Debates of March 8th, 2005

The Budget

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have a very short question. Could we, my colleague and I, have an answer to our questions?

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Speaker, what I am trying to tell the hon. member is that we are not happy with the budget. Canadian farmers were promised the U.S. border would be open to cattle by the end of the summer 2004 but that did not happen. The Prime Minister promised the largest number of women candidates as part of his team for the 2004 election but that did not happen. He failed miserably and fewer women were appointed to cabinet than previously.

The Prime Minister visited my riding twice, once as finance minister and again during the 2004 election, and promised to provide funding for the South Fraser perimeter road but the people of Fleetwood—Port Kells are still waiting.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, it is a great pleasure and honour for me to rise today to talk to this question.

On February 23, the Minister of Finance tabled budget 2005 in the House of Commons. I think all Canadians, especially we in Atlantic Canada, have reason to celebrate. The one weakness of it is that not all the money will be spent in West Nova and Dartmouth. Otherwise it is a very good budget.

Budget 2005 has delivered. It has given Canadians what they want and what they need. It builds upon past Liberal achievements such as the new health care accord and the offshore oil and gas agreements. It has kept the promises that we made to Canadians during the last election. As the Prime Minister reminded Liberals gathered in Ottawa over the past weekend: promises made; promises kept.

Response has been positive from across the country and from across the floor of the House of Commons also. The Leader of the Opposition said that he was pleasantly surprised, and I understand his party will be supporting the budget. In doing so, it sends the message that the Liberals have provided Canadians with a responsible and sound fiscal plan for the future.

In honesty and truth, we could say that it is our budget, that it is a Conservative budget or that it is anybody's budget. This is a budget for Canadians. It delivers what Canadians need, using their resources to build on their communities. It is also a dividend on the sacrifices that Canadians from coast to coast to coast have made in tackling the huge deficit problem and paying down the national debt. We are now in a position where we have financial stability, where we can look to the long term and where we can respond to serious problems in our country. This provides us with some important opportunities to make those investments and commitments.

Budget 2005 will ensure that Canada moves forward on the initiatives that matter most to Canadians such as building upon our solid social foundations, making major investments to preserve our natural environment, addressing climate change and committing resources to help us meet our global responsibilities.

It is important to note that budget 2005 is very good news for Nova Scotia. Like the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, the people of Nova Scotia face unique economic circumstances. The government is committed to creating opportunities in all parts of Canada in order to build a stronger nation.

The Government of Canada and Nova Scotia now have an agreement that ensures that the people of Nova Scotia will be the primary beneficiaries of their offshore oil revenues. This agreement fulfills the Prime Minister's promise to provide Nova Scotia with 100% of its offshore energy revenues without any corresponding reductions in equalization payments. The deal was the culmination of months of intense negotiations. It provides the provincial government with additional resources to grow their economy, invest in social programs and infrastructure and strengthen the region for the benefit of all Canadians.

I would be remiss if I did not congratulate the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans for his part in negotiating the deal between the Minister of Finance, the Prime Minister of Canada, the Premier of Nova Scotia and the Minister of Economic Development for Nova Scotia.

I also would like to thank the Premier of Nova Scotia for his tone in the discussions and for always keeping his eyes focused on what was important such as delivering the goods to Nova Scotians and to Canadians rather than taking perhaps cheap and dramatic shots across the bows.

Also I would like to thank the leader of the Liberal Party in Nova Scotia for his support for the deal and for not turning it into a political game of us against them, or Liberals against Conservatives or New Democrats in the legislature. He kept his eyes focused to ensure that the federal government and the provincial government negotiated a deal that would be to the benefit of Nova Scotians and all Canadians.

I believe that is what happened. I am very confident about what it does. Nova Scotia was in the same situation as Newfoundland and Labrador with a huge and crippling debt load that took all the money needed by the provincial government. I was often frustrated at the provincial government because it did not deliver the services that were needed in Nova Scotia. In all honesty, look at the debt load and the manoeuvre capability it had within its budget. It sometimes made the wrong choices, but often it did not have any potential choices to make.

This gives room for us to talk about improving our highway system and its security for Canadians. It will improve the safety for families and children travelling to school. It is also economic opportunity, getting goods and services to the markets at reasonable cost and making us more competitive with our friends and neighbours.

There is also the question of education. We have grievous concerns in Nova Scotia as to the quality of the education being provided to our children. This gives some flexibility. The province can now make investments in classroom size, extracurricular activities and in programs that we may see as non-core, but which I see as very essential. These include theatre, music, drama, sports and all the other elements that are very important in the full social development of our children. This will give them the same chances that children of other provinces have, chances that have been lacking in Nova Scotia.

We have a huge investment In our health care system, which I will speak to later. There is also the possibility of the province having some flexibility in its investment in innovative areas in the health care system. We have seen in the past while some areas in which it has done very good work with very little money. Look at the issue of the cardiovascular surgery and heart surgery. Nova Scotia had a big backlog. With an investment of $5 million, we were able to bring the wait list down to a reasonable length. It is understandable that those who are suffering or waiting for surgery would like it to be faster, but if we look at national standards, Nova Scotia is now there. When we look at the question of the nurse practitioner service to outlying communities, some very innovative things have been done with very little money. Now they have some flexibility to do even more.

We know of the problems with seniors and housing in certain parts of Nova Scotia, especially the rural parts. We know of the problems with people of advanced age, especially if they live alone in old stock housing. We know of the cost to them and their families. Now there are possibilities. The province has money to move.

When we talk about that deal, we also have to talk about the equalization agreement: the $33 billion being provided, the floor being raised and the guarantees to provinces like Nova Scotia, as well as the $41 billion in health care. All told there is $200 million or $300 million more that Nova Scotia can count on each year. Add to that the GST, which is no longer being paid by the municipalities, the return of the gas tax to municipalities, the child tax credits and the millennium scholarship.

I mention those as examples. In the past there was not that flexibility, which perhaps was the cause of the province not providing the programs to the people for whom they were designed. It also withdrew some equivalent programs so the poorest people did not get the benefit they should have from the child tax credit. I will give the benefit of the doubt to the province that it was its tight financial situation that caused this. Now I think we have alleviated that problem. It is to the benefit of all Canadians that we ensure Canadian families and children have the ability to reach their potential.

