House of Commons Hansard #81 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was athletes.
Paul Martin Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC
Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has the responsibility to Canadians to give us his vision on health care.
The fact is the three most important pillars of his party, Ralph Klein, Mike Harris and Preston Manning, have now revealed what he is afraid to tell the Canadian people, and that is that he would gut the Canada Health Act, withdraw the federal government's role in health care, and privatize health care. We will not allow that to happen. We will defend Canada's health care system.
Stephen Harper ConservativeLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, it is no wonder the head of the Liberal Party had to write members saying “don't panic”.
I will read the testimony:
Mr. Finkelstein: Do you recall, though, any meeting or get-together of any significance beyond a casual, How do you do?
[The Prime Minister]: No, no.
Alain Renaud: I heard about it at the Convention of the Liberal Party, when the [Prime Minister] and Claude Boulay were together and Mrs. Deslauriers, and they were talking about Attractions Canada. They were talking a lot about it. It was difficult not to listen. I was beside a table, at the Convention, eating a sandwich, and it looked very friendly.
Did--
Paul Martin LiberalPrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, I would suggest to the hon. member that he read the full testimony and that he also read the comments of Judge Gomery when he passed a comment on what Mr. Renaud said.
Having said that, why is the hon. member refusing to address his hidden agenda on health care? Why is he refusing to stand here and deal with the issues raised by Preston Manning and by Mike Harris on his behalf? Canadians are entitled to know what the Conservative position is. Why did he send Mike Harris and Preston Manning out to do his bidding?
Stephen Harper ConservativeLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, if this were not so serious, I would say the Prime Minister is in danger of making himself a national joke.
It is very simple. The Prime Minister testified he had no real relationship of any significance with Claude Boulay. One last time, has he ever sat down and had lunch with Claude Boulay, yes or no?
Paul Martin LiberalPrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, health care may be a joke to the Leader of the Opposition but it is no joke--
Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period
The Speaker
Order, please. The Leader of the Opposition has asked a question. The Prime Minister is attempting to answer and he is entitled to respond to the question that was asked. We will have some order. We are wasting a great deal of time. Some members will be frightfully disappointed at the end that they missed their questions and the answers.
The right hon. Prime Minister has the floor to answer the question.
Paul Martin Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC
Mr. Speaker, only that leader thinks health care is a joke. Those members will not be able to shout down the millions of Canadians who want to defend the health care system. They have now called the principles of the Canada Health Act, the federal role, into account. They now say they want to privatize the health care system, and the Leader of the Opposition does not have the guts to stand up--
Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period
The Speaker
The hon. member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie.
Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier, QC
Mr. Speaker, in his open letter to the Liberals, the Prime Minister wrote:
I made sure that those implicated were removed from their positions as crown corporation executives.
To make things perfectly clear, is the Prime Minister stating that Jean Pelletier, André Ouellet and Marc LeFrançois were let go because they were directly involved in the sponsorship scandal?
Paul Martin LiberalPrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, when these events occurred, the reasons for the dismissal of these individuals were given. Clearly, in the case of Mr. Pelletier, it was related to Myriam Bédard. The reasons were given in every instance.
Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier, QC
Mr. Speaker, this version is in total contradiction to the one he wrote to his supporters. He is getting tangled up in his contradictory versions.
He also says he is the one who recalled Canada's ambassador to Denmark, Alfonso Gagliano. That is his version. Yet he told the Gomery inquiry, in response to a question from Mr. Gagliano's lawyer, “Mr. Fournier, we never judged Mr. Gagliano”. He went on, “and it was a recommendation from the minister that I endorsed, but we never judged Mr. Gagliano”.
How can he state now that he fired him and recalled him from Denmark because of the sponsorship scandal? When is he telling the truth: before Justice Gomery or before this House? And when is he lying?
Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period
The Speaker
The last question may pose a problem, but the Prime Minister can answer the previous one.
Paul Martin LiberalPrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, in the case of Mr. Gagliano, the Minister of Foreign Affairs at the time said that he had been recalled in order to preserve Canada's image abroad. We know very well where the image problem lay: it was the result of the events here, within Canada.
