Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the New Democratic Party caucus and the constituents of Winnipeg Centre, I am happy to share our views on the opposition motion put forward by my colleague from Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles with regard to what I believe is a very creative and innovative idea to amend the Criminal Code to allow the government to seize the proceeds of crime in a more readily available way.
If I understand the motion correctly, it is to reverse the onus on the persons who we believe have benefited from crime to demonstrate that they acquired those assets through some honest means and not criminal activity.
I am enthused about that idea because I represent an inner city riding, the riding of Winnipeg Centre, where crime and safety are top of mind in virtually every citizen that I poll and survey on this subject. Like many members of Parliament, I frequently canvass and survey the views of the people who live in my riding. By a factor of three to one, the top of mind issues that they cite are crime and safety. Even health care and education rank way down the list. The people in my riding are irritated by the obvious outward demonstration of wealth by people they know full well are involved in some type of criminal activity. They are frustrated by the fact that law enforcement officers seem unable to do anything about it.
It is time we revisited this idea of the burden of proof. If the proposal put forward by my colleague from Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles gives better tools to law enforcement officers to actually bring justice in these situations, then I am all for it.
Under the category of great minds think alike, I thought members would be interested to know that the province of Manitoba recently implemented such measures as part of its anti-gang program. We believe it now has the strongest anti-gang legislation anywhere in the country and legislation that is very similar to what has been put forward by my Bloc Québécois colleague.
I thought members may be interested in knowing a bit more about this recent legislation. I believe this new law came into full force on December 11, 2004 , which is what we in Manitoba call the criminal property forfeiture act. The whole idea of the law in Manitoba and the proposal by my Bloc colleague is to take the profit out of crime and make it less profitable. The secondary effect would be that criminals would not be able to use the proceeds of crime for more criminal activity.
If we make it easier to give the civil law process the tool to seize and freeze the proceeds of unlawful activity and have them forfeited, then not only does the message get sent that it is not that easy to enjoy the proceeds of crime, but people will not be able to keep the proceeds of crime and will not be able to use these proceeds to commit further crimes, as in the case of grow ops or property used for them. I think it makes eminently good sense.
Another twist to the Manitoba legislation is that the money reaped from the sale of seized properties and assets will be dedicated to the anti-gang program, which includes money for police officers and for various other measures to make our communities safer.
Every police force in the country is strapped for resources. One of the most compelling interviews in the days following the terrible tragedy in Alberta was listening to how quick four RCMP officers said that they could have used more police officers on duty that day and more backup had the resources been available. That is a common complaint from every municipal, provincial and federal police force in the country. They do not have the resources to keep up with the swelling tide of criminal activity.
What is being put forward today is a revenue stream. Under the Criminal Code we already have a way to forfeit the proceeds of crime after a conviction has taken place but only under specific circumstances. That fund is useful because it gets divided up among the provinces to be used for law enforcement.
In the Manitoba legislation, which is very bold, no such conviction has to take place. Manitoba reversed the onus on to the people who are involved in a criminal activity to prove that they bought a property, a car, a ring, or grow op drug paraphernalia through a legitimate stream of income. It is a very stringent burden of proof.
I think Manitoba's legislation is the toughest legislation anywhere in Canada. It was challenged in very aggressive ways by the opposition Conservative Party in Manitoba. Ironically, that party protested and objected because it felt that innocent people could end up having their property seized. I can assure the House that the legislation was examined with a fine tooth comb to make sure it stood up to any charter challenges about individual rights being violated by this groundbreaking legislation.
I think the House would be interested in a real life scenario that has occurred since the Manitoba legislation became law.
A well-known member of a large outlaw motorcycle gang, who shall remain nameless, was living with his wife in a Winnipeg suburb in a brand new $375,000 home purchased last year. No mortgage was registered on the home. The title was registered in his name and his wife's name. Neither he nor his wife had filed an income tax return in over five years. A luxury car, a motorcycle and a boat were parked in the driveway, all of which were registered in the name of a corporation of which he is a director.
The chief of police for the city of Winnipeg obtained an order under the new legislation which allowed him to seize the vehicles and to place a notice at the land title's office about the property. He went to court and satisfied the judge that the man was more likely than not a member of a criminal organization, in this case, a motorcycle gang. The man could not demonstrate where the money had come from to buy any of the items and he could not show any legitimate sources of income. As a result, the properties were forfeited to the government.
The court also did not accept that the man's spouse had any source of income and in fact ruled that the property was likely obtained through crime and no one could demonstrate otherwise. As a result, the government sold the property, subtracted it and the police expenses from that amount, and the remaining money was handed over to legal aid.
That was a revenue stream and it would not have been possible without Manitoba's groundbreaking legislation. That was a graphic illustration of how the idea put forward by my colleague from the Bloc Québécois could work on a national level.
I wanted to speak to the motion today because I am very proud that Manitoba has taken tough action against organized crime in this way. What used to drive people crazy was that these guys could actually flaunt it. They could rub our noses in the fact that they were making thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars, a year from criminal activity. As we know, selling illegal drugs yields enormous windfall profits. The police, who are bound by this burden of proof under the current Criminal Code, cannot act even though they know full well that these guys get their money through selling dope.
We could stop people on the Sparks Street mall and ask them whether they would like police officers to be able to actually act on what they know to be true instead of being held back by this burden of proof under the Criminal Code which, by necessity, has to be very stringent. I am sure they would agree to shifting the onus on the criminals to prove they did not buy their house with the proceeds of crime. It is just common sense.
