House of Commons Hansard #131 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was protection.

Topics

Public Servants Disclosure Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I tend to agree with the member on his last point. Having a bill like Bill C-11 is much like parking a police car at the side of the roadway even though there is nobody in it. There tends to be an optic that causes people some pause to reflect.

The significant importance of this bill is that it is in the best interests to protect whistleblowers who, with the proper moral compass and the commitment to their oath of office, are prepared to come forward. The member well knows that many of the witnesses who came before us had been whistleblowers without the process and protections involved prior to the Radwanski episode in which there were some emulated protections and with which there were no apparent problems. We have heard many stories.

I thank the member for raising the importance of the bill in regard to providing protection to whistleblowers and in regard to it maybe being the starting point for a greater level of support and confidence within our public service so that when there are wrongdoings, as defined in the bill, appropriate steps will be taken to bring resolution to them to the fullest extent.

Public Servants Disclosure Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Conservative

Ken Epp Conservative Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB

Mr. Speaker, leadership comes from the top and that is always true. The standards are set by the people at the top. I cannot expect my employees to go beyond the standard that I am willing to set.

With respect to Mr. Radwanski, one of the things that distressed me immensely was the fact that the day before he was appointed he had a considerable debt to pay to Revenue Canada and it was essentially written off. This debt was forgiven the day before he took on a job that gave him a very good salary that would have allowed him to repay that debt to Revenue Canada. That is leadership at the top. There was a deal made by the Prime Minister's Office. There he is with that kind of moral compass going into the job. No wonder there was frustration in his department when people noticed that his lack of moral fortitude showed up in the way he was handling affairs.

The member is absolutely right. The bill would give greater assurance and protection to those who boldly stand up and say that we have to do what is right, that we must protect the taxpayers' dollars and that we must do it truthfully and honestly. I agree with that but it is not the final answer. The final answer is that we need to have leadership at the top.

Very frankly, I believe it is time for the Canadian people to say that they are going to trust the party that is now the official opposition to go on that side. Among other things, I would like our Leader of the Opposition to be the prime minister when the Gomery report comes in because that report goes to the prime minister. In that way we would be able to give Canadians the whole truth of the matter.

Public Servants Disclosure Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

The Speaker

Is the House ready for the question?

Public Servants Disclosure Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Public Servants Disclosure Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

The Speaker

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Public Servants Disclosure Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Public Servants Disclosure Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

The Speaker

I declare the motion carried.

(Motion agreed to, bill read the third time and passed)

The House resumed from September 30 consideration of the motion that Bill C-25, An Act governing the operation of remote sensing space systems, be read the third time and passed.

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:20 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Exploits, NL

Mr. Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to explain to hon. colleagues how many of the concerns expressed regarding Bill C-25 have been met with the amended bill that we asked the House to pass.

I will concentrate on five major concerns that have been raised: provincial access to sensed data; the archiving of data; the adequacy of protections afforded for privacy; protections in the bill regarding foreign ownership of licensed operators in Canada;, and, similarities with the provisions of Canada's export control laws on the export of military and dual use goods and technology.

In doing so, I will also discuss the impact of certain amendments added to the bill during proceedings before the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade. With my explanation added to the thorough discourse we experienced through the committee's review of this bill, I hope to make clear to all members of the House why this sound bill, so valuable to both the national security and economic prosperity of our country, should be passed.

Let me begin with the protection of the interests of provinces. When one drafts a bill, one must select an overarching legal mandate to the guiding light for its development. Bill C-25 was based on the defence and international relations powers of the Canadian Constitution. The bill's emphasis on national security, the defence of Canada, the protection of Canadian Forces, the conduct of international relations and the observance of Canada's international obligations thus reflect a federal mandate. Outer space is also a domain of exclusive federal jurisdiction. On that there is no disagreement. Thus, the language of Bill C-25 fully accords with exclusive federal powers.

During committee review of the bill, some hon. members sought changes to incorporate the protection of unspecified provincial interests in a bill that had been drafted reflecting the exclusive responsibilities of the federal government. One of these amendments serves as a point of additional clarification. The addition of section—

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

The Speaker

Is the hon. member for New Brunswick Southwest rising on a point of order?

