Madam Speaker, I rise today to speak about the establishment of this new Department of Social Development. I sit on the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills Development, Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities. The Bloc Québécois has found this to be a very serious issue. Later I might get into the Liberal government's hidden agenda regarding the creation of this new department.
This new department has an unstated mission: to invade provincial fields of jurisdiction. Earlier, we were told that the reason for establishing it was to be more responsive to the expectations of the various target groups of the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development.
At the same time, this is just shuffling government employees around. The overall number of departmental employees will remain approximately the same. Out of the 23,947 who worked at Human Resources Development Canada, 10,037 were reassigned to the Department of Social Development and 13,910 remain at the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development. So, public servants were shuffled.
But the unstated mission also has to do with the Liberal government's visibility with organizations. A Liberal member spoke earlier about people with disabilities, saying that they wanted to negotiate with the voluntary and community sectors. We can see what direction the Liberal government has taken with respect to the social development sector. It is very clear.
The sponsorship program, which was providing the government with some visibility in cultural organizations or at events, has been abolished. With that option no longer available, the government is now going to encroach on fields of provincial jurisdiction to make itself visible to the organizations in the various provinces, and in Quebec in particular.
Allow me to doubt the government's great intentions. The objectives may be described as worthwhile. It is true that the provinces have been financially choked by the federal government ever since I was elected here, in 1993. We in opposition have all experienced the drastic cuts to provincial transfers for health, education and social services made through the Canada social transfer.
We know very well that the support for health under the Canada social transfer is now down to a mere 20%. For education and social development, contributions amount to about 11.5%.
The game, therefore, is extremely clear. The organizations, individuals and client groups they intend to serve will be held hostage to the good will of the federal Liberal government. This will be a great way for the latter to remain visible, hold the purse strings and thereby help the provinces overcome its difficulties in responding to the various client groups. We have not mentioned the fiscal imbalance. And there is the rub. I want to repeat what our finance critic said at a Quebec City board of trade session about the dysfunction of fiscal federalism, the cost of the fiscal imbalance and its consequences. Here is what he said:
“The fiscal imbalance between Ottawa and Quebec and the provinces is clearly a dysfunction of fiscal federalism that cannot be permanently resolved through individual agreements or mere increases in federal cash transfers. A new balance must be struck. Overall, the federal and provincial governments jointly collect sufficient taxes to fund public services and meet new needs.”
“Since 1998, there was no less than $140 billion in new federal initiatives, in addition to a cumulative end-of-year surplus of $70 billion. So, our financial leeway totals $210 billion in secret funds that are not subject to public debate.”
The numbers have been manipulated since 1997-98. We are told that there is no surplus, but in fact, this is not true. The federal government is keeping the surpluses for itself while the provinces are unable meet their objectives. They are the ones providing services to the different client groups. In fact, their actions are dictated by institutions, by a Parliament that determines orientations and public policies. So it is extremely difficult for the provincial governments to set long-term strategies, particularly with regard to social development.
They are trying to convince us that the federal government knows best in this sector, when in fact it does not even have the expertise. This is why they wanted to create a new Department of Social Development, and made sure to have a big enough surplus to be able to fund it.
I have some doubts about the funds allocated to this department. They say the total will be approximately $55 billion, to which another $2 billion have recently been added. Yet they had said that this new department would not cost any more. Let us see how it will be run. There is an initial $55 billion allocated to this department, but there is a list of desired clienteles, services they want to deliver, new programs they want to set up. I noted yesterday evening, when we were looking at supply for 2005-06, that there is not yet any figure for certain of the government's social development initiatives. I doubt very much that this budget will stop at $55 billion.
If they want to be serious and really do some social development, then they need to also acknowledge the difficulty the provinces are having keeping their heads above water and serving their various clienteles.
The cost of the fiscal imbalance is enormous. We are told that, between 2004-05 and 2009-10, that is a six-year period, it will have cost the Government of Quebec $24 billion. Imagine how that much money could have enabled the Government of Quebec to better serve its various clienteles and thus to ensure some degree of equity for everyone. Year after year, the shortfall will keep on growing if this problem is not addressed.
And that includes the health agreement. To those listening, and to the people in our ridings, $501 million for health may seem a huge amount. It is, in fact, but the amounts in this agreement correspond to the cost of nine days of operating the system. It seems a lot, but when we take a closer look, it is clear that even with an additional $279 million for equalization, this is but a drop in the bucket compared to the major social and economic needs in the provinces that must be met.
Enough of this great lesson in social solidarity the federal government is trying to give us. They did not hesitate to slash the Canada social transfer in 1997-98. We have never been treated to so much social solidarity by this government.
The consequences have been very serious in terms of the fiscal imbalance and Quebec's basic needs, such as funding for the health care network. It is very difficult to provide. No consensus can be reached without funding, because priorities have to be met.
Education is underfunded. Investment of $1 billion annually would be required. The agreed figure of $500 million annually fell far short and was, in fact, ridiculous in the context of the support needed to fund health care.
