House of Commons Hansard #24 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was pesticide.

Topics

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 a.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question.

It is true that a number of agencies did re-evaluate 2,4-D. What I found interesting in the research I did was that all the re-evaluations were based on exactly the same documentation, which was produced by a single company and provided to several agencies. While it might appear that the product was re-evaluated several times, in fact it was re-evaluated only once.

I therefore believe in the rationale and the need for rethinking how such products are re-evaluated. What is more, in her report, Ms. Gélinas mentions that the evaluation methods need to be called into question.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, the member's comments were very thoughtful, but I have a couple of factual questions for her.

Is the motion limited to pesticides and herbicides? Approximately how many chemicals would be involved? If the motion passes, could the member also outline the process for it to continue on through the parliamentary system?

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 a.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, if I understood the first question correctly, the member asked about the percentage of cosmetic use of pesticides. I have been told that it represents a substantial amount, up to 35%. I base the percentage on what I have read. I would have to rely upon the experts to give a conclusive answer on that.

He asked about the process to follow up on this, if passed. As I understand, this type of motion originally came from the Liberal side of the House, and I know there is a fair amount of support for it in the House. A similar type of motion has often been considered by many people and communities in Quebec, and I know there is a lot of support there.

If the motion passes, hopefully it will be converted into a bill and pressure will be placed on the government to act as soon as possible.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Northumberland—Quinte West.

First, I would like to thank the hon. leader of the New Democratic Party for raising the important issue of pest management and control. I share with him a deep concern for the health of all Canadians, particularly the most vulnerable ones, the children, the elderly and the sick, the people who are most at risk from unsafe products.

Fear that pesticides are inherently unsafe appears to be the motivation behind the motion before us today. Pesticides can be unsafe and that is why they must be carefully regulated. Thanks to the diligent efforts of Health Canada, only pesticides, where a careful scientific review raises no concerns for the health of people, animals and the environment, are allowed to be sold and used in Canada.

My hon. colleagues will soon be making some important points about Health Canada, the Pest Management Regulatory Agency, the new Pest Control Products Act and the government's rigorous insistence on health and safety. In the time available to me today, I will go into further detail on some of these ideas.

I will speak about the context. Sometimes it is worth restating the obvious, which I will do by pointing out that the PMRA, the Pest Management Regulatory Agency, is part of Health Canada. It is under the portfolio of the hon. Minister of Health, not Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, which was responsible for the regulation of pesticides prior to 1995. The agriculture and forestry sectors obviously have an intense interest in pest control products. There are critically important environmental, economic and trade issues at stake as well.

Ultimately, the most important questions revolve around human health. Do pesticides pose an unacceptable risk to the health of Canadians, in particular, children and other vulnerable subgroups? If the answer is yes, then these products may not be sold or used in Canada. It is as simple as that.

The point is that the PMRA will not gamble with the health and safety of Canadians. If there are unanswered doubts, if the science is inconclusive, the agency will always err on the side of caution. Let me add that pesticides, which are permitted in the Canadian market, can contribute directly to human health. For example, they reduce our exposure to a range of threats, including insects, bacteria, moulds and allergy inducing weeds.

How does the PMRA work? The mandate of the PMRA is to prevent unacceptable risks to people and the environment from the use of pesticides, whether manufactured in Canada or imported.

In reviewing submissions for new products, the agency brings to bear the best available science from Canada and around the world. As a result, our regulatory regime is widely regarded for its stringent adherence to tough, scientifically sound standards and evidence for health and safety.

In assessing a submission, agency scientists evaluate a range of factors, including the effectiveness of a proposed product, its effect on health and the extent to which it might accumulate in the environment over time. Products that are registered and approved for sale are required to carry labelling information, with the appropriate warnings and directions for safe use.

However, I want to underline that the PMRA's job does not end when a product is approved for market. It is quite the opposite. The agency is in it for the long haul. It continues to monitor products once they are in use. That way, if new and unexpected hazards come to light, the PMRA can order the appropriate remedies.

At the same time, the agency also promotes the development and use of innovative pest management alternatives that reduce our reliance on chemicals. The idea is that the needs of Canadians today must be met in a manner that does not compromise the ability of future generations to meet their own needs.