Points of OrderGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Thompson Conservative St. Croix—Belleisle, NB

Mr. Speaker, I know we have to bring these issues to you immediately following question period and I do this reluctantly or hesitantly. I wanted approval from the member to whom it happened.

During question period I heard very distinctly a very sexist remark coming from the member for Scarborough—Agincourt when one of our younger, newer members to this House was up speaking. She is a newer member to the House and she did not completely understand the rules, but she clearly heard it herself and it basically put her off stride in question period. It was a very sexist remark and I would expect you to review the blues and demand an apology from the member for Scarborough—Agincourt who has been identified by me and another member as the member making that remark. It was wrong and he should apologize to the member and to the House.

Points of OrderGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

The Speaker

I am afraid I did not hear any such remark. As I indicated during question period, there was quite a lot of noise, but I am sure we will hear from the hon. member for Scarborough—Agincourt. I am sure he will note that a point of order has been raised and we will see what happens. Certainly we will check the blues and if something shows up, the necessary steps I am sure will be taken.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-25, An Act governing the operation of remote sensing space systems, be read the third time and passed.

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Exploits, NL

Mr. Speaker, during committee review of the bill some hon. members sought changes to incorporate the protection of unspecified provincial interest in the bill. One of these amendments serves as a point of additional clarification. I speak of the addition of clause 4(3)(c) which adds that “the interests of the provinces are protected”, when the responsible minister must weigh whether to grant an exemption from the act or any person, remote sensing space systems or data. Even without the phrase we may rest assured that provincial interests would have been given full consideration, but if a more explicit expression is needed to provide reassurance then so be it.

As an hon. colleague elaborated on September 30, the responsible minister is granted the power of exemption under the act for several reasons, one being to deal with competing jurisdictions laying claim to the same remote sensing space system. A private remote sensing space system controlled by Canadian persons or operated from within Canada would either need a licence granted under section 8 or an exemption order issued. Given that Canadians could operate from a foreign jurisdiction, which may want to licence the system under its own laws, Canada needs this power to release Canadians from obligations under the proposed act where appropriate.

It was successfully argued during the review of Bill C-25 by the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade that the responsible minister would naturally factor into a licensing decision the issue of whether a clarification of section 8(4)(c) had to be specified within the licence to ensure that the provinces had access to data sensed by a Canadian licensed satellite.

The government accepted an amendment for section 4 in this regard. The amendment clarifies that the minister would ensure that the provinces had secure access to data gathered over their territory, pursuant to Canada being a sensed state as understood in the UN Principles concerning the Remote Sensing of the Earth from Outer Space. This would apply both to a satellite operated and licensed from Canada and to satellites controlled from other countries by Canadian operators.

In the latter case, a foreign jurisdiction seeking to license a satellite controlled by Canadians in that jurisdiction would have to honour the relevant UN Principles before the minister responsible would agree to release the Canadian operators of their obligations under the act. In this way the provinces of Canada can be fully assured of access for data sensed over their own territory.

On the issue of data archiving, I want to flag an amendment to section 20 defining the regulation-making authority on this issue. Section 20(1)(g.1) now provides for regulations “respecting the archiving of raw data, including the public access to the archived data”. This amendment was accepted as a point of clarification further to existing section 8(4)(c), codifying Canada's ability to fulfill its commitments under United Nations Principles concerning the Remote Sensing of the Earth from Outer Space, mentioned earlier in my remarks.

Similarly, the system disposal plan required under section 9 would delineate how the data would collected by the licensed system will eventually be disposed after a set shelf life. These two provisions of the act result in an implicit data archiving requirement on the licensee. The government further envisions regulations placing notification requirements on the licensee to notify the minister prior to disposing of any raw data. It also envisions requirements specifying an opportunity for the minister to acquire such data for archive and public access within a government operated data archive. The amendment accepted by the government helps to reinforce this sound practice.

I turn now to the issue of privacy protection and the rationale for the lack of additional elements on the issue in the bill. First, it must be understood that the bill does not stand alone in isolation from other laws in Canada enacted to protect the privacy interests of Canadians. Bill C-25 exists fully within and is governed by the existing strong framework of privacy laws in Canada. Foremost among these is Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Specifically section 8 of charter guarantees that “Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure”. In addition to the charter, existing legislation such as the Privacy Act and the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act provide excellent privacy protections from all sorts of technologies, including those involved in remote sensing satellites.

