Mr. Speaker, I am very happy to speak, especially after the chair of the Standing Committee on Health, who is a member of the government and therefore in a position of authority. I am particularly glad to speak to this motion on the Liberal opposition day. The motion reads as follows:
That...the Conservative government has broken its promise to reduce medical wait times and to provide the necessary funding and resources to achieve the goals of the first ministers’ accord on health care renewal.
We agree in part with this motion by the Liberal Party. It was a toss-up whether the Liberal Party or the Conservative Party was guiltier. In 10 years with the Liberals, the Canada social transfer sometimes missed the mark. The provinces were also struggling to reduce the deficit, at a time when the Liberal government had cut off the funding that would have allowed the provinces to meet the public's needs. Every province was fighting to reduce the deficit. I wanted to give a bit of background.
In Quebec, decisions were made. I am not here to judge the aim of those decisions, but they did let the public down. Many nurses were laid off, with the result that Quebec has a shortage of nurses today. This was done so that the province could meet needs with the money allocated to it. That is why we take a special interest in that part of the motion. But it is hard to know which of the two governments is responsible.
The Conservatives have been in power for just under a year, but from what I have seen, the Conservatives and the Liberals seem to be more or less on the same page when in comes to pursuing health objectives in provincial jurisdictions.
Yesterday I pointed out to the chair of the Standing Committee on Health that I found it somewhat contradictory to see a press release announcing a cancer program in Montreal that Quebec did not want to take part in. He said, rather ironically, that he could understand that Quebec only wanted the money. I would like to explain, once and for all, why Quebec wants the money. It does not want money for money's sake, just to have more in our pockets, but because the programs are already in place. I would like people to stop answering this question in such an arrogant and simplistic manner, which is the only way I can describe it.
Why not respond to Quebec's needs simply by saying, “Yes, it is true, Quebec wants the money and we can understand why because it already has programs in place”. Indeed, Quebec is often a leader in implementing a number of actions and it responds to the urgent needs of the people, especially in health matters.
As far as waiting lists are concerned, we know full well that the current government and the Parti Québécois would have had the same reaction. The outcome might have been different in certain respects, but the problem would have been addressed in order to truly meet the needs of the people. In Quebec, the entire population and the social and economic players know quite clearly and precisely how the government should behave toward the public. Every political party chooses its own objectives in various matters.
If I say we want the money, I do not want to feel intimidated. It is true that Quebec demands that provincial jurisdictions be respected. I am not the only way who says so, all the premiers of Quebec have asked for this. Health is a provincial jurisdiction. Furthermore, in the health accord signed by all the first ministers, a “Quebec clause” exists for Quebec's jurisdictions.
For example, on child care services and on wait times programs are being implemented and there are also reactions in the parliamentary commissions.
We have parliamentary commissions in Quebec for all these issues.
If other provinces do the same, even better. Members must rise in this House and say that this is what their governments want.
Why should we get bogged down in endless administrative procedures regarding the implementation of national programs for which there are often Canada-wide institutions that cost a great deal of money? Millions of dollars are spent on administrative costs.
I will cite only two examples, although I could give a very long list of the cost of all such agencies that oversee the entire Canadian population and all departments, in Quebec and elsewhere. If that suits all Canadians and the Canadian provinces except for Quebec, then good for them. We would understand and would not feel threatened or targeted unfairly.
Why should we contribute to funding the Public Health Agency of Canada, when the same agency exists in Quebec and carries out almost the same mandate? Our request is very simple. We should have a portion of the operating funds from the Public Health Agency of Canada, because it is not needed to supervise Quebec.
I am looking for my notes because I just mentioned the cost of the Public Health Agency of Canada. In the beginning, we all know that the Public Health Branch was within Health Canada. The two roles were divided with respect to all the public servants who work there. Thus, a budget of nearly $354 million was transferred, along with the equivalent of 1,164 full-time employees, to be precise.
Over the years, obviously, costs have increased, first, by $56 million with 385 more employees, then, by $76 million with another increase of 260 employees. Furthermore, some programs were eliminated in research and staffing related to hepatitis C. They decided to end the programs in an attempt to save $63 million.
There was an another increase in 2006-07: an additional $48.6 million and 190 employees; then a further increase of $34.9 million tied to the integrated strategy on healthy living and chronic disease, with another 120 employees.
In late 2006, the cost of managing the Public Health Agency of Canada is $506.6 million and there are now 2,000 full-time equivalent employees.
I am citing these figures because during the committee hearings I remember asking the new director of the Public Health Agency of Canada, appointed by the previous government, what the additional costs would be and how many jobs would be created. These figures were provided by the Public Health Agency of Canada and I wanted to compare them to the cost of my suggestion of transferring to Quebec the money used by the agency for administration and supervision, since Quebec already has a similar agency. For example, the $34.9 million increase in the envelope tied to the integrated strategy on healthy living and chronic disease for supervisory purposes. Why not give Quebec a portion of this money since it has the Institut national de santé publique du Québec? Its representatives also appeared before the committee to provide their input on the increase in obesity among Canadians and Quebeckers.
I should not be told, with a smirk, that we are only after the money. This money would give the Government of Quebec some latitude enabling it to be even more proactive and to improve its human resources.
Today, we are talking about wait lists. Things do move slowly in some areas. That is the reality and I have experienced it. Someone in my family is waiting for intestinal surgery. She had it and is now connected to a tube and has been waiting for an operation for a year, because there is no room.
