House of Commons Hansard #66 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was money.

Topics

Witness Protection Program ActPrivate Members' Business

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

John Maloney Liberal Welland, ON

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-286 would amend the Witness Protection Act to include spouses whose lives are in danger because of the action of their spouse, which is defined to include former spouse, common law partner or former common law partner. A common law partner is a person who has cohabited in a conjugal relationship with another person for a period of not less than one year.

Violence against women remains a serious social problem, despite advances in public awareness, support services and judicial and policy responses such as peace bonds, firearm prohibition orders, incarceration, no contact communication orders, restraining orders. To an irrational abuser, however, civil remedies, such as supervisory orders, custody orders for children or division of matrimonial property, may exacerbate a situation to the point where the only final recourse for the victim's spouse and her children is to escape the threat of personal harm by disappearing.

A commentary on Bill C-286 points out that this proposed legislation will introduce a subtle yet important shift in the rationale for the witness protection program. The existing program is to promote law enforcement by protecting witnesses who are in personal jeopardy because of their involvement in police activities. The proposed bill will add a related but separate purpose, the protection of persons who believe their lives to be in danger from their spouse or former spouse. This protection for individuals would be a goal of its own and not directly related to broader police activities.

I have no doubt that all members of the House agree that support for victims of domestic violence is needed and most commendable. The act will, however, be meaningless unless additional financial resources are committed to cover the expanded role of the federal government and the RCMP.

Currently, spouses who are in such danger that they feel they must flee their surroundings and change their identities do now have some measure of protection under a little known ad hoc process called new identities, unless this has been a victim of the Conservative government's latest round of cuts to federal programs.

With the help of information from police, women's shelters and victims groups, the program assists desperate women in life-threatening situations gain a new identity and relocate by providing them with new social insurance numbers and ensuring continuity of federal social benefits such as employment insurance. This does prevent some devious predators from surreptitiously tracking down their estranged spouse. However, with no separate funding sources, the assistance provided is not comprehensive and falls far short of its aims and objectives, which leads us to the need for this act.

Bill C-286 would also provide a new solid base for the new identities program.

Subclause 7(2) of the bill sets out the factors which should be considered in the case of admitting a spouse to the program. They include: the nature of risk to the security of the spouse; the nature of the injuries caused to the spouse by the severe psychological damage inflicted on the spouse by the other spouse and the criminal record, if any, of the other spouse; the circumstances that cause the spouse to believe that his or her life is in danger; alternative methods of protecting the spouse without admitting the spouse to the program; and such other factors as the commissioner deems relevant.

Unless the criteria for entry are somewhat strict, the program could result in an unmanageable situation in which applicants flood the system. Spouses would have to believe, on reasonable grounds, that their life was in danger by reason of acts committed against them by their spouse and would have to be recommended for admission by a law enforcement agency, which could also include government departments.

Participation in a spousal witness protection program must be well thought out by a prospective candidate who must appreciate both the short term and long term complications. If elements of organized crime are a threat, one is most happy to disappear without a trace. Under the spousal program there is the family dynamic of parents, siblings, grandparents left behind, which could complicate matters. Children who, with the passage of time, may forget or play down the violence and abusive behaviour of the parent left behind, may work to reconnect with the parent, thereby blowing the cover of this protective veil after much time, effort and expense.

In most cases, under the current program, the RCMP erases all traces of a witness' former identity, moves the persons to a new province, pays for job re-training and provides money for re-establishment. A handful of abuse victims have been admitted to the existing program, but mainly for those who have testified against their partners.

When we consider the tremendous number of victims of domestic abuse and violence in our country, one can readily appreciate that there could be much take up under these programs and the funding necessary for the programs would be substantial. At the present time, the witness protection program costs range from $400,000 to $500,000 per witness, which is very significant.

As this bill entails expenditures of money, I hope that the sponsor of the bill has sought an opinion on whether a royal recommendation is required, and if so, that the Conservative government will in fact support such a recommendation. The costs in and of themselves should not defeat an initiative that is worthy of further consideration.

Although it goes beyond the scope of the proposed legislation, serious consideration should be given by this government to working with our provincial partners to provide additional resources to deal with preventive measures and sound programs to get at the root causes of domestic abuse and violence, whether they be programs for counselling in alcohol and drug abuse, anger management, debt management, stress management, gender sensitivity--something we did not see much of on the other side of the House yesterday--marriage counselling, or other interventions that may prevent violent and abusive behaviour. This wish list is extensive but so necessary if we are truly to address the issue of spousal abuse and violence.

