We are counting on the government and we will remind it of that obligation.

[Jay Hill, Canadian Alliance, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Chair, one of the things which, to be quite honest, really disappointed me was when the Prime Minister flew down to the United Nations to make a presentation and then took that opportunity to announce that Canada would be participating in assisting the Haitians. I said at the time that certainly I think all Canadians want to help Haiti through this difficult time, and certainly the Conservative Party of Canada is no exception to that.

Having said that, I was absolutely dismayed when he held a press conference in New York and reporters put questions to him, which I thought were valid questions, and he had no idea what he was committing our nation and our young men and women in the armed forces to. He did not know how many troops, where they would come from, whose command they would be under, what the terms of engagement would be, how much it would cost, or where the money would come from. Frankly he did not know anything. He was committing our country to this mission with no understanding of what the mission would be, how it would be accomplished or who would take it on.

I was equally dismayed when I put a question to the Minister of Foreign Affairs at the start of this debate following his presentation. He could not answer whether our troop commitment to Haiti would be funded out of the existing limited resources of the Department of National Defence or whether this would be an extra fund that was approved by cabinet and provided to pay for this mission to Haiti.

It seems to me that the government is taking a very haphazard approach to this, as it often does with foreign affairs and foreign commitments. I wonder if the member has equal concerns about the way in which the Prime Minister seems to follow in the steps of his predecessor, making up foreign policy in front of a television camera.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for his question. This is, of course, a matter of concern, but my concern was that we have heard the Prime Minister speak of Canada playing a lead role, yet he did not know how many troops would be sent and when.

Last Friday, I received a briefing—as you no doubt did as well—and asked when we would know the date of departure of the troops and the size of the contingent. Even though the person I was talking to was not just anybody, his answer was “I cannot tell you that yet”.

As I said to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, it is all very well for Canada to style itself as a leader, but it must actually be one as well. It seems to me that this will require a fair amount of reorganization. In this instance, they have not walked the walk, but just talked the talk. I have issued a press release in which I stated that the Haitians would have been in a fine mess if they had waited for the Canadian army to defend them. That is not just rhetoric, it is the truth.

Fortunately, they are now there. When the Canadians are there, they are good. The Haitians will reap the benefits and can count on their help in particular with the disarmament aspect. Hon. members will agree with me that, without that, everything else will be pointless and the situation will perhaps even end up worse than before.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to begin by asking a question. Why is it necessary for Canada to do something about Haiti? I can answer simply that we have many reasons. It is the only other francophone country in this hemisphere. It is the poorest country in this hemisphere.

As my colleague from the Bloc has mentioned, there is a very large Haitian community in Montreal. They live here in Canada. They are citizens.

I have a particular connection because one of the orphanages in Haiti has been extensively funded by the Windsor-Essex County community. I think that is true of a number of communities across the country. As a country and as individuals in smaller communities, we have reached out to Haiti.

Other hon. members have stated that there have now been 34 coups d'état since the country achieved independence two centuries ago. This is the second coup d'état against President Aristide.

I was disturbed by the response to my question from the Minister of Foreign Affairs, and I think he repeated it at another point in his responses. He said that we should just forget about the history, that we do not want to go back and revisit that.

The reality is that the other countries of Caricom throughout the Caribbean and Central and South America are not at all happy about Canada's role. I do not think I am overstating it, but a good number of those countries see Canada, France and the United States as being part of an occupying force. We have significantly damaged our long term relationship with those countries.

I was particularly concerned when I heard the minister again speaking in terms of it being a fragile democracy. He may have been using it as a euphemism or as an excuse, but it sounded too much like the argument put forward by President Bush and his administration, that they do not feel any responsibility for, as they put it, failed elected leaders. They get to determine who is a failed elected leader. If we are going down that road with the Americans, then we are very much endangering our relationship with Caricom.

We have heard a good deal in the media and to some degree from members this evening about elections in Haiti. When we go back and look at the history, there were no complaints about the 2000 election when President Aristide was re-elected overwhelmingly. The methodology that was used was only complained about after the fact, by the U.S. and the OAS, but not before. It was simply used as an excuse.