Nova Scotians have consistently identified health care as their number one concern. Our families come first, and the government has committed to making significant strategic investments in our health care sector. That is exactly what we have done.

In September 2004 the first ministers signed a 10 year plan to strengthen health care, which will provide $41.3 billion over 10 years. Budget 2005 builds on this with an additional $805 million over five years in new direct federal health investments such as healthy living and chronic disease prevention, pandemic influenza preparedness and drug safety.

Nova Scotia will receive $1.16 billion in health care funding over that period. Of this amount, $988 million will be for core health funding, $15 million for new equipment and $157 million for reduced waiting times. It is important to know that the money for reduced waiting times and health human resources will be continued past the initial five years, and we will not create a stress in Nova Scotia.

What is the effect of this? We are at the very beginning of this program. We already can see what has been done in the last while and it should be what we can expect in the future. In my area two MRI machines have been announced. One is for Kentville and the other for Yarmouth, at both ends of my riding. People are at their most difficult time in life will no longer have to drive three hours for an MRI at the Queen Elizabeth Health Centre in Halifax. They will no longer have to pay for a couple of nights in a hotel. They will no longer have to call upon their families or friends to miss a day or two at work so they can receive this care. A lot of stress has been taken off those people because they now can get their care close to home. That is very important.

Not long ago the Yarmouth hospital installed a digital x-ray. The small health facility could not afford that, but with the help of federal money, it has been installed, as well as a new state of the art CAT scan, all connected by the Internet to specialists all over the world.

The technicians at the Yarmouth hospital, who are under great stress and who operate the digital x-ray, can now quickly deliver diagnostic images to doctors so they can make their decisions. They can also receive from anywhere in the world some backup expertise or analysis of that imaging. They now can be more confident, when working in a rural or isolated setting, that they have the support and tools they need to practise there.

Hopefully, this will alleviate part of what I consider to be the biggest problem for health care in rural Canada, and that is the question of health human resources, doctors, nurses, technicians and all those who are needed. It is inconceivable to me that in 2005 we have thousands and thousands of people in rural Nova Scotia who do not have a family practitioner. We have to take care of this.

The money will help create new seats in medical schools. It will help improve the recognition of foreign obtained credentials. We then will be able to alleviate that health human resource problem.

An important target has been set that we would give over this term primary health access to 50% of Canadians, and we would ensure that. This is good and it is reasonable and attainable. My fear is we could do that very easily if we go to the major cities. Almost 50% of our population lives in major urban areas.

Hopefully, the provinces will take a bigger challenge and divide that again within their provinces fifty-fifty. That would be 50% in the outlying areas and 50% in the urban setting. That would contribute much more to providing the health care needs that Canadians need. That is a challenge for all of us.

In our communities there is a growing number of seniors and new challenges resulting from longer life expectancy and more vigorous lifestyles. To address these evolving needs, the budget invests in a wide range of policies that matter to seniors, from income security programs to retirement savings, assistance for people with disabilities and for caregivers and support for voluntary sector activities.

The guaranteed income supplement benefits for low income seniors will be increased by $2.7 billion over five years. Funding for new horizons for seniors' programs will be increased by $50 million a year to promote voluntary sector activities by and in support of seniors.

Last week I was in a small community hall in Brooklyn, Nova Scotia. This is a small tight knit community. Families have been there for a long time. They have a community hall and a new horizons program. Seniors meet there, sometimes to play cards, or to quilt or for a community meal, but always in support and with the intent of creating a community. They know they can count on one another to be there and be part of the safety net which they need. For the social fabric of that community, programs like this will assist in that.

If we look at the seniors and the voluntary sectors in all our communities, the amount of work that is done is fantastic. These people bring forward a lot of experience and knowledge.

I spoke with Mr. Gérard d'Entremont.

This is a man who retired from the Université Sainte-Anne maybe two years ago. Previously, he had a lovely garden, but it has started not being so lovely any more. I asked him how it was that, since his retirement, he was taking a little less care of his garden. He said that,when he used to work at the university, he always had an hour of free time when he arrived home to work in his garden. But when he retired, people said that, since Mr. d'Entremont was no longer working, he could go and represent them in Halifax, go to the meeting in Montreal or elsewhere to get an answer to all these questions. So he no longer had the time to devote to his garden

It must be recognized that retirement does not necessarily mean rest for seniors, just a change of mission. Often they are much more likely to volunteer in their communities and help out.

Albert and Bonnie Johnson in Middleton took their retirement not very long ago. Mr. Johnson was a school teacher, an educator. Since then he and his wife have been working 20 hours a day on different projects and on similar projects.

I do not know exactly how Al Peppard is, and he would not want me to say it in the House, but I know he is well past 100. He still plays hockey and still volunteers for all sorts of activities.

John Pearce, a young retiree, a village commissioner, president of the village commission, works for approximately 30 village organizations.

There is also Jean Melanson, a retired teacher and entrepreneur. He is a municipal reeve and leader of the Acadian community in Nova Scotia. He is always helping the communities out. These are people are indispensable to us and cost us nothing.

The same is true of Edward LeBlanc in the community of Argyle, whom I knew as a municipal reeve. The church depends on him a lot, as do the caisses populaires.

There are thousands I should mention, but I would be remiss if I did not mention Ruth Pink and her husband Irving, regrettably departed, who have given so much to the community of Yarmouth, to the hospital, to the organization, to the heritage side. I do not know what we could possibly have done without them. As well there is Remi Saulnier, a retired general in my riding. Every legion branch is asking him for assistance, as are the golf course and the universities. Of course the West Nova Liberal association depends on him greatly. These are but a few of the people. There are thousands of others I could mention, but my time is limited and I must cover a few other areas.

Budget 2005 provides $5 billion in new investments to build a foundation for an early learning and child care initiative across the country. This is a crucial first step if we want to grow our communities and make them attractive places for new and young families.

Speaking of new families, the budget is good news for our military. My riding is home to CFB Greenwood, the largest air base on the Atlantic coast. 14 Wing has a personal strength of approximately 2,050 regular and reserve force members and 550 civilian employees. As one of the largest employers in the area, CFB Greenwood injects millions of dollars into the local economy each year. Not only that, but military families help build our communities and enrich their character.