We must assist the service and delivery providers throughout this country with much needed resources, either indirectly through the provinces in our social transfers, or directly to the social agencies for assistance programs that do not offend the federal-provincial jurisdictional responsibilities. The bottom line is that the groups and organizations on the front lines need help and financial assistance, help that will pay dividends in diminishing the demand and the need for extensive utilization of a spousal witness protection program.

One of these front line agencies in my riding of Welland is Women's Place of South Niagara, a crisis centre and provider of shelter for women and their children who are victims of domestic abuse and violence. Its doors are open to those who are forced to flee their residences, often in emergency situations, and sometimes with just the clothes on their backs, in order to protect themselves from serious injury or worse at the hands of a physically aggressive spouse or common law partner.

Occasionally an intervention of this nature is the catalyst to defuse an increasingly violent relationship, allowing the parties to reassess such a relationship and either to proceed to a more amicable or at least rational separation or to work to a possible reconciliation and a new respect for one another. Too often this is not enough.

I have listened with astonishment and horror to the anecdotes of abused women from the shelter who are brave enough to tell their stories anonymously. I question how our society allows such situations to occur and why there are not the resources for prompt interventions. It is a sobering fact to learn that some women, for many different reasons, endure up to 30 incidents of abusive behaviour before they seek help to leave an abusive relationship for a much better life.

Some advocates for victims of domestic abuse and violence would like to see a totally new program of protection with decisions of acceptance into the program being managed or reviewed by professionals trained and skilled in making assessments of abused women and children, instead of leaving it to the RCMP to decide which victims need protection. Their concern is that the policing authorities could limit their choices to victims of abusers who have been criminally convicted of a serious related criminal offence. Police involvement would still be required but augmented by the input of trained professionals.

In this discussion I also wish to point out that legally acquired rifles and shotguns are the weapons of choice in cases of domestic homicide. It has been pointed out that guns are frequently part of the cycle of intimidation and violence that many victims face in their homes. For every woman who loses her life at the hand of a spouse with a firearm, there are thousands who are threatened or live in fear. In fact, one shelter worker with the Alberta Council of Women's Shelters estimated that at least 30% of her clients had been threatened with a gun. The opponents of licensing and registration tend to come from regions where guns are more common, such as rural communities and the west. Ironically, these regions are also where firearms figure more prominently in incidents of domestic violence.

The Firearms Act introduced measures for licensing of gun owners and registration of firearms. Coupled with appropriate training and implementation, these measures are essential to removing firearms from situations where women are at risk. Licensing of gun owners is essential to keep guns away from potentially abusive spouses or individuals with a history of violence.

I would hope that the sponsor of the bill would urge his government not to proceed with its commitment to gut the firearms program. Protection of women and children from domestic abuse includes much more than including them in a witness protection program.

The inclusion of spouses in the witness protection program is the last, the final safety net in cases where counselling and criminal law have been ineffective. Women who fall into this category must be given this opportunity to save their lives and those of their children. That is why I will support this bill moving to committee stage for a full consideration, including the testimony of knowledgeable witnesses.

Witness Protection Program ActPrivate Members' Business

1:55 p.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by saying that I am not in any way questioning the good intentions of the member for Lévis—Bellechasse who introduced this bill. However, I think his position is actually contrary to the policies of his party. Although he wishes to protect women and children in our society, by cutting numerous programs, the Conservative government will only put them more at risk. I would like to list some of the programs that were cut.

I acknowledge—and all the statistics show—that women are still the victims of spousal violence. However, given the government's approach that all persons must fend for themselves, I think we are going in the opposite direction from the member's goal.

The government has just imposed drastic cuts on Status of Women Canada. This organization speaks out and advocates for women's equality. Now that it has been muzzled, it will be more difficult for it to advocate for women. We know that financial support for the administration, which allows this organization to function, has been cut, so, again, I would ask that he speak to the members of his caucus and the Prime Minister to reinstate that funding.

On the question of programs for prevention, they are almost completely sidelined in favour of simply making more criminals, creating more prisons and building the prison industry rather than helping those who are at risk through solid prevention programs. The funding, as we saw in the budget, has become so limited that its usefulness is questionable.

On a third point, the Conservative Party has been unanimously against the arms registry. We have seen many crimes in the past year that have seriously endangered what we think of as our country's values. The saw the terrible tragedy at Dawson College, and recently women and children have been the victims of conjugal crimes.