I suppose there may be some bleeding hearts who would say that it may infringe upon private rights but I do not accept that. I think we have gone beyond that in terms of the scope of the problem. Naturally it has to be able to survive charter challenges, as my colleague across the way said. I am looking forward to the first charter challenge on the Manitoba legislation because this has been developed by authorities and constitutional experts across our province and, believe me, it would not have been introduced if we had thought it would fall as soon as it was put in place.
We look at similar legislation in other jurisdictions that has had a net effect. Perhaps the best bonus is not just the revenue stream that we could tap into, but the fact that it drives criminals away from those jurisdictions.
The criminal assets bureau in Ireland, for instance, has reported that a large number of high level criminals have left Ireland as a result of the vigorous pursuit of the forfeiture of the crime related assets. Ireland's legislation seizes crime related assets to such a degree that it is not all that profitable to commit those crimes in Ireland so they leave. What could be better? They drove the snakes out of Ireland and now maybe they are driving the drug dealers out of Ireland.
The office of Nassau county and the district attorney in New York report that certain illegal businesses have been driven out by attacking them through the state's forfeiture laws. For example, so-called legitimate businesses that are fronts for other illegal businesses, such as gambling and prostitution specifically, have been driven out of the state of New York and Nassau county because of their rigid forfeiture laws that reverse the onus in that situation as well. This particular district attorney points out that the forfeiture of luxury cars owned and flaunted by drug traffickers has had a positive impact on the neighbours particularly affected by drugs.
In the state of New Jersey, the department of law and public safety reports that a number of traditional organized crime families in that state have been decimated. Their legs have been cut out from underneath them because they have not only taken away their luxury toys, they have taken away their ability and their resources to commit more crimes.
I should point out that in Manitoba we can seize a luxury car, a house, the property, jewellery or a boxful of cash if the person cannot demonstrate where he or she got the boxful of cash. Criminals saying that they found it on a street corner probably would not pass the test of any judge in the province of Manitoba. We are ganging up on gangs is what it is.
We saw Quebec, and Montreal specifically, suffer through gang wars. Quebecers would not tolerate it any more and called for firm action. They called for an iron fist in dealing with organized crime, and specifically motorcycle gangs. We are in the same boat and we are not going to tolerate it. Nobody is going to pussyfoot around on this issue.
I would point out again that the purpose of our legislation in Manitoba is to make crime, particularly organized crime, less profitable and more difficult to commit by confiscating the property obtained through the breaking of law. Unlawful activity covered by the legislation includes any provincial or federal offence, as well as similar offences from jurisdictions outside of Canada.
I should also point out that no conviction is required. This is a civil court proceeding in which the court must be satisfied that the origins or the intended use of the property is more likely than not to be illegal. If the property has been obtained through illegal activity or it is about to be used for an illegal purpose, we will take it away, sell it and use the money to put more police on the street to catch more people. That is common sense.
This is the fun thing about being in government. If people have any courage, they can do that kind of thing. If they do not have any courage, they just stay in government forever like the Liberals and do not in fact ever do anything that really has a meaningful effect on the safety of our citizens.
Just to clearly differentiate this from the Criminal Code activities that can also seize property and sell it, in this case the judge cannot and need not find anyone guilty of any offence in the seizing of this property. Really, I think it is fascinating. Property owned and possessed by members of criminal organizations or by a corporation in which a criminal organization member plays a key role, in other words, the clubhouse of the bike gang in this case, is presumed to be obtained through unlawful activity unless the owner can prove it was obtained through legitimate means.
How is that for cleaning up a bike gang clubhouse in a residential neighbourhood? Instead of having to drive by it year after year knowing full well that illegal activity is taking place and knowing full well it was built, bought and paid for by the proceeds of illegal activity, now we can just seize it and put the burden of proof on them to prove to us that it was purchased through legitimate means.
Any chief of police, under our legislation, which includes the commanding officer of the RCMP, may apply to the Court of Queen's Bench for orders to seize and forfeit or confiscate property that is either the proceeds or an instrument of the illegal activity. This is revolutionary. This is very bold legislation.
The Manitoba government becomes the owner of the property at that time and it then must sell the property and must use the money for crime prevention initiatives. There is a specific designated use mandatory in this legislation. It cannot just go into general revenue and pay for health care or anything else. It has to go to crime prevention. This is why it has been so enthusiastically greeted by the citizens of Manitoba. Those who wanted more money spent specifically on crime prevention now have the avenue of a revenue stream they can look forward to other than a tax increase.
The money can be used for these specific purposes: for crime prevention initiatives or to assist victims or to fund legal aid in the provinces. Victim compensation is another whole chapter of Manitoba justice that we have recently expanded greatly. It came to our attention that victims are often left out of the criminal justice system completely, especially when it comes to compensation.
Certainly I am very proud of what we are doing in the province of Manitoba. I am very heartened and enthused by the proposal put forward to us by the Bloc Québécois through their opposition day motion. I encourage the federal government to examine very carefully what we have done in Manitoba and to expand this throughout Canada as far as it is jurisdictionally allowed to, or at least take steps to encourage provinces to undertake a model like the Manitoba model.
We are proud of it. Everybody here wants to stamp out crime. Here is a good viable way to take a step in that direction.