Mr. Speaker, I was in the Middle East and I could attend only the first part of this debate. However, I would have liked to join my colleague, the international trade critic. By the way, he too is totally against dividing this department, which, I believe, has been Canada's strength. I say that in passing because, like the hon. member for Joliette, I want Quebec to become sovereign. I would make sure a sovereign Quebec has a department of foreign affairs that oversees international trade, international development, human rights and, if possible, immigration. Indeed, foreign affairs is the best way for one country to establish relations with another country. This approach to establishing relations with another country includes certain elements, which must be integrated.
I do not understand in the least what could have motivated, justified or explained how we ended up with this fait accompli. For almost two years now they have been working on splitting up this department. I do not understand how this happened. It makes me angry. It is quite shocking that for something as important as Canada's foreign policy, its rapport with international agencies and with foreign countries, they arrive after the fact, without consultation or justification, after nearly two years in the House of Commons, with two meagre little bills. It might be a coincidence, but the international trade bill is thicker than the foreign affairs bill. This comes to us as a fait accompli.
I listened with pleasure to the speech by my colleague from the NDP. It was an excellent speech. A number of the aspects that she listed I will go over. However, I will begin by saying that by separating the departments we are losing the coordination among these aspects we need in our approach to reaching out to foreign countries and international agencies.
I decided to go back a bit into history and find the previous bills—I stopped at the one from 1985, which was adjusted a bit in 1995—to see what the powers and functions of the Minister of Foreign Affairs have been. Let us look at what he was doing or might have done if he had continued to be the Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. First, he heads Canada's diplomatic and consular relations. Fine. Next, he is responsible for official communication between the Government of Canada and the government of any other country and between the Government of Canada and any international organization. Surprise. In the bill on the Department of International Trade, we find it is now the Minister of International Trade who is responsible for official communication between the Government of Canada and the governmentof any other country and between the Government of Canada and any international organization.
Perhaps this is an error, but it seems the Department of International Trade is responsible for official communication. Perhaps in looking at both these acts—because it is not explicit in the other—that there are two ministers responsible for official communication between the Government of Canada and the government of any other country and between the Government of Canada and any international organization, on subjects which may intersect. In fact, how could they not intersect? The problem of coordination is already apparent.
Third, in subclause 10(2)( c ), it says “[the minister shall] conduct and manage international negotiations;”
We live in a time of rapid globalization. Increasingly, countries meet to discuss all sorts of issues that concern them. Coordination is indispensable. Previously, it was the minister who led international negotiations. That does not mean he participated in all negotiations, but he was ultimately responsible.
Where has that responsibility gone? We see, in the Department of International Trade that it is the minister who conducts and manages international negotiations. The minister is also the person responsible for conducting and coordinating Canada’s relations regarding international trade and international investment. Is there not a relationship between international investments and international development, international assistance and international monetary policy? It will now be the role of the Department of International Trade, surprisingly.
When it comes to the role of the Department of Foreign Affairs, it must of course stimulate Canada's international trade. We understand that this role will now belong to International Trade, but I wonder, do they not think that international trade is still involved in our relations with other countries? How can Canada present any consistent positions. How can departments establish priorities when they are dealing with countries that might, for instance, have human rights problems? We know that if there are such problems in a country, either the international community or our own policies will dictate that we cannot trade with it. That is a foreign policy decision.
When the Minister of Foreign Affairs meets with leaders from a developing country and there is a discussion of our relationship and the desire of Canada to help them, he will of course be discussing international trade but will he not add the possibility of increasing international trade, under certain conditions? Even if stimulating Canada's international trade would appear to be the responsibility of the Minister of International Trade, this is not always the case.
The Minister of Foreign Affairs was also responsible for CIDA, and that will continue.
I have, however, just questioned the connection between international development and international trade. Is this not the coming trend? We saw that at the Kananaskis summit, in connection with Africa, former PM Chrétien's pet cause. The first way to help the countries of Africa would be to establish trade links.
This is, once again, proof of the close connection between foreign policy and international trade policy. There is no way to disentangle the two in real life. This applies to the duties of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who ought to continue to be the one responsible for everything involving Canada's relations with other countries but it also applies to the embassies.