Public infrastructures are out of date, intermodal transport remains at the project stage, social housing is significantly lacking, there are gaps in job training and insufficient resources, immigrant integration, essential in view of the labour shortage, is inadequate, and so on.
I spoke of these issues rather than those relating to social development today, because they might be the solution. However, the government is looking for complex and difficult solutions with a department that has policies and objectives to suit each of its various clients.
Resolving the problem of the fiscal imbalance, for example, would be less complex and costly than a new department, which will probably be much greedier than it is at the moment.
As I noted in the studies of the votes yesterday, there were not enough figures available to say how much the government would be spending on the various initiatives. There are initiatives, for example, relating to the volunteer sector, such as new horizons. We did not even see the figures they referred to. The amount mentioned was $25 million. However, we noted that $7 million was mentioned when the votes were studied.
Are they going to ensure these millions are invested this year and not in 2007-08? Yesterday, we would have liked answers to these questions, but the minister did not have enough time to answer all the questions we asked him.
The case is the same for caregivers. My colleague on the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills Development, Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities will certainly mention this later. This plan to help the provinces with social development is rather dubious. If the government respected provincial jurisdictions and if Quebec had the programs, we could opt out with full compensation, without conditions or negotiations.
Just look at the entire saga going on right now with the child care system. It is ridiculous when you consider that Quebec set up a child care system to the tune of $1.7 billion so far, and the federal government is imposing accountability conditions. In addition, we know they are keeping money in their coffers for the next two years to see how the provinces will respond and deliver service to the public.
Given that we now have almost 200,000 child care places available, we obviously do not have any lessons to learn from the federal government, since it even asked for Quebec's expertise on the matter. They should be paying us for our expertise, which cost Quebec taxpayers a great deal, instead of making us wait seven months. The Bloc Québécois denounces both the federal government's attitude and that of the Government of Quebec, a Liberal government, which wants the money with no strings attached.
It is not just the conditions on child care, but also the attitude toward the negotiations and the conditions. If we accept this for child care, then we are setting a precedent for every other agreement in every other sector. The federal government would like Quebec to make concessions and accept these conditions. This will not work in other sectors; it will not mesh with the social and economic issues in Quebec.
It is a question of principle. That is why we must not sign with the federal government, which is trying to impose an accountability program and conditions, especially in sectors where the Government of Quebec has invested billions of dollars. I could even say that the federal government is making money on child care.
Families that have access to the $5 to $7 a day child care system cannot claim tax credits. Since the system was put in place in Quebec in 1998, the federal government has saved $1 billion because the deductions are not large enough to generate a tax refund. Each year for the past six years, Quebec has been providing this Liberal government with $1 billion to fund the child care network across Canada. This means that thousands of families in Quebec are not getting tax refunds. The federal government could have been grateful to Quebec for the $1 billion saving in income taxes and given us the money back. It could have thanked Quebec for having been proactive in that area.
Those who want to be respectful of their partners—whether between friends or in a couple—have to show appreciation for effort and initiative. It is time to stop using negotiations for blackmail purposes. The government has been negotiating with Quebec for seven months. It boasts about our being world leaders. The OECD has praised us for having implemented this kind of system in Quebec. After tapping into our expertise, the federal government expects us to send all our revenues its way, without any compensation. At the same time, we have to do as the federal government says and meet its terms and conditions in order to receive money. That is a very poor way of showing respect for one's partner, especially when the partner in question has made it to the major leagues and made extra efforts.
We will oppose the creation of the new Department of Social Development, first because of its unstated purpose, which is to interfere in provincial jurisdictions. If other provinces wish to set up a national child care system and accept the conditions imposed by the federal government, fine. We have absolutely no problem with that. That is not the issue. We are talking about the possibility for Quebec not to join in, if it is not in its best interests to do so. After all, this is one of its jurisdictions. Indeed, the Constitution of 1867 clearly states that social development, which includes health, education and social services, is a provincial jurisdiction.
All governments in Quebec, whether federalist or sovereignist, have been unanimous on this issue. The National Assembly passed many resolutions condemning this desire to interfere in provincial jurisdictions. The fiscal imbalance is still being unanimously condemned in Quebec. Now, 83% of Quebeckers understand what the fiscal imbalance is all about.
With its hand on its heart, the government is telling us that it wants to help all the various groups. That is a laudable objective, but the government is not taking the appropriate means to be effective and to meet the needs of these groups.
We saw the results of this approach after attempts were made to set up other programs. Three or four weeks ago, the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills Development, Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities discussed extensively the program set up by Human Resources and Skills Development Canada regarding manpower training. There were problems with this program. The NDP had asked the committee to review this issue. Following that, the committee tabled a report on the ineffectiveness of the implementation of a new management process, which was not totally fair to the various groups affected.
The federal government would have us believe that having two departments, two types of programs serving the same groups, is the most effective and economic approach. I beg to differ.
The purpose of this new department is to blackmail some groups and money will be available when they so decide, while the provinces have to meet specific objectives.