Mr. Speaker, I would like to comment briefly on the same subject. I will begin by speaking as well on the points raised by the hon. House leader of the Bloc Québécois. He gave examples of the House having given instructions to a committee in the past.
I do not think there is any debate between him and the government House leader in this regard. The latter explained the circumstances under which it was permitted and the restrictions that applied. It is not a matter of knowing whether the House is entitled to instruct a committee. There are standards to follow, and the House leader listed them and provided a very relevant explanation.
In addition, if members want me to repeat what my colleague said, it would be my pleasure to do so. I have a copy of his speech before me. I thought, however, I would not ask the House to take more than the time required to debate this matter.
The hon. leader of the Bloc Québécois spoke of a normal report. I disagree with him. The government House leader spoke very well on the matter. It is a report under Standing Order 83(1). By definition, therefore, it will lapse at a certain date.
The following are examples for determining whether a report has lapsed. First, a date is set to present the report. After its presentation, as we all know, there would presumably be an opportunity to return it with instructions, and so on, following the rules explained by the government leader. It seems there was no desire to do so.
Then, there was the presentation of the budget. Under Standing Order 83(1), one can certainly ask to make recommendations not on budgets, but on a budget, the one being presented. Once the budget is brought down, it lapses for good.
When we say a budget has been presented that does not mean it has been passed. I do not agree. In my opinion, by the time it has been brought down, instructions for preparing it have already lapsed.
The fact remains that other measures were followed. There was the amendment, the main motion, and the passing of the budget by the members of the House. In any measure, S.O. 83(1) always applies. It no longer applies in terms of this report because it addresses a budget that has already been considered by the House. The bill on the budget is before the House, not the budget itself. In other words, the motion for concurrence is no longer before us.
The House leader from the official opposition said that the amendment was in order and that somehow this did not enable us to rise today on a point of order to discuss this.
We could roll out for you, Mr. Speaker, reams of examples of where the opposition has, several days after an issue has been before the House, decided to rise on a point of order to argue that such a course should or should not take place. I have witnessed so many of them through the years. I remember many of these arguments being made, and if my memory serves me correctly, on several occasions by the one who said today that it was not possible to do that which he did himself on countless occasions. Therefore, I do not believe that argument should deter you from examining whether this motion is in order or out of order. We believe it to be out of order.
The other matter is that the amending motion itself was not put to the House. If you would review Hansard , Mr. Speaker, you would see that it was not done at the time. Perhaps some would argue on the other side that it was not necessary. I believe it was. If it was not properly put, to challenge the fact that it was not, surely it is in order to raise this and ask for the consideration of the Speaker in this regard.
I want to make one final remark as it pertains to the power to report. Marleau and Montpetit states, on page 879:
When reporting to the House, committees must indicate the authority under which the study was done (i.e., the Standing Order or the order of reference).
This is the important principle to be followed when the House leader from the Bloc says that it was a report like any other, a normal report, as he called it. It was not. It was a report under a very specific standing order, as Marleau and Montpetit instructs us on page 879.
On page 886 of Marleau and Montpetit, it states:
A motion may be presented to recommit the report to the committee so that the report may be re-examined.
That part of it can be done provided the report to be examined is still before us, which we are argue it is not.
Finally, someone mentioned that the procedure used in 1926 was still valid. This is an interesting proposition which the House might want to consider. However, I bring to the attention of the Speaker that in June 1985 the House adopted what was known as the McGrath committee report on the reform of the House in which we totally redefined the confidence convention at the time.
That report was concurred in, so it is now part of the way in which the rules must be interpreted by the Speaker. It states, in part, on page 9 of the report, “Defeat on matters not essential to the government's program”, and concurring in a committee report I do not think anyone would argue is essential to the government's programs, “do not require it to arrange a vote of confidence whether directly or on some procedural or collateral motion”.
Now the way in which we do these things in the end I do not even believe is identical to what it was in 1926 in any event.