Debates of March 25th, 2004

Sponsorship Program

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the problem is that this was a normal reserve that was used for abnormal things. We know that the Prime Minister's secret fund resulted in the sponsorship scandal after 1996. However, we believe that, between 1992 and 1996, this fund generously provided by the Minister of Finance at the time may have been at the heart of another scandal, the Option Canada scandal.

Can the Prime Minister confirm that the $4.8 million that disappeared from Option Canada, which even the auditor at the time could not trace, indeed came from this secret fund?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the Terry Fox Centre and the Katimavik program are examples of perfectly normal programs that were approved by the Treasury Board, like any other program at the time.

One thing is certain. When the Government of Canada promotes national unity, it is mandated by the public to do so, but when the Bloc and the PQ promote sovereignty, they hide this fact during the election campaign and get elected despite their blueprint for sovereignty. And their Conseil de la souveraineté was completely against—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Roberval.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we know that, when it comes to promoting national unity, anything goes on the other side. The former prime minister said it, “The end justifies the means”. It does not matter that millions of taxpayer dollars were wasted, it does not matter that $250 million of our taxes went to bonuses for their cronies.

I have a question for the Minister of Health. Can he stand up and tell the people of Quebec and the people of Canada that the end justifies the means also for him when it comes to Canada?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know how much these people contribute to the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste. The Bloc recently paid for an ad in which Mr. Falardeau tried to tarnish the reputation of individuals such as Claude Ryan.

The Bloc paid for and distributed a rag in which Falardeau shamefully insulted certain individuals. Those people are in no position to preach to anyone. Our new unity approach is going to work despite the bickering.

Foreign Affairs

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. I might add that we are sending his answer to Bono, so I hope he thinks about his reply.

The bill that is supposed to provide affordable drugs to Africa is fatally flawed. It contains the first right of refusal for big drug companies, something that the NGOs and the experts know fatally flaws and undermines the bill. The Prime Minister has been in office for three months, yet this bill is identical to the bad one that was introduced by Jean Chrétien.

If helping Africa is a priority, why has the Prime Minister done nothing to fix this bill and ensure that the people who are suffering get the drugs that they need?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Industry and Minister responsible for the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, this legislation, which is very important for getting pharmaceuticals to the least developed countries, is currently under consideration by the parliamentary committee.

Members from all parties have had an opportunity to listen to various stakeholders in the pharmaceutical industry as well as our NGOs. We count on everyone's cooperation in order to improve this bill.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the question was, what has the government done to fix this bill? The government seems to be happy with a flawed bill.

However, it goes beyond that. As Bono also pointed out, Canada's commitment to the global fund is one-third below our obligation. The global fund was completely missed in the throne speech. It was not mentioned in the budget.

Again, why was the global fund ignored? Are these commitments simply Liberal window dressing that mean nothing for the people that they are intended to help? Where is the Liberal commitment? Why does it not come through?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the government has made a very serious commitment to the poorest countries of the world and we will honour that commitment.

Sponsorship Program

[Vic Toews, Canadian Alliance, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, today the public accounts committee heard that the current President of the Privy Council met with Chuck Guité, the official in charge of the sponsorship program.

When did the President of the Privy Council disclose to the Prime Minister his direct involvement in the sponsorship program?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the fact is that the statement just made by the hon. member is false.

[Vic Toews, Canadian Alliance, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, a career public servant of 29 years, Huguette Tremblay, with everything to lose and nothing to gain, put the current President of the Privy Council at the scene of the crime.

Why will the Prime Minister not release the Gagliano papers so that Canadians can determine what the involvement of the President of the Privy Council was in respect of the sponsorship pie?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's reference to the public servant who gave testimony this morning refers to someone who the Prime Minister has encouraged to come before these processes and provide evidence.

The hon. member for Provencher, at the public accounts committee this morning, said himself, with respect to other testimony, that unless the testimony was corroborated in a material respect, he did not intend to give these two allegations any weight. He said this morning that we need to focus on what is relevant.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last week Alfonso Gagliano testified that he only met with Chuck Guité two or three times a year. Today, Madam Tremblay said it was a weekly affair.

The President of the Privy Council claimed he knew nothing and had nothing to do with the sponsorship program. However, again Madam Tremblay testified that he was over at that office meeting and talking with Chuck Guité.

It is clear that the President of the Privy Council was involved in political interference. Did he advise the Prime Minister of that?

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Mr. Speaker, there are limits to telling lies. I have never met with, never spoken to and never seen Chuck Guité in my life. These are lies. This is a breach of my privilege.

That is not accurate.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is the Alfonso Gagliano defence all over again. When caught, deny. We are starting to get to the bottom of this.

I would like to know, why is it the Prime Minister ordered his Liberal members of the public accounts committee to refuse public access to the diaries and the records of the former minister of public works, who has now been revealed to have misled the public accounts committee in testimony today? Why?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, we have been told many times that committees are masters of their own destiny.

A committee makes a request for information. Whatever is pertinent to chapters 3, 4 and 5 of the Auditor General's report will be reviewed and provided.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has always denied any involvement in the sponsorship scandal by claiming he was not close to Jean Chrétien's team. However, when $4.8 million disappeared without a trace from Option Canada in 1995, several people very close to him were directly involved. Claude Dauphin was president of Option Canada. Francis Fox sat on the Canadian Unity Council, as did Rémi Bujold, who is closely connected to the Prime Minister.

How can the Prime Minister claim that he was kept on the sidelines and in the dark when his now close advisers held key positions at the time?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, when this country's unity is under fire, the government always has the responsibility to ensure that unity is maintained. When we go to the polls, we say, “Elect us, we will protect the unity of Canada”. They go to the polls saying, “Vote for us, we will not mention sovereignty for a while; vote for a good government”. They are hypocrites. That is what they are. On this side, we have a clear mandate to defend Canada.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if anyone is hypocritical here, it is him, the king of all hypocrites.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker]

Order, please. As members know, the use of the word “hypocrite” to describe a member is unacceptable. We may have problems with people as a group, but the members themselves are never hypocrites. We must refrain from using such language in the House.

The hon. member for Longueuil is well aware that this is not acceptable. She may now proceed with her question.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the start of this secret fund which fed the sponsorship scandal and the scandal at Option Canada, people very close to the Prime Minister played very important roles. The Prime Minister's advisers, ministers, friends and colleagues were all involved at one level or another in this affair.

How can the Minister of Health and the Prime Minister try to convince us that the latter was outside all this and was not informed, when his close advisers were part of the gang gravitating around the secret fund from the start?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we never hid the fact that we were promoting Canadian unity. It is completely normal that the Prime Minister's entourage and I have supported Canadian unity for the past 30 years.

Our strategies are always open and transparent. We do not hide like the PQ wing in this House, the friends of Falardeau who spread obscene rumours about people like Claude Ryan, which the member for Trois-Rivières is repeating in this House. Such behaviour is scandalous.

The Environment

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday on Télé-Québec the former heritage minister stated that the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister joined forces to exert pressure against Canada's signing the Berlin mandate on the environment, because they did not want Canada involved in this.

Will the Prime Minister acknowledge that, after such a revelation, his credibility in relation to the environment is seriously in question, and that this merely confirms that he sides with the oil and gas industry?