It must also be understood that major technical and cost impediments will limit just how sensitive remove sensing satellites licensed under Bill C-25 will be. No one will be reading newspapers over our shoulder from space. Indeed individuals do not even show up in images taken by the sort of remote sensing satellites expected to be licensed under this bill.

Should future satellite technology evolve sufficiently that performance capabilities generate privacy concerns regarding law enforcement or other uses, new practices and procedures would be developed as an outgrowth of existing legal jurisprudence. In fact, jurisprudence already is being formed in Canada with regard to the use of airborne remote sensing systems by law enforcement agencies, including requirements for prior judicial authorizations for uses in which a reasonable expectation of privacy would exist.

As a consequence, there is no need for additional privacy protections to be considered specifically for remote sensing satellites beyond those already put into practice under Canada's existing laws to limit the more intrusive airborne or terrestrial sensing systems.

Some hon. members also questioned the protection afforded under Bill C-25 against foreign acquisition of Canadian licensed remote sensing satellites. The approach adopted in Bill C-25 in this regard draws no distinction between domestic and foreign investment in Canadian remote sensing space systems. All potential licensees, from whatever country, must meet security standards established to protect Canada's national security against injury, whether from a Canadian or a non-Canadian investor.

Under the proposed bill, the licensing power of clause 8 and the proposed disposal plan required under clause 9 enable the minister to specify conditions under which the licensee would have to notify the minister when it experienced a change in operational control. This notification would enable the minister to ensure that the security aspects of the system and the disposal plan or other operational plans could be implemented to protect Canada's national security with regard to the proposed investment.

The bill also includes clause 16 which would prohibit a licensee or former licensee from transferring the control of a remote sensing space system without the approval of the minister. This adds to the protection afforded under clause 8(9) in which a licence is not transferrable without the minister's consent.

I now wish to raise the issue of ensuring that conditions in an operating licence under the act will permit protection for the export of sensitive items, comparable to those found in Canada's Export and Import Permits Act. In other speeches by my colleagues, it was explained why the bill was better than amending that act. I will not repeat what has already been said. Instead I will simply emphasize that Bill C-25 does for the control of data what the Export and Import Permits Act does for the export of military and dual use goods and technology.

Under present policy guidelines set out by cabinet in 1986, Canada closely controls the export of military goods and technology to: first, countries which pose a threat to Canada and its allies; second, countries involved in or under imminent threat of hostilities; third, countries under United Nations Security Council sanctions; and, fourth, countries whose governments have a persistent record of serious violations of the human rights of their citizens, unless it can be demonstrated there is no reasonable risk that the goods might be used against the civilian population.

These fundamental policy statements are implemented as guidelines but are not found as explicit language in any legislation. Existing powers afforded under EIPA are adequate to enable them to be implemented. The powers afforded under Bill C-25 can and will be used to do the same for remote sensing satellite capabilities. Let me again show members how.

In Bill C-25, clauses 8(6) and 8(7) would allow the minister to specify mandatory distribution rules for all types of remote sensing imagery, both data and products. High resolution or rapidly accessible products are the ones most likely to arouse security concerns. Products involving coarser resolution and slower delivery times are likely to be viewed as benign. In between these limits will fall dual use products.

The powers afforded under this act would allow the responsible minister to specify customer access profiles that would define what quality of data or product could be released to what class of customer and how quickly. These profiles would reflect the same sort of underlying policy goals elaborated by the government for the export of military of dual use goods under the Export and Import Permits Act. Indeed, the ability of the minister responsible to change these rules on his own motion foresaw the policy needs I elaborated before, since the internal or external security situation of a given country can change rapidly and rapid response to such changes is equally necessary.

Finally, I wish to speak to a final amendment that was accepted during the review of the bill by the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade.