It was interesting to hear the comments from the member from the Conservative Party who used the term “regime change”. That is very much what occurred. To suggest that President Aristide voluntarily resigned when he had a gun pointed at his head, figuratively speaking of course, is just playing with semantics. For us to say that we could find the wherewithal to move troops in, and I am pointing the finger not only at Canada but at France and the United States, at the drop of a hat at the time when he was gone and could not do anything to help protect the democracy that was there before the rebel attack, we have heard from all members their concern about this. I share in their concern as well.

I mentioned earlier a community in my area that has been very generous in helping an orphanage in Haiti. One of our priests is in Haiti and has refused to leave. He certainly was in danger.

We knew of the violence that was going on. The solution to that violence was not ousting the president. The solution was moving in an international multilateral force that would have supported the government and democracy. What we in fact have said to the whole hemisphere is that if enough violent opposition could be mounted, we would see that the elected government would go and we would help replace it. That is the message out there right now.

I want to make a point in terms of history and that is why I am so concerned that the minister seems to be willing to forget it. Haiti is the poorest country in the hemisphere by far. The United States was controlling a large sum of money which was not paid into Haiti. This money could have gone a great distance in dealing with some of its economic problems.

That sum is $650 million and it has been sitting unused, unavailable to them for over two and a half years now. We did not do anything about getting that money released for them.

The position of the New Democratic Party is that it is unacceptable to have sent in our army and unacceptable that we permitted the removal of Haiti's president, Mr. Aristide, thus ending his presidency. It is unacceptable.

We have a number of requests and suggestions. First, we want to have American forces replaced by a peacekeeping mission under the United Nations, as soon as possible.

We want to see an international force sent as well, also under the United Nations. Its mandate would be to disarm the population and find and destroy the many caches of arms in Haiti.

There must be a viable, long-term solution to Haiti's problems—its political and economic problems—including reparations. This solution must be primarily designed by the Haitian people.

It will be necessary for Canada to support and assist with transparent and honest elections in Haiti.

We ask for a return to full and complete democracy in Haiti, followed immediately by the freeing of $650 million for economic and medical aid. This amount, now being withheld by the United States should be given to the Haitian government.

We also ask for Canadian and international long-term financial aid, and training for a professional police force in Haiti.

Finally, we ask for an inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the forced resignation of Mr. Aristide.

On that final point, again I would urge the minister, as I did in my question to him, that he consider seriously having Canada participate in insisting that this type of an inquiry go on so that we can determine in fact whether President Aristide left voluntarily or was forced out.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Chair, I have tried to figure out and understand what the member has been telling us because I have been part of an international delegation. What we pushed for was to respect the CARICOM plan. The CARICOM plan was to be inclusive in a way where we could have a national union government and where the opposition and President Aristide would go forward.

The problem in the past, and it was a pretty rough discussion, was that President Aristide gave his word but he did not respect it. Nevertheless, we felt that because he was elected we should respect that, but he should have got involved in the CARICOM plan. When we talked to the Asian people, most of them felt that President Aristide should have stepped down.

First, my understanding of what the member is saying is that we should have sent the troops over when he was there. Therefore, we would have been on the president's side, which was against the CARICOM plan in a sense. We did not want to take a stand, but we wanted to bring people back together. Then we would have been able to disarm.

Second, does the member believe that the only way to have proceeded, which we are saying now, was to do exactly what we wanted to do, and that is to respect the CARICOM plan?

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

Mr. Chair, there are two questions there. I have to say to my colleague across the aisle that he is rewriting history a bit. The reality is that ultimately President Aristide did agree to that plan. It was the rebels who refused to. Yes, at that point--

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Opposition.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

No, that is in fact what happened. It was at that point when the international community should have said that it was going in to support the elected government.

