House of Commons Hansard #27 of the 37th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was tariffs.
Stephen Harper Canadian AllianceLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, today they are blocking getting to the bottom of it and the Prime Minister should be responsible, get in there and tell them to stop doing that.
Mr. Speaker, a Liberal member of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts has said that we will never know who is at the bottom of this scandal.
By rejecting the motion in committee today, is this not precisely what Liberal members are achieving?
Paul Martin LiberalPrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, I did not attend the committee meeting this morning, but I can assure the Leader of the Opposition that Liberal members who sit on the committee will assume their responsibilities and that they will do so the way they should, which is by being open and transparent.
Peter MacKay Progressive Conservative Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS
Mr. Speaker, this Liberal cover-up continues. If the Prime Minister really wanted to get to the bottom of this, he would probably recognize that it is going to lead to the top.
Last week I moved a motion in committee to simply have the briefing notes of Alfonso Gagliano tabled at the committee so we could test the veracity of his statements there.
Is this the way to openness and transparency or is this a way to continue a cover-up before an election? When are we going to get those briefing notes?
Paul Martin LiberalPrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, the hon. member opposite should know that we have no control over the committees. However, if he wants to get some information from Mr. Gagliano, all he has to do is to ask him to appear before the committee.
Peter MacKay Progressive Conservative Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS
Mr. Speaker, these committees are supposed to be a fulsome examination of facts. The Prime Minister has to recognize that his “mad as hell” tour is over. It has been a sham. It has been exposed.
The Prime Minister's promises of transparency and accountability are pretty thin gruel when we look at what happened in the committee today. Liberal members voted down an attempt to get to the truth. Why did the Prime Minister instruct Liberal members of the committee to cover up the truth about what Mr. Gagliano was doing at Public Works?
Paul Martin LiberalPrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, I gave no such instructions to any members of the committee, but if the hon. member opposite thinks that members of the committee can be instructed, then why does the Leader of the Opposition not ask the chairman of the committee to stop stalling? Why does he not ask him to call all the members who want to testify in front of the committee right now?
Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Mr. Speaker, while the Prime Minister was spouting fine rhetoric about transparency, the Liberal MPs on the Standing Committee on Public Accounts have just rejected our motion asking that all documents related to the Canadian unity fund, the Prime Minister's secret fund that was used to finance the sponsorship scandal, be made public.
Can the Prime Minister tell us why he had the Bloc Quebecois motion rejected? Why hide the truth about this fund that was used to finance the sponsorship scandal?
Mauril Bélanger LiberalDeputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, the committee is master of its own destiny. Nevertheless, when someone goes on a fishing expedition and asks for tonnes of information about all departments since 1997, it is impossible to provide everything. If the committee decides to provide information about certain ministers, as requested, it will receive these documents in due course.
Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Mr. Speaker, the democratic deficit is the Prime Minister who refuses to answer our questions. That is exactly what is going on here.
His Minister of Public Works and Government Services told us, “Ask the Standing Committee on Public Accounts and you will get all the documents related to the Canadian unity fund”. The Prime Minister has confirmed the existence of this fund.
Why does he now refuse to make these documents public? What does he have to hide? Why make some documents public but not others? What is behind all this? Will the Prime Minister please give us an answer?
Mauril Bélanger LiberalDeputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, I have been informed that a number of motions were put forward in committee this morning and that at least five of them, requesting a great deal of information, were approved by the committee. This information will be provided to the committee by the government as soon as it has been put together and is available.
Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC
Mr. Speaker, the committee can pass all the motions it wants, the only one that matters is the one calling for the production of documents on the Prime Minister's secret fund, which was used to finance the whole sponsorship scandal. We want these documents to be made public for the benefit of parliamentarians.
Why did the government defeat this motion? It goes to the heart of the problem: the funding of the sponsorship program.
Pierre Pettigrew LiberalMinister of Health
Mr. Speaker, at the time, the Prime Minister did have a reserve fund, which he used to support projects throughout Canada when he felt they promoted national unity.
However, the current Prime Minister has asked the Clerk of the Privy Council to conduct a detailed review of this reserve fund. I can tell the House that no new project has been initiated by this government and this Prime Minister with this fund.
Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC
Mr. Speaker, the current Prime Minister was finance minister when the Prime Minister's secret fund, which was used to finance the sponsorship scandal, was set up.
Why is the government refusing to make these documents public when they are essential to the committee's work? We want to know how the money put into the fund by the then finance minister was used, particularly with regard to the sponsorships. Why is the truth being hidden?
Pierre Pettigrew LiberalMinister of Health
Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has asked the Clerk of the Privy Council to carry out a detailed review of this reserve fund, and this will be done. No new project has been initiated by this government and this Prime Minister since December 12.
What we want to do with regard to national unity is to adopt a new approach to avoid confrontation and bring in an era of cooperation. I know that some people would rather quarrel because that is their life's work. Confrontation and quarrels are what they do best, and that are not what this government wants to do.
Bill Blaikie NDP Winnipeg—Transcona, MB
Mr. Speaker, my question is for the right hon. Prime Minister.
The Prime Minister himself fired Mr. Gagliano and surely the Prime Minister had reasons for firing Mr. Gagliano. Mr. Gagliano seems to think that there was no good reason for firing him.
I wonder if the Prime Minister could tell us why the Liberals on the committee are making it impossible for committee members to verify why it was that the Prime Minister fired Mr. Gagliano the way he did.
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Mr. Speaker, the committee adopted a motion this morning and I will read it, “That the committee request that a copy of the daily agendas of three people, including Gagliano, be provided between November 1993 and December 2003 to the committee”. This will be provided.
Bill Blaikie NDP Winnipeg—Transcona, MB
It appears, Mr. Speaker, that not even the Prime Minister wants to defend his decision to fire Mr. Gagliano any more.
I have another question for the Prime Minister. It has to do with the ruling that came down yesterday, the WTO ruling on the softwood lumber case which ruled in Canada's favour.
Will the Prime Minister now pick up the phone and tell George Bush to call off the dogs? How many times does Canada have to win this before the Canadian government acts, or does something for the communities involved if it persists in waiting?
Jim Peterson LiberalMinister of International Trade
Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question on a very important issue.
The softwood lumber industry affects almost 300,000 jobs in this country. This is why I have made it my first priority to follow our two track policy. This means that we are litigating before the WTO and NAFTA. We are continuing to seek a prevailing view to see if a counter-offer can be made. This continues to be our first priority.
James Moore Canadian Alliance Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Mr. Speaker, the motion that was defeated this morning was not the one that was just mentioned by the minister. The motion was asking that “all documents pertaining to those briefings, including briefing books, notes, memos and agenda items, daytimers, et cetera be tabled and made available to the committee for examination in these deliberations”. That motion was defeated unanimously by Liberals in committee.
I want to know from the Prime Minister either one of two things is true: either the committee members are involved in a cover-up, or they are completely disobeying the Prime Minister's supposed request to get to the bottom of this scandal. Why is he failing to instruct his own members to get to the bottom of this scandal? Why is he doing it?
Mauril Bélanger LiberalDeputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, the government has committed to provide all pertinent information to the committee. It has had a request to provide cabinet documents, which have been provided. It has had a request today to provide information relating to a previous minister and to public servants. That material will be provided.
The relevant and pertinent information requested by members of the committee will be provided by the government as it has been in the past.
James Moore Canadian Alliance Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Mr. Speaker, the government's words are saying that, but its actions are speaking a lot louder than its words.
I have a straightforward and simple question. We are going to re-table this motion at the next committee meeting. I want to know from the Prime Minister, will he instruct his members to pass this motion, get to the bottom of this scandal and have full disclosure, yes or no?
Mauril Bélanger LiberalDeputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons
Mr. Speaker, the committee is master of its destiny. If it requests information pertinent to getting to the bottom of this matter, that information will be provided as it has been provided in the past.
For the first time in memory, cabinet documents have been presented at committee at the committee's request. That indicates the wish of the government to provide all pertinent information.
James Rajotte Canadian Alliance Edmonton Southwest, AB
Mr. Speaker, this is unbelievable. During one question period, we witnessed a Deputy Prime Minister state 18 times that the government had nothing to hide, but the government is hiding things.
Why are Liberal members hiding information from the public by voting against this motion at committee?
Jacques Saada LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister responsible for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely—