It does sound like debate and not a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I hope that does not detract from my time.
That particular member was stripped of all of her committee responsibilities. I participated on a live radio show with the leader of the NDP at about that time. He said, and we can get this out of Toronto, that he had ordered her to be quiet and he was pleased with her silence. If the hon. member does not think that is effectively de facto eliminating a member from what should be a democratic debate, he needs to take a good close look in the mirror. I am pleased that we are able to have the debate, at least with some parties, and to vote freely on it.
The issue of religious freedom is also one that should be of importance to everybody, whether they claim to be people of faith or not. When we look at history in terms of the development of certain democratic freedoms, we will know that certain religious freedoms give rise to broader freedoms. The freedom to express oneself religiously is so basic to so many other freedoms that when I met with the Dalai Lama about two years ago, I asked that in his world tour promoting world peace, for which I congratulated him, that he encourage every world leader to allow freedom of religion within their jurisdiction.
As we know, over half the world right now does not have freedom of religion because freedom of religion leads to freedom of speech, leads to freedom of association, leads to the freedom of expression, and the freedom to acquire property, to build mosques, temples or churches. It is basic to the freedoms we have. Anything that goes against that is very dangerous and has to be guarded jealously, again, whether a person claims to be a person of faith or not.
I raised questions on this issue in 2005, questions which have not yet been answered, but I would take issue with some of the things that my colleague spoke on. He has greater faith, I would say, in the fact that religious institutions and religious discretion will not be diminished if there is a change, as there is, in the definition of marriage. I appreciate his faith, but I would say to myself, “O ye of little faith,” because that is not what is happening.
In fact, we do know that there have been some cases where commissioners of marriage have been told they will be relieved of their duties if in fact they do not perform a marriage which is contrary to their faith, that being heterosexual marriage. That has already happened, so religious faith is being diminished there.
We have seen cases where religious institutions have faced rulings by the Human Rights Commission and incredible fines because they would not allow their property to be used for certain types of marriages. We have seen cases where individuals have expressed in newspapers, even letters to editors, their religious point of view on this issue and they have suffered severe penalties. Religious freedom is at risk here by those who do not truly understand the importance of allowing that to continue.
I will say in closing that I honour my parents. We have heard members speak about their parents. I honour my mother and my father, who recently passed away, for their demonstration of the importance of marriage, the importance of heterosexual marriage, and the realization that marriages are not perfect. Certainly, mine is not. My wife is, but I, personally, am not, However, the importance to maintain this institution as defined between a man and a woman is crucial.