The last amendment added the requirement for the minister to conduct an independent review of Bill C-25 five years from entering into force and every five years thereafter. The review would keep the bill forward looking in terms of Canada's conduct of international relations and in terms of the evolution of remote sensing technology. Such reviews could also provide Parliament an account of the administration of the act and could document, mindful of national security limitations, the circumstances surrounding the use of any of the extraordinary powers granted under the act.

On that basis, I continue to urge hon. members to pass the bill at third reading so the useful work that it mandates can begin.

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Pickering—Scarborough East Ontario

Liberal

Dan McTeague LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to hear the hon. member's comments with respect to the bill. It is a very important bill for the development of new technologies, understanding the significance that RADARSAT-1 will eventually come to its technical use over the next few years.

That member in particular, notwithstanding the goatee, is very well known to most people who wake up in the morning and want to know how their drive will be. With respect to hurricane Rita, I was very surprised recently when I got more calls from my constituents after the 11 o'clock news on the weather channel than I did from other channels.

The hon. member has a significant amount of background and interest in weather and meteorology. He certainly understands the significance of the dynamic of electronic imagery from a satellite, and this is a new satellite. Could the hon. member comment a little on his knowledge and how important it is for Canadians to get it right?

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Exploits, NL

Mr. Speaker, minus the facial hair, I did have a past existence as somewhat of an expert on the matter of weather. I still do as weather is still an issue in my riding.

I had the honour of meeting RADARSAT during the genesis of it. I was astounded by the technology of it for many reasons. It provided us with far better images and clearer technology that allowed us to be in the weather game in a much better way. It allowed for early warning systems to advance our cause.

As weathermen will tell us, the greatest tool for them is not necessarily a finger in the air or a weather vane or a weather balloon. The greatest tool is a satellite. It is able to do more than just tell us the weather. It also can give us a gauge of our climate, which is of grave concern to not just all Canadians but everyone around the world.

RADARSAT-2 provides us with a far clearer image than what we had before and it allows us to assess situations as they become more imminent, such as the hurricane of which my hon. colleague spoke. With this new technology, the benefits of it far outweigh anything that someone may bring up for nefarious reasons. This is one for the environment. This is one to gauge our climate. It affects our children and everybody in the world.

This bill would help us get closer to the goal of being a contributor internationally. As Canadians, we have contributed scientifically and technologically. I urge the rest of my colleagues in the House to pass Bill C-25 bill to advance the cause not just for Canada but internationally as well.

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to ask my colleague a question.

One of the issues we have raised is the privatization of the services. As we know, the American PATRIOT Act, section 215, has had interventions on Canadian privacy. A company that provides information or outsourcing to the United States has Canadian information tagged to it is vulnerable to the CIA, the FBI and other government agencies in the United States without having to acknowledge that intervention in Canada.

Has the hon. member had assurances that there is absolutely no way Canadian privacy can be affected by the PATRIOT Act and that the operations of the RADARSAT-2 and all outsourcing would done in the context of Canada alone? Once again, we have seen interventions on this side, for example, when Statistics Canada outsourced our data collection to Lougheed Martin. We became susceptible to the PATRIOT Act and it cost us millions of dollars to correct the situation. Also, we do not know the types of identity theft happening without the knowledge of Canadians

Has there been some specific recommendations related to the PATRIOT Act and what they are?

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Exploits, NL

Mr. Speaker, the Privacy Commissioner certainly has given his blessing to this one.

Just to add more information, the government met with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner prior to tabling this legislation and it had no recommendations for provisions dealing with privacy rights. Technology by itself is neutral in terms of privacy. However, the technology used may raise privacy concerns, that we understand. It is in this use that privacy safeguards must be applied, and these safeguards already exist in our own privacy laws.

In this case, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Privacy Act and the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act continue to apply even when a licence is issued.

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Bloc

Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask a question of the Liberal member who is defending this bill, as the parliamentary secretary did last Friday.

I would like him to explain something for me. The purpose of this bill is partly to ensure the security of remote sensing images. So how can his party be opposed to the idea I raised that there should be some positive measures to restrict the access to remote sensing data by countries that are a threat to peace, that are at war, or that have dubious reputations in regard to terrorist connections?

I proposed an amendment which recommended that the government draw up directives similar to those that currently control Canada's military exports. This amendment was shot down. The Liberals, followed by the Conservatives, voted against it.