It is very interesting. In recent weeks, we have been asking questions in the embassies. They assure us that nothing will change, but they also tell us that the staff is greatly concerned. Some of them came in via the foreign affairs route but specialize in international trade, and others, vice versa. How will they sort it out? They do not know and they are greatly concerned. I will address this again later if there is any time left. I do, however, want to raise the point now because it is a serious problem. The effectiveness of embassies depends on their skilled and devoted staff, but they are very worried at this time. We have already heard the criticism of the former heads of mission.
We can see that the Minister of Foreign Affairs shall coordinate the direction given by the Government of Canada to the heads of Canada's diplomatic and consular missions. That is fine, but the heads of Canada's diplomatic and consular missions also have international trade responsibilities. What are the priorities? How will human rights requirements be taken into account?
The next subparagraph reads, “have the management of Canada's diplomatic and consular missions”. Management, it says. In these two bills, there is nothing about the management of priorities between these very important components, as if priorities were to be set by the Prime Minister's Office. The question needs to be asked. There is no mention of where priorities will set. Will the two ministers get together to discuss them? That makes no sense.
I read further, “foster the development of international law and its application in Canada's external relations”. Did you know that this was part of the bill on the international trade department?
The Minister for International Trade shall, “foster the development of international law and its application as it relates to Canada's international trade and commerce and international investment”. It is as if they could have totally separate mandates, with no overlap; as if contacts could be avoided between departments—and I have said nothing yet of the committee—regarding their mandates with respect to trade issues or foreign affairs issues. As I said before, those issues go hand in hand.
I read further, “carry out any other duties and functions that are by law assigned to the minister”. When I look at what functions remain with the Minister of Foreign Affairs after many were assigned to the Minister of International Trade, I notice that there is not much coordination left for him to do. Coordination involves management, and management involves strategy development.
The great concern with these two bills is that they seem to have been hastily drafted in response to some imperative that I am still unaware of, perhaps in keeping with what my NDP counterpart said. Is it because certain business people complained that they were obligated to comply with constraints imposed by Foreign Affairs on the Exports Credit Insurance Corporation, which now bears a different name? Could that have something to do with it? If so, this information must be shared and very soon.
We talked earlier about the public. People must know what drives Canada's relations with other countries in terms of trade, international aid, immigration.
As for these two bills, both of them are missing something. There is a complete lack of coordination between the two and the impossibility of coordinating two departments that share the same playing field. This leads me to say that dangerous improvising is going on, which will result in abuses.
I find it very strange that this bill was introduced the same day the new Minister of Foreign Affairs was sworn in. This is very strange. This means that not only were Parliament and the committee not consulted, but the subcommittee on international trade was not consulted either. It seems to me, too, that the ministers themselves were not consulted.
So we find ourselves in a disturbing situation because we are in the dark. We do not know what is behind such an ill-advised policy. When I asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs, when he appeared before the committee, what he thought, he was quite evasive. He said that there were always consultations with the business community. That is what he said. Would this have been after pressure from the business community? I want to say once again that if this is the case, it must be admitted because this is extremely ill-advised and incomprehensible and it distances us from so-called Canadian values—in many cases, they could be considered universal ones—which Canada wants to champion or says that it does. We are in extremely dangerous territory.
Community groups in Quebec with an international focus are also very concerned. They can worry all they want, because they are not getting any answer.
It seems that there is no priority amongst trade, foreign affairs, human rights and international development. If such priorities do not exist, who will set them?
Will international trade be excluded from the requirement to respect what are considered Canadian values and could even be considered international values?
As my colleague from Joliette, the international trade critic, pointed out, what business people and world leaders talk about when they get together in Davos is not how to make more profits, but rather how to fight world poverty. This way of fighting world poverty requires—and some people admit this—that trade be regulated and that natural resources developers in developing countries be forced to respect laws. If those laws cannot be made at the local level, they must be made at the international level. We cannot attempt to protect the environment and at the same time let the African mines be operated the way they are now.
Time flies too fast. We will be discussing this issue again in committee, but the Bloc will certainly not accept this decision to split a department that allows us, in response to pressure from various people in society of course, to have one policy, to speak with one voice. To all those who believe in international development, in the fight against poverty and in establishing trade rules while promoting economic development, this decision is extremely harmful and damaging and they will be working to make sure that it does not become final.