We can scarcely imagine what the communities of Greenwood, Kingston and all the other regions would be like without the armed forces. People of all cultures speaking many languages come to these regions with their skills and the volunteer work that they are willing to do.

The government has committed over $12 billion in new money for defence over five years. This is the largest spending increase in two decades. This includes funding for new troops and new reserves, operational sustainability and the acquisition of new equipment. We need to maintain the Canadian Forces at the highest standard possible and ensure that our men and women have the resources they require to do their jobs safely and effectively, because they are working for all Canadians protecting our interests and protecting our values.

Furthermore the Government of Canada will provide an increase of $3.4 billion over the next five years for international assistance to ensure that Canada continues to meet its global responsibilities, including aid to Africa, debt relief initiatives for the world's poorest countries, funding to combat diseases in developing countries, and support for immediate humanitarian responses such as the tsunami relief package.

Cornwallis, Nova Scotia is home to an internationally recognized institution, the Pearson Peacekeeping Centre. Established by the Government of Canada in 1994, the centre supports and advances Canada's contribution to world peace and security, to the provision of quality education, training and research on all aspects of peace operations. On March 3 the Minister of National Defence announced the government's commitment to provide long term funding to Pearson. National Defence and CIDA will invest $20 million over the next five years to support the centre's activities. I am pleased to say that the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency and the Annapolis Basin Conference Centre are in discussions as to how they can best cooperate to help the initiatives around supporting the hospitality side.

Canada has a proud history of peacekeeping and is considered a world leader in peace support operations. Having adapted to changing international requirements, Pearson is well positioned to play a key role in the coming years. The Pearson Peacekeeping Centre is an economic generator for southwest Nova Scotia. Around this important institution the local community was able to transform a former Canadian Forces base into a vibrant, flourishing community that currently provides over 1,000 full time jobs year round. This announcement is good news for Pearson's 100 employees and their families, for the community at Cornwallis Park and for the people of this region. It is also good news for Canadians.

I would like to thank my colleagues for their continued cooperation in ensuring that we maintain this valuable resource at Cornwallis. I have 20 minutes more of dialogue but I know there is not time. I would be remiss if I did not thank the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, the Minister of National Defence, the minister responsible for CIDA, the Associate Minister of National Defence and the President of the Treasury Board, who all played a role in encouraging and supporting the Prime Minister's decision to maintain Pearson.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately I am not in agreement with the hon. member on a number of issues. In particular, I do not support the budget. I think it is a lot of smoke and mirrors.

I would like to ask the member specifically about his comments on the guaranteed income supplement for seniors. We all know that our seniors have worked hard to make Canada a wonderful country in which to live. They have worked hard and they need to be respected and honoured. They deserve dignity. The seniors who receive the guaranteed income supplement are on a fixed income.

We have been told by the hon. member and by the government that the government will be providing in the budget $2.7 billion. It sounds like a lot and it sounds like good news until we do the math. It works out to be $36 a month for a senior and with the clawbacks, it amounts to only $18 a month.

Can the member in all good conscience say that $18 a month for seniors is going to meet their needs? They have increased costs for rent, for gasoline for driving their cars, for insurance, for medical costs and on and on it goes. To say that the government is going to take care of seniors, show them dignity and respect and then it gives them $18 a month, can the member in all good conscience say that provides for the needs of our seniors?

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, like all members of the House, I would like to see the guaranteed income supplement go up. We would like to see old age pensions go up more than they have. However we must recognize that there are competing priorities. We must realize that there are competing priorities for the seniors also.

Seniors have many desires and needs. If I ask seniors in my riding what their greatest concern and their greatest priority is, the answer is no different from that of any other Canadian. It is timely access to quality health care services within a reasonable distance of their home. That is why we have made a huge investment in that area. I was talking about the Yarmouth hospital, the Kentville hospital and the requirements for more health care professionals. That is but one element but probably it is the most important element.

The other element I have been told that is very important to seniors is security. They would define that in many ways. One would be a good highway system. They want good transportation systems. We have in the budget the implementation of the Canada-Nova Scotia agreement, the stabilization of the funds going out to the provinces and the increase. We are giving the provinces the capability to do that.

Another element of security would be in policing. The potential of working to ensure the security of our provinces and our country is very important to seniors. It is also there.

Many of the seniors in my riding are in great support of the military. They would see that the money we are putting toward the military, toward improving the recruitment, improving the lifestyle conditions of members of the military and their families, and the equipment that they have is very important.

For seniors there are many competing priorities.

[Réal Lapierre, Bloc, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Speaker, usually when we examine a budget, we try to make a connection between the spin-offs in our regions and their immediate impact on our constituents. However, it is clear from reading this budget that the true impact on the well-being of my constituents will be felt only starting in 2007, which is in itself a slap in the face.

Immediate measures, whether they are intended for older workers laid off when their plant closed, low-income seniors or milk producers in my riding, as affected by the cull cow problem, are non existent or very tenuous. The same is true of the alleged benefits of the gasoline tax; in the short term, the tangible results can be counted on the fingers of one hand in my riding and, obviously, are almost negligible.

It is clear that the this should be an easy decision for the opposition parties to make, since, despite the Liberals' overblown promises, the goods delivered fall far short of the public's expectations.

How would the Liberal member who just bragged about the goodies in this budget interpret the support of the Conservative Party for a budget it finds lacking and is constantly slamming?

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot speak for the members of the opposition parties. They are capable of speaking for themselves.

With regard to the other question, the member should be happy to know that we can confidently predict surpluses for another five years. As a result, we can intervene immediately, with programs on, for example, employment insurance reform, health, equalization, infrastructure and ones providing funding to the provinces for early childhood needs. I think this is extremely encouraging and very easy to support.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, first I want to thank the hon. member for West Nova for his efforts in getting the finances for the Pearson Peacekeeping Centre in Cornwallis. That is a very important centre and I want to congratulate him on his efforts in securing that funding.