I know what it means to have to wait for surgery. Certainly, money is not the answer to everything, but if we want more effective strategies, then we need a little more money to pay people and support the public. We are not entirely wrong to ask for more money. Quebec's health minister is currently asking for more money for health in order to meet the public's needs.
Here again, this is not partisanship. The hon. member asked which of us was the more partisan. I believe that everyone is trying to make his or her point. But on the issue of health, the Liberals fell short of the mark for a number of years. The current government is taking the same approach to health, instead of realizing that there is the Quebec clause, looking at that clause and seeing what it can do.
You do not sign just any agreement or use just any words. You do not boast about understanding Quebec society and the Quebec nation. Recognizing Quebec as a nation also means working together to understand Quebec society. That means adopting strategies to meet all the public's needs. A person can distinguish himself or herself by developing a strategy faster than someone else.
The final report of the federal wait times advisor has been issued. The report contains many encroachments on provincial jurisdictions, particularly in Chapter 7. I will not go into this in detail, because the report runs to several hundred pages. I would just like to point out that the current government is still operating as the Liberals did. For example, the table of contents includes public education and contains the following items:
7.1 The need for a public education strategy 7.2 Who is "the public"? 7.3 How Canadians are informed about wait times and implications for a public education plan... 7.5 Factors to consider 7.6 Public education on key transformations
If that is not encroaching on fields of jurisdiction, I believe that many would agree with me in saying that once again it is a step in that direction.
I spoke of the costs of the Public Health Agency of Canada. There is also the Health Council of Canada, which, if my memory is correct, supervises the agreement reached in 2004. They established the Health Council of Canada. How much does it cost? In 2005, the Health Council of Canada cost $3.2 million. In 2006, there was a slight increase and it cost $4.8 million.
What is obvious is that each time there is a federal agency, all the money goes for administration. I am not sure that is the best way of doing things. I am a member of the Standing Committee on Health and I can tell you that Health Canada—which has a very specific mandate—and the Public Health Agency of Canada often fall short of the mark, and the answers to our questions are very feeble. I could give you some very specific examples. I am not sure that they follow the letter of all their assigned mandates, or that they do it in a very effective way. Often, they set out to cast a wide net but in practice achieve the opposite effect.
There is a news release on the effective management of expenditures by this government. They went looking for money. They want to lead by example and check the effectiveness of programs. During the committee meeting last week, the Minister of Health appeared before us and spoke of his generosity toward victims of hepatitis C. He boasted of the existence of a billion dollars for the victims of hepatitis C. However, that billion dollars has still not reached the pockets of those victims.
That is what I told him. I also said to him, “You can boast when you stop delaying and immediately provide a temporary fund so the victims of hepatitis C can have better support at all levels”.
There was much talk about waiting lists, but what is needed is action. I am not sure that either the Liberal government or the Conservative government that is now in power is capable of the best reactions or the best strategies for providing more support to the provinces.
I am not sure whether I made myself understood clearly in terms of the funds Quebec is asking for. In my opinion, what it is asking for is very justified and justifiable, particularly when a Liberal premier whose praises are constantly sung is asking for the same thing and his Minister of Health is asking for the same thing. This is not money being spent foolishly and simplistically, because this is money that will be used to be more proactive in the measures that the public of Quebec as a whole are calling for.
This also brings me to another point. Any talk of waiting lists opens up the broader issue of the fiscal imbalance. We know that the Conservative government is not capable of offering us a concrete roadmap for the direction that will be taken on the fiscal imbalance. The recent economic statement made very little reference to it.
If the Conservative government in power, which accused the Liberals of a lot of things, is going to be consistent, it will pay the fair value of this fiscal imbalance, the value that Quebec’s political spokespeople are calling for. That comes to $3.9 billion.
We understand that these are figures that have already been stated. Various political strategies have been used in order to throw us off the trail, but we know perfectly well that this is the amount we called for to be recognized and to solve the fiscal imbalance. Why? To put an end to the financial pressure on the provinces and on Quebec so that they can meet the challenges they are facing in a number of areas, in this case health care, but also in education and social programs. There is also the matter of equalization.
When that party was in opposition, it said that interfering in areas under provincial jurisdiction was not their cup of tea. Now, little by little, we are seeing that the Conservatives are not entirely prepared to meet the provinces’ demands when it comes to federal government interference.
Obviously, no matter what party is in power, the centralization of national programs is an objective that a majority of the members of this House will pursue, be they Liberals, Conservatives or even New Democrats. Nonetheless, Quebec’s wishes must be respected.
I know that I am going to vote for the bill introduced by the NDP, because it recognized that Quebec was entitled to opt out of a child care program and it recognized that $2 billion was being invested in child care services.
Quickly, I can show how the Conservative members frequently contradict themselves completely. I know that they have managed to scrape together $1.1 billion by making cuts to all sorts of programs. In non-core programs, they are going to save $4 million by eliminating funding for medical marijuana research. I do not know why they want to withdraw from that program. Apparently, it is because it falls within provincial jurisdiction.
I find it ridiculous for them to respect provincial jurisdiction when it suits them, but when it does not suit them, on the other hand, they do the complete opposite. This information comes from a press release give to us by this government.
We could entertain ourselves with the inconsistencies of the present government.