It seems to me that there is a contradiction between rejecting this amendment and the purpose of this bill, which is intended among other things to ensure the security of remote sensing images.

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Exploits, NL

Mr. Speaker, this is certainly of grave concern to us all.

Let me just address one more time what I outlined earlier, and I will repeat this for the benefit of the hon. member. Under present policy guidelines which were set out in cabinet in 1986, Canada closely controls the export of military goods and technology. Once again, let me just run down the four that we have here.

First, countries which pose a threat to Canada and its allies included. Second, countries involved in or under imminent threat of hostilities. Third, countries under United Nations Security Council sanctions; or fourth, countries whose governments have a persistent record of serious violations of the human rights of their citizens, unless it can be demonstrated that there is no reasonable risk that the goods might be used against the civilian population.

I agree that these concerns have been addressed within this legislation.

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Pickering—Scarborough East Ontario

Liberal

Dan McTeague LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the hon. member who was not on our committee but has quickly established his credibility by his work in the past. He answered these questions very forcefully, and I am rather amazed at the way he has been able to fend off some of the comments made by the opposition.

Despite the many amendments between the NDP and the Bloc, many of them were actually concurrent. In fact, they complemented each other. The committee took its time to choose ones that were redundant and made certain amendments.

The hon. member spoke earlier about his experience in the industry. I wonder if he sees in the days to come an application of this particular technology and its potential for his constituents, his government and the region of Newfoundland-and-Labrador, much of which is yet evolving and very much in a pristeen state. I wonder if he sees a role for RADARSAT in the future and its ability to help the provincial government and the people of his province.

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Exploits, NL

Mr. Speaker, indeed, there is a role. RADARSAT had proven itself in its original genesis, as I mentioned before, in many respects when it comes to image sensing. Imagine sensing can be used in many ways covering many industries, of course, such as sea temperature change and weather patterns.

I will give a specific example. Let us talk about the hurricane that my hon. colleague spoke of. A hurricane needs for its energy, of course, is very warm water. The sea temperatures are rising in parts of eastern Nova Scotia, as well as eastern Newfoundland, which explains the major hurricane suffered by Halifax many years ago. It was misdiagnosed perhaps, if I could borrow that phrase. One of the reasons was that the sea temperature was higher than anticipated and the hurricane maintained its strength as it slammed into the coast.

What this image sensing technology does is allow us to be far keener of the climatic situations that we have, such as the east coast of Nova Scotia or the east coast of Newfoundland. It also affects populations of fish, which is a major issue each and every day on the northeast coast of Newfoundland, and it will continue to be so. One of the ramifications of this is that recently there have been declining populations in many fish species. Does it have something to do with the rising temperature in the water? Some scientists would say yes, some would say no. Nonetheless, the debate is there.

Thanks to this image sensing technology, we now have a clearer picture of this debate. We can put this issue to rest and as a result take action. Is it overfishing or is it the temperature of the oceans? That debate will continue and opinions will be expressed, but certainly we will get a far clearer picture with this type of technology than we ever did. Again, I would urge all colleagues to support this bill and put us into the next decade.

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Stockwell Day Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC

Mr. Speaker, this has gone through some amendment process and some of the amendments have satisfied the concerns of the opposition. I was somewhat surprised to hear the sentiment expressed by the parliamentary secretary in relation to the member for Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor who was doing an adequate job of responding to the questions. He suggested that he had done a good job fending off the attacks of the opposition on this issue.

I have heard colleagues from other parties rise and address certain issues and amendments to make the bill even better. It is unfortunate that it was seen as fending off an attack, when in fact, on issues such as this we are always offering suggestions on how to improve what has been begun.

In case people have forgotten why this whole bill was required, it began as an agreement back in June 2000 between Canada and the United States related to the operation of remote satellite systems. This has been a work in progress. Some of the progress has been good for something that is necessary to have in place in terms of legislation.

We did raise the issue of provincial interest. It is very important, as we have been discussing this lately in the House, that anything to do with legislation affecting provinces, certainly international treaties affecting provinces, must have a bona fide and conscientious pursuit by the federal government of provincial interests in all cases such as this. If the provinces are affected, that is an area of paramount concern to us and one that would continue.