I notice that when Liberals do not want to talk about something, we only hear what they want to talk about. One of the big concerns is the tax breaks that the Liberals have given. The corporations in Canada reported an 18.8% profit for 2004. Who gets the big tax break? The corporations do, of 2%. The insurance and banking industries made record profits, and I would say on the backs of Canadian consumers. What do seniors and families in Nova Scotia get? For a long time we have been asking for the removal of the GST from home heating essentials. Could we move toward that and give every family in the country a fair tax break on that? The answer is no.

The member talked about the Liberal leader of Nova Scotia supporting the offshore oil accord. I remind him of Francis MacKenzie's comments when he initially said, “Take the $640 million and run with it”. He was not that supportive of the offshore deal. He had a quick conversion when he realized that the deal was coming down the pike, for which we are very happy.

As a former minister of fisheries and oceans, does the member not believe that the money for the Coast Guard for capitalization should be used to build the ships right here in Canada?

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, there are very many points and I do not have time to answer all of them.

However, the member points to what is not in the budget. I can tell him that what is not in the budget are the NDP's promises of everything for everybody, that all our dogs will smell better, and which would drive us into huge continued deficits. No such empty promises are in the budget. There are some very well forecast, well financed items that we can afford and continue with surpluses, making sure that tomorrow will be better than today. And today is a very good day indeed.

[Michael John Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend the member. Twenty minutes is a very short time to talk about this budget which has so many good things in it.

The member is very familiar with ACOA. He was a minister with ACOA responsibilities. He is familiar with all the great work that has been done by the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.

This is a great budget for the people of Atlantic Canada. One of the reasons is the reinvestment in ACOA. I wonder if the member would talk a bit about what has benefited from ACOA in his riding and what it might do for Atlantic Canada and West Nova in the years to come.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I could use another 20 minutes on this subject. The refinancing of the ACOA Atlantic partnership program is fantastic. That program was put together by the Atlantic caucus some five years ago. It has been very successfully implemented over the last three years.

I mentioned Cornwallis. Acadian Seaplants is there with over 20 Ph.D. level scientists studying how to develop products from seaweed. They are successfully marketing those products all over the world.

There is the Middleton campus of the community college and the geographic information centre in Lawrencetown, with over $5 million in research, working in partnership with the private sector, the provinces, the municipalities and many federal government departments.

There are small community organizations which have economic development potential. They want to work toward developing their communities to compete internationally and give their entrepreneurs a heads up.

Through the strategic community investment fund, we can continue to make very good investments. It is a very good program and is enjoying great success.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Grey—Bruce—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak about the 2005 budget. This is my first speech as an MP representing my constituents of Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound.

I will be splitting my time with my colleague from Battlefords—Lloydminster.

The most important issues in my riding are no different than those in the rest of Canada: seniors, health care, agriculture and funding for infrastructure. I intend to touch on all these issues and show how the Liberals have continued their tradition of failing Canadians.

Improving infrastructure in Canada's cities and towns through programs like the rural infrastructure fund and the transfer of the gas tax is vital to building strong, dynamic and livable communities. While returning some of the gas tax back to the people who pay it is a step in the right direction, the government has no real plan on how to do it in a fair and equitable manner.

Rural Canadians, simply because of their geography, pay the biggest percentage per capita of the gas tax, but have to battle large urban centres as big as 250,000 people for their share of the funding. The bottom line is that they will not get their rightful share.

The Liberal government has a history of promising a lot and delivering very little. Nowhere in this budget is that more obvious than in the area of its commitment to seniors.

In 2004 seniors made up 13% of our population and that will double by 2030. There are 1.6 million guaranteed income security recipients in this country. My riding has one of the highest populations of seniors in the country. The funding increase to this fund is at most $36 per month and that is not even available until 2007. Additional funding for seniors receiving this fund will barely cover a package of Tylenol.

We in the Conservative Party believe that the commitments to seniors in this budget do not go far enough. It is apparent that the Liberal government does not have the appropriate strategy for improving the lives of Canadian seniors. The Conservative Party would also ensure that seniors have better access to health care and the ability to stay in their homes longer. Seniors should be respected and given the dignity they have earned. We will be watching the government closely to ensure the money is used to benefit seniors and not wasted in more bureaucratic red tape.

Another area of great concern to my constituents is agriculture. My riding is the largest producer of beef and lamb in the province of Ontario. There is also elk, bison and others, just to name a few. All of these producers have suffered tremendously under the weight of the BSE crisis.

This 2005 budget makes no commitment to the agriculture sector and rural Canada to provide aid at a time when Canada's regions need it most. To say the budget failed to meet the expectations of the Canadian agriculture community would be a drastic understatement.

The Canadian agricultural community is in its worst financial position since the Great Depression. Yet, farmers will get no more cash in their pockets this year from the budget's agricultural programs. Our farmers deserve more respect.

Last week's injunction by an American judge that stopped the U.S. border from opening yesterday as planned magnifies why the government's refusal to directly put up front money into a plan to address the severe shortage of packing facilities in this country simply shows a lack of concern. Let it sort itself out, Liberals muse. This problem is not going to sort itself out. It is time to act.

In spite of the minister's acknowledgement that increased slaughter capacity is a necessity, Liberals brag about the September announcement of a $66 million loan loss reserve program that was later downgraded to $37 million. The program is a sham; it does not exist.

The finance minister has once again deceived the food producers of this country by misleading them to believe there was actually $130 million in new money for agriculture. However, when we take away the pre-announced and recycled money, it is closer to $30 million and most of that will not even be available until 2006, if even then.

What the budget should have included but did not was: desperately needed tax deferrals on 2004 income for producers hit by drought, crashing commodity prices and the BSE crisis; tax incentives to increase domestic cattle and other ruminant slaughter capacity; and a provision of direct loan underwriting for the development of increased slaughter capacity, as well as improvements for crop insurance.

The government declared yesterday in the House that it has already sent $38 million to the victims of the tsunami disaster, with which I have no problem. The problem I do have is the government's ever growing disdain for the food producers of this nation.

While spending 30% more on this terrible tragedy than it did on agriculture this year is downright sickening and humiliating to the agriculture sector. This government thinks so little of the future of where its food will come from, but then it does not receive many votes in the countryside does it.

In addition to being a farmer, I am also a father and soon to be a grandfather. When my wife and I were raising our three boys, we made the decision that she would stay home with them. I would like my family to have that same choice, but with the same financial options as those parents who choose to work. However, the government is not going to make that possible.