I want to take a second issue with the minister when he talks about his assessment of the support of President Aristide. Everything I have heard is that the country is badly divided. However, to suggest that there was overwhelming support for him leaving is not accurate as far as we can see from the facts.

[Jay Hill, Canadian Alliance, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Chair, I would just like to be very clear on where the member stands on the issue of the withdrawal of President Aristide from Haiti. Is he saying that he believes President Aristide's story, as it has come to light since he flew to Africa, that he did not voluntarily withdraw for the good of his country and to try to avoid bloodshed, but that the Americans basically kidnapped him and removed him from his country?

I have not seen any evidence to support that other than the word of President Aristide. Therefore, if the member is saying that and if he has some evidence that would support that, it would be great for the debate and for all members of all parties in the debate this evening to be made aware of that.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

I do not think any of us know, Mr. Chair. I have indicated in my address this evening what the NDP is calling for, and that is there be an international inquiry, an investigation so we can determine whether President Aristide's version is accurate or is the American version accurate. We are calling for that only.

I do not think it is possible for anyone to know at a distance. I was not in the room, neither was the member and neither was anyone on the government side. There is no way of knowing what happened on February 28 and 29 when President Aristide signed that document and then left the country. However, we could find out by way of an international inquiry.

[Jay Hill, Canadian Alliance, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Chair, further to that, since the member seems to be intent on pursuing the idea of an international inquiry, what exactly is he is hoping to accomplish by that and does he believe that President Aristide was involved in some incredibly terrible human rights abuses of his own people while he was in power? If so, why would he be supportive of an inquiry? I do not understand the point of the inquiry unless it is somehow to put President Aristide back into the position of power in Haiti.

Given what I have seen of his human rights abuse record, I do not know why Canada, as a nation, would want to support putting President Aristide back into power. I do not think that is the long term answer to solving the incredible turmoil, unrest and bloodshed in Haiti.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

Mr. Chair it is not me alone who is calling for this. CARICOM has called for it and the government of South Africa has called for it. The point is we as a country signed on to a democratic principle when we signed on in 2000, I think, to the Inter-American Democratic Charter. We signed that. We said that we would respect democracies.

Therefore, will we be able to say that we have a right to go in every time there is humanitarian abuses? I do not know if there have been. I have to say that to my friend. I have not been part of an inquiry into Haiti. I have not been there.

I say to the member that we have as a country a responsibility to honour democracy. There is nothing that I know of that tells me that it was not a proper election that elected him.

I see the Americans now beginning to build. Are we going to say that we have a right to determine what elected officials should be removed and which ones should be allowed to stay? I do not support that.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member is putting on quite a performance, but the reality is very different. The reality is that President Aristide handed in his letter of resignation and said that, to prevent a bloodbath, he was leaving, but he can play politics after the fact.

I ask this of my colleague, who likes to jump the gun. Does this mean that, on December 5, when the president of the university had both his legs broken and when the police let the chimères kill students, he considered that acceptable? Are we to understand then that he supports without reservation everything that President Aristide did? Instead of continually thinking about holding inquiries because we think that the president left, should we not instead think about how to rebuild Haiti, ensure that the rebels and insurgents on all sides are disarmed and that, first and foremost, the people of Haiti are respected and protected?

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—St. Clair, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have two answers. First, it is up to the people of Haiti to make that decision. Second, if we were that concerned about security in that country, why did we reduce the amount of money we were giving it? Why did we pull out the police forces we had there? We were trying to help establish a solid police force.

We are not without blame in this regard. However, who gets to make those decisions? It should not be a foreign country. It should be the people of Haiti.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I was not able to hear everything my colleague said. However, I wanted to say that it is unacceptable if the president was kidnapped and deported. However, based on what I know, and the UN resolution, which I read, this is not the case.

Consequently, if he asks for an inquiry and there is one, so much the better. Holding an inquiry in Haiti is one thing. However, we cannot concentrate on that right now. Haitians could decide to uncover the real story. However, currently, the UN unanimously recognized the new president. There is a new president and a new prime minister. Peace needs to be established and democratic institutions—