Michel Guimond Bloc Charlevoix—Montmorency, QC
Mr. Speaker, we are hard pressed to understand the remarks by the Prime Minister, who was quite confident about dismissing Alfonso Gagliano, Jean Pelletier, André Ouellet and Marc LeFrançois, risking court proceedings, which subsequently were initiated, but said he knew nothing when he testified before the Gomery commission.
How can he be confident enough to dismiss three heads of crown corporations and an ambassador but say he was not aware of what had gone on?
Scott Brison LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister took very decisive action, first, to remove these people and further, to end the sponsorship program. He set up the Gomery commission, which we absolutely and unequivocally support, to pursue legal action against 19 firms and individuals to recover $41 million for the Canadian taxpayer.
The hon. member is absolutely right to remind Canadians that the Prime Minister has taken action and he will continue to take action on behalf of the Canadian taxpayer and on behalf of all Canadians.
Michel Guimond Bloc Charlevoix—Montmorency, QC
Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Public Works and Government Services has got the wrong tape. That is not the question.
The decision to dismiss everyone was made well before the end of the work of the Gomery commission, as the Prime Minister even brags in an open letter to his Liberal friends.
So since he took decisive action against these senior managers before the end of the commission's proceedings, why then is he refusing to answer here, when the commission has still to complete its work?
Scott Brison LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Speaker, further to the hon. member's question, the fact is the government has acted decisively to strengthen governance within departments and with the comptroller function. The government has introduced whistleblower protection which has the capacity to make a real difference in terms of accountability on an ongoing basis.
Through an expenditure review process, the government has saved the Canadian taxpayer $11 billion over the next five years. That is money that can be invested in health care, in child care and in Canadian cities and communities.
We are demonstrating respect for the Canadian taxpayer and respect for Canadian values.
Jack Layton NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
Mr. Speaker, we have seen no defence of the Canada Health Act. We have seen an epidemic of privatization under the Prime Minister. Let us be crystal clear.
Thirteen years ago, the Prime Minister said that cleaning up the environment was the greatest battle facing humanity. Today, he has laid down his arms. His Kyoto plan breaks his promise. The major polluters can do what they like, and the government will send our money off to Europe rather than clean up our air and our water. Our children deserve better.
After such a long wait, why such a big failure?
Stéphane Dion LiberalMinister of the Environment
Mr. Speaker, I would ask the leader of the NDP to reread the plan, which will soon be tabled in the House and which, as a courtesy, we gave in advance of its tabling to all MPs to read. If he rereads it, he will see the absurdity and inaccuracy of his evaluation of it.
The fact is that the plan will enable us to be a leader in building a sustainable economy and to do our part for the planet.
Jack Layton NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
Mr. Speaker, it is time to redefine a scandal. When we promise to clean up pollution for 12 years and it goes up and people can barely breathe, that is a scandal. When we cave in to the big polluters and Canadians have to pay the bill as a result, that is a scandal.
That is the problem with politics right now. Canadians called for action on climate change, not to surrender. Time is running out. Is this the best the Prime Minister can come up with in the face of a crisis?
Stéphane Dion LiberalMinister of the Environment
Mr. Speaker, it will be my great pleasure to discuss the plan with the hon. member when the plan is released. Everyone in the House will see how partisan the leader of the NDP is today. Instead of keeping the environment above partisan politics, he is involved in partisan politics in a very shameful way.
Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Mr. Speaker, he consummated millions of dollars of business with the government and the Prime Minister at the time was political minister for Quebec. Yet the Prime Minister said to Gomery that he did not know Mr. Boulay. He just had a passing acquaintance with him.
Did the Prime Minister ever have lunch, as another witness testified, with Mr. Boulay?
Paul Martin LiberalPrime Minister
Mr. Speaker, it is actually incumbent upon the opposition to get its facts straight. First, I was never political minister for Quebec. Second, the facts are all set out in the testimony. It says that there may have been social or political occasions where I would have seen him.
However, the issue really is the defence of the Canada Health Act. Why will the Conservatives not stand up now and defend the Canada Health Act? The most important members of their party have essentially attempted to eviscerate it. The Leader of the Opposition and his acolytes have a--