This 2005 budget contemplates massive spending on a bureaucratic child care program instead of delivering child care dollars directly to parents. This budget contains big, unfocused spending commitments with no plans on how the government intends to deliver funding for a national child care system, opening the way for billions of dollars to be mismanaged and lost in yet another Liberal bureaucracy.

What is worse, the government offered to buy the votes of working parents while snubbing its nose at those who prefer to raise their own children, whether by themselves, a grandparent, a relative, or a friend. It does not matter. Those very parents should be able to make that choice, not the government. They should be able to do that without being penalized financially. The government is simply saying to go get a job and to let it look after the children.

Health care is one of the most important social programs to Canadians. It is an essential contributor to quality of life and standard of living. Canadians deserve to have a family doctor. In towns in my riding and others across this country, there are thousands of people who have to go to the emergency room for care. They do not have a doctor and they cannot get a doctor.

Canadians also deserve shorter wait times. The budget only offers a one time commitment for catastrophic drugs. There is no long term commitment to this necessary measure.

Simply throwing money at health care is not enough. There must be a plan. The one chapter of the Romanow report that has not even been remotely addressed is the chapter on rural health care, which will cost approximately $6 billion. Again, rural Canada takes it on the ear.

The cost of the bureaucracy has grown 77% since 1997 and yet the Liberal tax relief will amount to just $16 next year for low and middle income Canadians. That is sickening in itself. Many of the steps taken by the government do not go far enough or occur fast enough to have a substantial impact on Canadians.

Substantial tax relief for business that would grow the economy, create jobs and enhance government revenues that fund high priority programs has been delayed into the future. This budget is big on promises, big on recycled promises, but very small on substance. Canadians expected more. They deserve better.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, one of the things that has been mentioned in some of the debate concerns the size of the surplus and the fact that there have been seven surpluses already with the expectation of the eighth in this current fiscal year. It has been suggested that this means Canadians are over-taxed.

The surplus is determined six months after the end of a fiscal period and any surplus that is determined as a result of the Auditor General's sign off on the financials is automatically applied against the national debt, which since 1996 has gone from 37% of revenue to about 17%.

Does the member consider repaying a debt and saving interest charges not to be an appropriate expenditure of the Government of Canada?

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Grey—Bruce—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Speaker, before I answer the question directly, I must remind the member that until a former Liberal government we never had a deficit to even worry about paying off let alone what it has become. Of course, we have to put something toward it.

We all know about the inquiry that is going on right now. There was $250 million that could have been used to pay down the debt, could have been used for health care, or could have been used for agriculture. What did it get spent on? That money was funnelled into a program that ended up putting a bunch of it back into that member's party.

If money is going to be put back into that debt, then by all means, I do not have a problem with doing that. However, we all know where a lot of it has ended up in the past.

[Marcel Gagnon, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to the Conservative member's speech and liked it very much. It shows me how closely aligned our ideas can sometimes be.

I agreed with his statement that this budget was humiliating for producers. That was his word, humiliating, and I wonder if the hon. member does not also consider it just as humiliating for the unemployed. They have been misled and had the contents of the employment insurance fund taken away. Now they are getting only a trifle back, and virtually nothing of what they have been requesting.

Is it not also extremely humiliating for seniors, who have lost most of the guaranteed income supplement over the past 12 years? They have been led to believe that they will be reimbursed immediately, but it will be only in 2007. In addition, only in five years' time will they see the amount they had been promised, $2.7 billion, whereas they were deprived of $3.2 billion.

I would like to know whether the hon. member agrees with me that this budget is humiliating for many people in society and certainly does not keep the promises made by the Liberal Party.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Grey—Bruce—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I pointed out in my speech to the budget, what was offered to seniors was definitely very humiliating as well as to a number of other sectors, including the unemployed. Over the years nothing has addressed the EI overpayments, at least not significantly enough. Where did that money go? Maybe that is where the money ended up in the sponsorship scandal. In answer to the member's question, there are certainly all kinds of areas in the budget that were not addressed sufficiently enough.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak today to the 2005 budget.

It is a little perverse and a little hard for people out there in TV land to understand budgets that come and go. As a matter of fact, we were still debating the 2004 budget the day after budget 2005 was tabled. It is just the crazy way this place works. With the election last spring, everything got backed off, backdated and back-end loaded as this particular budget is too.

I know we are not supposed to use props but this budget is government propaganda. The big headline was “The Budget Plan”. The budget is okay, but plan? There is no plan in here, which is part of the problem with this whole budget. We have announcement after announcement and a tremendous amount of money being spent but no plan is in place for how the government will actually put that money into play and get bang for the taxpayer's dollar.

We agree with some of the initiatives and with the direction in which they are going but they do not get there in a proper and precise manner. They are all back-end loaded. To begin with, nothing will happen until 2006 and the big dollars will only be seen by taxpayers in 2010.

What has happened is that the government has changed from its two year forecasting, which it used to do, and under the new finance minister is now using five year forecasts. The Liberals cannot even predict next year's surplus. They have historically underrated that surplus and then spent it down to try to get their numbers to balance and to match.

The minister himself, as late as last fall, was saying that the surplus would only be $1.9 billion. It turns out that he must have been dyslexic because the surplus was actually $9.1 billion. That is a huge differential in budget forecasting and yet now we are working with five year forecasts. If they cannot get five months' forecasting right, how the heck will they do five years? Those guys are traditionally out to lunch on their forecasts.

Budget 2005 contains $42 billion in wish list spending. In some instances it is money heading in the right direction but in a lot of others it is overspending because there is no plan.

Let us go down the list. Kyoto is identified in this budget. It was finally implemented on February 16. They have billions of dollars allocated to a Kyoto type function, addressing the environmental problems in this country, which is not a bad thing, but there are no mechanics, no nuts and bolts to say how they will put that into play.

They are also adding another billion dollar foundation. The Auditor General comes out year after year with scathing indictments on the $7 billion that is hidden away in foundations now. The money in a lot of cases is sitting there. The interest on the money in the millennium scholarship fund is not even being spent on kids for scholarships, which was the purpose of the whole program. It has become another wasteful slush fund. We have no plan on that.