We have to begin questioning why some of those weapons are even present in our society and why the government would not present a bill to simply ban the sale or the presence of these semi-automatic or fully automatic weapons. There is absolutely no reason for them in our society. Friends of mine who are hunters tell me that they do not need them.

Yet these are some of the measures that would begin to help reduce crime in Canada, particularly, as we have seen in the past few years, violence against women and children. I believe those measures, with the appropriate funding, would be more effective in helping address a problem that we have all recognize. We all want our country to have a strong social cohesion, to be a place where women and children feel safe.

I would suggest that these are the measures of which our party would be more supportive.

Witness Protection Program ActPrivate Members' Business

2 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The hon. member for Lévis—Bellechasse has five minutes to answer.

Witness Protection Program ActPrivate Members' Business

October 20th, 2006 / 2 p.m.

Conservative

Steven Blaney Conservative Lévis—Bellechasse, QC

Mr. Speaker, first, I would like to thank the hon. members who spoke to the bill: the hon. member for Ahuntsic, the hon. member for Welland, who asked a pertinent question concerning royal assent—and I think that the speech by the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville will comfort him—and the hon. member for Victoria, who is an ardent defender of women's rights.

At the outset, I want to say that this private member's bill has not been introduced by a single member, but with the support of all the other members of his caucus. I want to underscore the personal contribution and the selflessness shown by our party's whip, the member for Prince George—Peace River, without whom the bill could not make its way through the administrative maze. Members are aware that bills are adopted through a relatively complex process. I benefit from the hon. member's support and logistical help and I thank him for that. This is a cause that is important to him and has been for a long time.

On the government side, I want to acknowledge the contribution of the Minister of Public Safety and the Minister of Human Resources and Social Development who provided me with a great deal of support to ensure that this bill got off the ground. I think all parliamentarians agree with the bill's principles. The purpose of the bill is to protect women from violent ex-spouses. I am glad this is something that is supported by parliamentarians, regardless of the party they belong to or where they are from in this country. Now we have to find a way to make this bill effective and that is why I am working in close cooperation with the ministers I just mentioned.

According to Statistics Canada, there are still far too many women—653,000 women, but also 546,000 men—who encountered violence by their spouse or partner between 1999 and 2004. Some 9% of women even reported that they had been stalked by their spouse. This type of harassment involves repeated threatening or intimidating telephone calls. The spouse might follow or spy on the victim, physically or psychologically threaten the victim or, worst yet, try to kill the victim. Over 60% of stalking victims pursued by an ex-spouse were harassed for over one year.

We realize that this bill is not necessarily perfect and that it will not address all situations. However, if even a single woman in this country, and her children, is protected from her ex-spouse, we will have attained our objective. We cannot expect perfection before taking action. Too many women need our help.

Resources are available to women and I am proud of the assistance provided by Jonction pour Elle to the women in Lévis. The member for Welland spoke of one organization. Many agencies need tools to effectively help women. It is not right for a violent ex-spouse to get away with going to a police station to obtain all the information about the person we are trying to protect.

The House must pass this bill without delay. Naturally, the parliamentary committee will have the opportunity to make amendments and improve it. Time is money and too many women need this bill. I could continue by providing some examples.

It is not true that the bill will be costly. During the last debate, large amounts such as $400,000 were bandied about. That is not necessarily the case. We are looking at a much lower figure, perhaps in the order of tens of thousands of dollars in some cases.

There are also tragic examples. Right in Montreal, violent ex-husbands have gone so far as to enter the houses where these women have sought refuge and to attempt to take their lives.

Our government has been working with the provinces since January 2006 to improve the status of women. I believe that this bill, with the support of members of the House, will be another step that the Government of Canada and parliamentarians can take to ensure that we live in a better society. This is, unfortunately, one of the elements we need at this time to help those women most in need.

Witness Protection Program ActPrivate Members' Business

2:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The question is on the motion.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Witness Protection Program ActPrivate Members' Business

2:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Witness Protection Program ActPrivate Members' Business

2:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

I declare the motion carried. Accordingly, the bill stands referred to the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.

(Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and referred to a committee)

Witness Protection Program ActPrivate Members' Business

2:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think if you seek it you would find unanimous consent to see the clock as 2:30 p.m.

Witness Protection Program ActPrivate Members' Business

2:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

Is there unanimous consent?

Witness Protection Program ActPrivate Members' Business

2:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Witness Protection Program ActPrivate Members' Business

2:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

It being 2:30 p.m. the House stands adjourned until next Monday at 11 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 2:10 p.m.)