In reflecting on third reading, I will also have questions in my remarks recognizing that we are reflecting on the principle of the bill. I am not going to parse it into individual phrases and clauses, other than to refer to a phrase or a clause. That would be a reflection on the broader principle and I still have some questions here.

We raise a question about retroactivity for systems that are either already in place or about to be developed. Would the member from Bonavista please reflect on retroactivity? As he knows, it is a general principle in law that if a business or something is being developed and legislation comes out, we want to ensure there is no retroactive effect that is going to bring costs on the developer of those systems.

Would the member from Bonavista also reflect on something we have raised, continuing in this process, and that is the cost of the regulatory process itself? We have been informed that to put the system in place, and recognizing the high degree of sophistication here, there are going to be costs involved. There was a figure at one point that this would be somewhere in the area of just over $1 million or $1.3 million.

Obviously, in this House we accept what a member says at face value until we have evidence to the contrary. We do have other regulatory regimes that have been established, and I am talking for instance about the gun registry where we were told in this House that at first the registry would be a revenue generating system for the government. Then, when it appeared that was not going to be the case, we were told it was going to be revenue neutral. Of course, the gun registry is far from revenue neutral. Then, we were told it was going to be about a million dollars a year to administer. Now, of course, costs are up around $2 billion.

What can the member from Bonavista tell us to assure us that there is going to be some kind of constraint on the cost, so that when we look at this through the next budgetary cycle we are going to see that in fact costs were fairly much in the range of what had been discussed?

Regulatory systems are necessary at times for the government to put in place. It should always be done with great fear and trepidation because government easily gets out of control in its desire to over regulate. This puts huge impositions in terms of costs on the private sector. The CRTC is another case where Canada in fact has been shown in a number of situations to have fallen behind technological development because of an oppressive regulatory regime.

Would the member comment and give us some assurance, and a little peace of mind that the regulatory aspect of this is not going to be a runaway and so heavy on the cost side that it will actually be a deterrent to systems like this being developed in Canada?

A question we had related to the powers of a minister and the fact that a minister can suspend or cancel a licence. We recognize the necessity to have that. There is a provision, which I appreciate seeing, that if there is to be a suspension or cancellation of a licence, there has to be an appropriate warning and the ability of the company or the individual to appeal. I am recognizing that as a good thing, the appeal process and the notice process.

However, I do have a question and it would save interrupting the member at another moment if this could be addressed. I am reflecting on the broader principles of the bill. This would be the regulatory power of the minister to delegate. Clause 15 says that the minister may require the operator, the owner of the system, to actually perform a certain service, maybe for national defence reasons. That could impose quite a financial burden upon an operator of a system. There is this requirement in clause 15 which says that a minister could intervene and say to somebody who has developed a multi-million dollar system, “We want your satellite system to do something for the government”. That is a significant power to have.

If the member would look at the bill itself, in terms of regulatory power the minister can delegate some of that power. It lists areas where the minister cannot delegate, but then it goes on to list where the minister can delegate. As a matter of fact, it even says that the minister can delegate some of this power to the armed forces or a member of the armed forces. I would like to sense there is some kind of framework within that so that a member of the armed forces is not simply delegated the power to ask the operator of a system to perform a service for the government. Could we have a little bit of reflection on the intent there and is there some curbing of that particular power?

I was also pleased that a five year review has been put in. We are talking about sophisticated systems, some which have not been discovered yet but which will be discovered over the next couple of years. The five year review is absolutely necessary.

In principle, we have recognized from the beginning that this legislation is necessary. We have raised some cautions and I would hope that at the appropriate time the member for Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor could reflect on some of them.

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)

The hon. member appeared to be asking questions of the hon. member for Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, but in fact the hon. member for Okanagan--Coquihalla had the floor for 20 minutes. He was up on debate, so questions and comments will now be asked of him, agreed?

Remote Sensing Space Systems ActGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Stockwell Day Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC

Mr. Speaker, I understand that. I was hoping the member would phrase his comments and questions in terms of giving me some kind of comfort that those areas have been addressed. He is allowed to do that in terms of questioning my presentation.