They are going after the auto manufacturers and so on. I received a letter from a car dealer in my riding, Ross Ulmer, who has seven or eight dealerships and is a fairly major player in the auto industry in western Canada. In his letter he states:

In regards to the automotive industry the implications are enormous [of the Kyoto plan]. I am an owner of several dealerships and it does not take a lot of research to find out that the cars that will be offered for sale in 2010 have already been engineered.

The government is calling for huge reductions in emissions and everything and these cars have already been engineered and are already way under the 1990 carbon emissions. GM's manufacturing plants, which are in Canada, are already below 1990 carbon emissions. The clear hard fact is that vehicles manufactured in 2005 are 99% smog free. The dealerships have already done it and yet the government is going after them to do a whole bunch more. The dealerships are already within the Kyoto guidelines. The government is way off track on where it is going on some of these initiatives, again squirreling money away.

Health care has again been addressed in the budget. The Prime Minister is on the record saying that he will fix it for a generation. The problem is that it will take a generation to implement his fix. Again, there is no plan, just a lot of money being thrown around. He will control the rules and the spending. The provinces will not be allowed to fulfill the needs in their provinces unless the Prime Minister okays them, stamps off on them and says that it is okay to go. They are starting to do their own thing, and rightly so, because they have to.

Let us discuss infrastructure. The Canadian Chamber of Commerce says that we have a $66 billion problem in infrastructure. How do the Liberals address that? They address it with $600 million in the first year.

These were all part of their election promises and throne speech promises. Now they are saying that they are delivering on their commitment but we could deliver what they are delivering in a wheelbarrow. It is not going to take much to get that money out for these programs.

Let us look at agriculture. This is another year that agriculture and primary producers have been insulted. Agriculture was barely mentioned in last year's budget and no dollars were allocated. This year, after another horrendous year on the farm, agriculture shows up and there actually is a bit of a program for it but there is no plan and no money. The $130 million under the agricultural envelope in this budget is 0.3% of the spending. Agriculture, which is the third largest contributor to the GDP of this country and a huge trading component that creates jobs, receives only 3%, and it is in trouble.

Those guys missed it again. We have the border staying closed and we are not seeing any relief or any plan from the Liberal side. They talk about promises made and promises kept, but they have no plan on how they will implement any of these so-called promises.

Of the $130 million that was allocated in the budget for agriculture, $5 million is to be dedicated to PFRA. Those are government bureaucrats. This money will increase their management capacity to start moving out of western Canada across the rest of the country. We have been calling for the agriculture minister to allocate another $5 million to the PFRA but it was not for more management. We wanted more water wells drilled. We wanted a fall program to parallel the spring program that is always overbooked. A fall program would have alleviated a lot of that summertime drought when wells tend to dry up and disappear. The Liberals did not do it. They put it into management for more bureaucrats.

Another part of the allocation will be $21 million for the Canadian Grain Commission as it withdraws services from the prairies. Where the bulk of the testing should be done at terminal, it now only wants to do it at port. The commission's concern was that it did not have the budget to keep on doing it at terminal but if it is done at port we will lose the capacity to blend and gain a grade. The problem we have in the west right now is years of drought, frost damage and so on. We need to blend off that product in order to keep farmers farming. However we give another $21 million to a government agency that is not farmer friendly because it is withdrawing services.

We have $17 million added to the loan lost reserve program that was introduced as part of restructuring of the livestock industry last September. They allocated $38 million to it and now they have put in another $17 million. It is not all bad because it is supposed to stimulate processing. However when we had people from the Canadian Bankers Federation before committee the other day they said that no forms were available on the website or from the banks for anyone to trigger the first $38 million let alone talk about this other $17 million. Everyone says that a loan loss reserve means that people have to go broke before they can ever have the government come in and underwrite on that processing facility and that it will not stimulate any sort of packing expansion in Canada.

Things will have to be done through tax credits and regulations. We need to get CFIA out of people's face and allow them to do what they need to do, such as process some of the excess livestock that we have here. The only thing that deals with the farm gate is the $104 million program over five years of cash advances to livestock producers but it will not start for another full year. Other than taxes staying high for farmers, the budget contains absolutely nothing that will give farmers a bit of a break.

The only thing mentioned in the budget that will give farmers a glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel is that the cash on deposit for the CAIS program will be withdrawn for 2003. However, again there is no plan. We have since asked the minister when this would happen. We know he has the provincial ministers, every farm commodity group and all the opposition parties in his face to get this done. The deadline for having one-third of the first cash deposit is at the end of this month. The guys out there are crying for cash and now they have to find the cash to squirrel away in a bank account at this government's whim because it needs them engaged. Producers are engaged to the tune of $44 billion debt. They are engaged in putting that seed in the ground or breeding that cow. They are already there.

The government also saw fit to withdraw the services of the farm improvement loan, which is a big hit again to Saskatchewan because we use those loans for capital assets on the farm. There is no more access to lending institutions. We are tapped and so are they. The government is sending a signal to the lending institutions that it does not want to backstop farmers so why the heck would a bank?

As was stated by other members, it is a negative impact. The budget contains no tax relief, pennies a day, and the equalization problems that Saskatchewan faces, like Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia did, are not even addressed. It is a billion dollar hit to Saskatchewan.

Time after time the government forgets where Saskatchewan is and, for that matter, the rest of Canada outside the Ottawa bubble. Even though the finance minister is from Saskatchewan, he does not even get it. Thankfully, other members of Parliament from Saskatchewan are here to get that message through.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this budget has left me speechless. I have listened to my colleague. This budget has deprived thousands of women of their voice, and this I feel needs pointing out on this International Women's Day.

Older women will not get any increase in the guaranteed income supplement before 2006, and then it will be $18 a month. Single mothers will have no help in finding accommodation; women aged 45 or 50 who lose their jobs will have nothing, because there is nothing in this budget for them either.

I represent these women who are today without a voice. I ask my colleague whether he will give me and all those women a voice, by voting against this budget?

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the member from the Bloc is absolutely right. A lot of people feel they have lost their voice with the government.

One thing the Liberals have always said is that they want to form the government. They are good at doing that and have been doing it for the vast majority of time in this Confederation that we call Canada. However there is a big difference between forming government and governing. It is in the governing context where they stumble, trip and fall. They cannot seem to identify with the fact that government is the people.

