Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in this debate today, although I should not call it a debate. A two hour debate on a private member's bill of such importance does not do it justice.
The member who just spoke, as strongly as he feels about this, I think would agree with me that this issue is not something we can deal with in a two hour debate. It needs a lot more discussion and involvement by both sides.
Nobody in the House would dispute many of the points which my colleague raised, but there is always another side to a story. No one maybe in the country feels more for the working person than I do. I am sure I can say that for all members in the House. That is the reason why we are here.
We have to remember that in order for the ordinary common worker to work every day somebody has to initiate employment. Somebody has to create the opportunities. Somebody has to put his or her money on the line to create employment. It is unfair to say that this is all one-sided.
Nobody would or should condone the abuse of workers by employers. Nobody should condone the slamming of doors if one does not agree with what workers are looking for and bringing in somebody else. To a large degree the laws of the land dictate that cannot or should not happen.
Within recent years, we have thoroughly, debated, discussed and researched decisions that seem to be reasonable. If the interpretation of the legislation is not being upheld or is being changed, then members opposite who sit in government should ensure that the laws are being followed. If there are weaknesses in our laws, then by all means let us change them, but let us change them with reason. Let us change them within the proper forum and with the proper involvement, expertise, input and discussion.
We have to be careful in what we do with legislation because sometimes instead of helping individuals, we can do a lot more to hurt them. I see people who are concerned about their employment this year. I see friends of mine who have been locked out, or are on picket lines and replacement workers have become involved. If we ensure that one side is fully protected but enough damage is done to the other side, nobody wins because there will be no work for anybody. Nobody understands that more than the worker.
The previous speaker said quite clearly that workers go to work every day with the intention of giving a good days effort for a day's pay. They ask for fairness. They want to ensure they protect their employer because without them they will have no work. I know that is true because I talk to them. Workers are sometimes coerced and enticed to do things which perhaps they would not ordinarily do.
Games are being played on both sides just as games are played in the House. That is the nature of humanity and the forum in which we operate, whether it be in the employer-employee relationship or the government-opposition relationship. When we have to make firm, hard, fast and fair decisions, then we have to ensure that they are acceptable to both.
Back in 1999, HRDC undertook an extensive review that resulted in an amendment to part I of the Canadian Labour Code relating to the issue of replacement workers. A task force, chaired by Andrew Sims, prepared a report entitled “Seeking a Balance”. Are we not talking about seeking a balance and not creating an unfair advantage one way or another? Accusations are being made that there is an unfair balance. That may be the case. Maybe somebody will want to argue the other side.
This issue was addressed not by a private member's bill in a two hour debate. It was addressed by a task force which had input from all the stakeholders involved. After thorough discussion and debate, a report was tabled and the majority recommended the provision that would give employers flexibility to meet their operating responsibilities, but would prevent them from using replacement workers to undermine a union's legitimate bargaining objectives. A minority report recommended the prohibition of replacement workers, which is similar to the provisions of this bill.
The rights of the worker are supposed to be protected. I say supposed to be because who are any of us to determine that? The courts interpret the legislation, but the rights of the workers are supposed to be protected in this legislation that was put together as a result of a thorough task force. If the legislation is not working, then perhaps the legislation should be reviewed in the proper forum with the proper input in the proper way from the proper stakeholders.
The overall intent is not something that anybody opposes. The concern is the mechanisms in which we make such changes. None of us can walk in here with an idea to support a friend, a group, a province or whatever without the proper knowledge of the people who are making these decisions. We cannot say it sounds good and go with it because we do not know the effect on the other side. Nor do we know the consequences that may result to the very person looking for this change. In order to have a labour code that protects workers, maybe it is time we did a thorough review.
The relevant portion of the current labour code, section 94(2.1), is a result of the majority report and provides that no employer or person acting on behalf of an employer shall use replacement workers for the demonstrated purpose of undermining a trade union's representational capacity rather than the pursuit of legitimate bargaining objectives. Is that not exactly what the leader of the NDP was asking for? I think it is.
If this legislation is not providing this, and this is what it is supposed to do, then therein lies the problem. Consequently, the review of this should be in a much better forum than we see here today.
It is an attempt to deal fairly with the issue of replacement workers in the federal jurisdiction by accommodating the competing values and interests of employees, employers and the unions. It attempts to strike a balance by prohibiting the use of replacement workers if the intent is to undermine a union's representational capacity, as determined by the Canada Industrial Relations Board.
Nobody argues that workers should not be treated fairly. Nobody agrees that workers can be pushed aside and somebody else brought in to do the work when they are operating under contract or where they are legitimate employees of a company. The concern is that if we are going to change laws and regulations, then we had better do it properly because it is not only the employers and employees who would suffer, but as a country we could greatly suffer also.