What do the people want? They do not want to be led by the hand. They want to be shown some leadership which they are demanding. They do not want a crisis created by the government and then have the government rush in to fill that need. They want truth and reality in government but they are not getting it. They are feeling disenfranchised. We are seeing that in the lower and lower voter turnouts across the country.

The government has basically been telling untruths about the money that will be put into different programs. We have seen that in agriculture, in health care and across the board in every federal government program.

The point was made that the bureaucracy has grown by 77% in the last 10 years and yet services to the people are being withdrawn, and especially in rural Canada. We are seeing less and less impact there but we are seeing more and more government intruding in our lifestyles. It tells us to stand back, that it will take our money because it knows best how to spend it. It tells us to be happy but we are not happy.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member made a good evaluation of some of the farming issues that our people are facing now. What is also important to note in the budget is the actual $5 billion in corporate tax cuts.

In my constituency we have done a lot of outreach, mailings and received feedback in e-mails. I have not run across anyone in my constituency who has suggested corporate tax cuts. In fact, even the big three corporations that I represent in my riding have called for an auto policy and for fixing our border but they have not called for tax cuts in terms of the Canadian Auto Parts Council resolution.

If the farmers in his community had their choice, does the hon. member know how would they would rank corporate tax cuts versus appropriate aid for the situation they are in?

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that we would need a better definition of what constitutes a corporate tax cut.

The budget mentions a 2% reduction in the corporate tax rate from 21% to 19% but that is over 10 years. It will take 10 years to move 2%. What is the cost of inflation, the cost of production and everything else doing in that same 10 years? They are probably ratcheting up far more rapidly than that.

Certainly farmers need to see some tax relief. We still have guys who are overburdened with the drought, livestock problems and everything else but the government is still demanding that they pay taxes. It does it on many different levels. The offloading by the federal government over the last 10 years has created a tax burden at everyone's doorstep.

We are seeing that ratcheting up. We are receiving less health care but we are paying more taxes. We have less infrastructure but we are paying more taxes. We have less services on any government situation we want but we are paying more taxes. Even the so-called huge tax cut the government implemented a few years ago never showed up on anyone's tax forms. I defy anyone to show me where it was. It did not show up on my form or on any of my family's forms. It was ratcheted up and eaten up by other things.

We have three different layers of tax grabbers in the country and each one has its wish list and all come after the same target. As the federal government backs off in certain areas, the provincial government has to step in or the RM has to step in because they are no longer getting the cash transfers that used to come from the federal government.

We saw $25 billion carved out of the health and social transfer to the provinces. Where did that money get made up? It was made up at my doorstep, just like every other taxpayer.

What is wrong in this country is that we need a unified voice when we talk about tax relief and letting people do what they do best, which is getting on with their lives.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Rivière-Du-Loup—Montmagny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to share my time with the hon. member for Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel. First, I would like to thank all women for the contribution they make to our society, since it is International Women's Day. We ought to do so every day of the year. In the future, we will need their services even more, especially to ensure peace in the world.

I rise to speak in the budget debate and to explain why I will vote against the motion. Yesterday we voted on the Bloc Québécois subamendment. It called for the budget to be amended in order to resolve the fiscal imbalance and truly reform the employment insurance program. It was rejected. The Conservatives and the Liberals voted together. This is where we see a basic difference in the House. Some people can live with the fiscal imbalance and the misappropriation of $45 billion from the employment insurance fund.

In every election campaign, the public is told, especially by the Liberals, “You will see, we are going to change the system. It will be made fairer. Your seasonal workers will get a better deal. When older workers lose their jobs, there will be a program to help them”. But when the time comes to bring in a budget, they are forgotten.

That is why, all over Quebec, the current opinion is that the budget should be rejected. That is also why we, the Bloc Québécois MPs, the majority of the members from Quebec here in this House, will vote against this budget.

The fiscal imbalance is not only a matter of principle. The current situation means that in my riding, for example, the Montmagny—L'Islet health network is facing serious financial difficulties, as the director was telling me recently. People are not satisfied at present because Quebec does not have the money to meet the basic needs of this network. It is also felt in the provincial highway system and in Quebec's support for the development of tourism.

A case in point is the student strike that has just recently seen students camp out in front of Quebec's National Assembly building because the Government of Quebec does not have the necessary resources. It is caught in a squeeze between the needs of the people and the federal surpluses. It is not getting its share.

Equity, there must be of course, but we must also understand the phenomenon. That is why we, in the Bloc Québécois, consider it important to settle the issue of fiscal imbalance so that the people get their money's worth and the governments of Quebec and the provinces, which have responsibilities, have money available.

Naturally, the money in the EI fund belongs to the workers and employers. Over the past 10 years, a $45 billion surplus has been accumulated, and this money was used for purposes other than what it was intended for.

Had a reasonable surplus been maintained, money would be available today for the program for older worker adjustment. Our workers are told, “This is globalization, which increases exports and enhances trade”. Great, people are being penalized, and our system should allow us to help them. The federal government is not helping them right now.

The same is true of women. They continue to be discriminated against when they re-enter the labour force. Theirs is the most severely penalized segment of the population. The government has made promise after promise during election campaigns, but the EI plan has never been overhauled. That in itself is reason enough to vote against this budget.

There are other major reasons, however. For example, I will read an excerpt from a letter from one of my constituents. He wrote concerning the letter he wrote the Prime Minister about the Manoir des pommiers project, on Hôtel-de-Ville street. This is a project to build 30 non profit housing units for low income seniors 70 years old, who require some assistance. He indicated that the project would be included in the SHQ's April 2005 programming, provided funding were allocated to the province in the next federal budget.

Well, we do not have that money. Despite the Prime Minister's promises, there is no money in the budget for social housing. For these people, the project will be delayed. They need these housing units and are going through difficult times. Considering that there are big surpluses, why does the government not allocate the necessary funds? Why does it not act so that, in the end, these services are provided to the public? This is another reason to vote against this budget.

I am also very concerned about another issue, namely reinvesting in productivity. In December, just after the closure of six textile plants in Huntingdon, the federal government came up in great haste with a work plan, a very incomplete work plan to help the textile and apparel industries.

Just yesterday, the Standing Committee on Industry, Natural Resources, Science and Technology heard people from the textile industry and the apparel industry. There is deep discontent on both sides. Those involved in the apparel industry feel that things are not moving fast enough. Indeed, the announcement was made in December, but nothing is happening yet. The textile sector, which is not an outdated industry but very much a modern one, provided it has access to markets, is not in any way satisfied with this program.

I hope that the issues to be discussed by the Prime Minister, the President of the United States and the President of Mexico at their summit will include restoring access to U.S. markets for the Quebec and Canadian textile industry. I am telling the federal government that what was needed was not money, but a commitment. This is what we expected in the budget. But there was none. We expected another type of investment in productivity.

Recently, I wrote to the Minister of Transport Canada to ask him, now that the government has decided to retain ownership of port facilities, such as the Port of Cacouna, if he was going to have a development plan. He told me unequivocally that there is no development plan. However, there should be money for it in the budget. I hope that funding will be forthcoming from Canada Economic Development to allow for such development plans. Not only does the infrastructure have to be in place, it has to be in good condition. Furthermore, we have to ensure it is available to meet economic needs. Unfortunately, no assistance was provided in this budget, as expected for this sector.

Also, the report by the Standing Committee on Finance contained a unanimous recommendation to establish a funding program for events to replace the funding that social organizations, cultural or tourist events lost as a result of the sponsorship scandal. We are in perfect agreement. It is not about legalizing or renewing the diversion of funds, as the Liberals did. However, it would have been appropriate for this budget to have made funds available to provide the necessary assistance to our organizations. Festivals, such as the Festival de l'oie blanche in Montmagny, the Fête des chants marins in Saint-Jean-Port-Joli or the accordion festival, were used to receiving some funding. This funding was well spent, as was the amount the organization in our region received. However, nothing was done about this proposal, because they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar and they dare not remind anyone of that. They are very ashamed of what happened. Nevertheless, the government should have made the distinction between the system it implemented to help its friends and the needs of organizations, which have yet to be met.

There are many unmet needs as a result. I have another example: Parks Canada. The budget announces a little more money. I have looked into it, and this means $11 million next year, whereas the Auditor General had said that massive investment was required for the parks, because we are so far behind as far as infrastructure quality is concerned. More investment was necessary, and sooner. For example, there ought to be new investment in my area, for Grosse Île and the Irish Memorial, the park commemorating the Irish immigration to Quebec and Canada. This may come only in two, three or five years, unless more funding is forthcoming.

This is, therefore, a very disappointing budget on a number of levels. The election campaign produced a minority government. Quebeckers have said what actions they wanted the government to take, particularly as far as the budget is concerned. These were major points, such as fiscal imbalance, employment insurance, social housing and investments to ensure that the money paid to Ottawa in taxes was returned as productive investments in Quebec. None of these are found in this budget, however. That is why, in my capacity as the representative of my riding and in my capacity as a member of the Bloc Québécois, I cannot stomach the government's proposals. I find the Conservatives' attitude quite a surprise, since they have seemed from the start to be having an identity crisis and not to know which way to turn. They seem more afraid of an election than of making a firm decision, a objective evaluation of the budget.

I hope—I am sure—that the public will be able to judge the whole situation. Yesterday our subamendment was defeated. Today, we will be voting on the Conservatives' amendment. Wednesday evening, on the budget. Rest assured that the vote of the Bloc Québécois will represent the will of the people of Quebec, which is that we say no to this budget. It does not meet the needs of Quebec.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a comment for my colleague from the Bloc.

First of all, I would like to make it quite clear: Conservatives are not very happy with this budget. The member keeps saying that we are supportive of everything in the budget. We are not happy with this budget.

However, aside from that comment I would like to ask a question of my colleague from the Bloc. In The Globe and Mail this morning, and I do not know whether my colleague has had an opportunity to read it yet, there was a piece done by one Jeffrey Simpson. He raised a question on the spending philosophy over the next five years, the commitments being made with respect to the budget over the next five years. He pointed out that in 2007-08 there will be a $7.9 billion increase, in 2008-09 a $12.6 billion increase, and in 2009-10 a $16.6 billion increase.

My question is, why have budgets? Will there be enough room to have budgets in the next number of years? Have we made the cupboard bare? When this government has made commitments over the next five years and there will be no money left, how can we possibly plan for the future other than to perhaps have a budget to raise taxes?

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Rivière-Du-Loup—Montmagny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to the hon. member's speech. What surprises me a little is that he has come out in opposition to his leader.

After the budget speech, the Conservative Party leader was asked whether he thought it was a good budget. He was asked four times and every time he replied that he did not want an election. He sidestepped the question rather than answering it directly.

That is a problem today, because some people say they are unhappy with the budget. Will the Conservatives vote solidly against the budget to respect the will of the people and tell the government that the budget, as it stands, is unacceptable? That is what we will find out on Wednesday.

The government is spreading its appropriations over the next five years. We wonder why they will bother with next year's budget. Let us look just at the measures planned for the coming year. Does it make sense to vote for the budget? Do we find in it anything Quebeckers have asked us for in terms of the fiscal imbalance, employment insurance and social housing? Is there anything the rest of Canada wanted in terms of reduced federal spending?

When these questions are answered, we have no choice but to expect that here, in this House, when we vote on Wednesday, a great many Conservatives will vote against the budget. If not, we will see that they have put their own electoral priorities ahead of the country's needs.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, one of the issues that the Bloc Québécois has been doggedly bringing to the attention of the House relates to the whole area of employment insurance. I know it is very important not just to those in Quebec but certainly right across the country. It is a very important program. The vast majority of Canadians pay into it and never collect benefits because fortunately they continue to have continuous work.

However, there are people who for a variety of reasons do have interruption of work and do have to get benefits. The member will be aware that regardless of how the program is run there has to be some sort of waiting period. If the program were to pay benefits to everyone who worked just one day, that would be a very inequitable situation. Abuses could creep into a system like that.

Clearly there must be some number of days which people must work before they can qualify for benefits. Would the member give me an idea of how many days or months people should have to work before they are eligible for EI benefits?