I would like to discuss the new PCPA. As effective as the PMRA is now, my government is making it even better. We expect that a new legislative and regulatory framework for pesticides will come into effect soon, strengthening the agency's capacity to safeguard the health of Canadians and the environment.

Among other things, the new Pest Control Products Act will require special protection for infants and children. This high level of protections is currently applied through policy. It will also take a more comprehensive view of pesticides that considers people's exposure from all possible sources, including food and water.

There are many other features of the new act that are worth mentioning, including an approach that explicitly favours lower risk products. For the first time ever, Canadians will also be able to consult a public registry, which contains detailed evaluation reports on pesticides sold in Canada. The act also extends the powers of the PMRA over products already on the market. For example, it will oblige pesticide companies to report any adverse health effects and it can take tough actions with companies that refuse to comply.

The hon. leader of the NDP is to be commended for raising his concerns about pesticide use. Indeed, we all share his reservations about the overuse of chemicals that can be toxic to people and the world around us.

The answer is not to ban all pesticides. If we did, we would be introducing more problems than we are solving. The solution is to control the use of lawn, garden and other chemicals, ensure that we permit only the safest products on the market, apply the toughest and most stringent rules on their use and continue to monitor them over the long haul, so if new risks turn up we can step in and address them.

That is why we have the PMRA and the Pest Control Products Act. That is why we are moving to make tough and effective regulatory systems even better.

I have faith in the system. I believe in its capacity to protect the safety of Canadians and the environment we all cherish, which is why I will not support the motion put forward by the hon. member opposite.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, I have four quick questions for the member.

First, does the member believe there are no unhealthy pesticides on the market because PMRA does its job so we do not need the motion?

Second, if an insect infestation came to Canada, perhaps from a boat to a major city, and we could not use a pesticide, would the motion perhaps allow the infestation to move to our forests?

Third, the member talked about harmful insects or moulds. I am not totally convinced of this yet. Could the member give me examples of insects or moulds that are harmful and that we would be protected against if the motion passed?

Finally, is the NDP proposing a new method where companies have to prove that pesticides are safe? I prefer it when the government proves pesticides are safe by objective scientists. Is the member talking about a new method of evaluating pesticides?

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member's question touches upon the concerns I have with the motion put forward by the member for Toronto—Danforth. I suggest the motion is overly broad.

The first question raised was the ability of PMRA to regulate products that were already on the market. Since 1995, there have been close to 550 active pesticide ingredients found in more than 7,000 products registered in Canada. Of these, 401 active ingredients were registered before 1995 and 53% of those active ingredients, or 213, have already been re-evaluated by Health Canada. This is done on an ongoing basis.

We have to have faith in Health Canada and our scientists. They are looking into these products.

In terms of his concerns about an overly broad motion hampering the safety of Canadians, the city of Toronto, the home of the hon. member who moved the motion, has a pesticide bylaw with a litany of exemptions.

It is somewhat hypocritical for the member for Toronto—Danforth to put forward a motion that is overly broad, one with which his own city would be uncomfortable. I will use an example of the gypsy moth. It is addressed by the pesticide, Btk, which is effectively used in Toronto. This is a reason why we must be cautious and concerned that we do not put in place a ban that would hamper the health of Canadians.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member confuses exempted products and other more dangerous toxic chemicals.

However, what can the hon. member tell us about the last Auditor General's report on PMRA as to the adequacy of its use of evaluations and norms, the adequacy of the evaluation of new products and the re-evaluation of old products?

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON

Mr. Speaker, as far as previous pesticides introduced into the market prior to the stringent regulation in 1995, I mentioned that 53% have already been re-evaluated. There is a constant ongoing re-evaluation. Of the 401 pesticides, 213 have been re-evaluated. We need to have faith in Health Canada to do the re-evaluations. We also need to have faith in the public servants who give it their all.

Some members may question the dedication of the public servants in the Department of Health. I have faith in the system and its capacity to allow them to do their job in an excellent manner.

To register a new pesticide, more than 200 scientific studies must be conducted to determine if the product would cause any negative effects on people, animals, birds, insects and plants, as well as the soil and water. Canada has stringent rules. We should be proud of them.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Mr. Speaker, if not properly managed, pests can affect our quality of life in many different ways. Fungi or mould can cause a farmer's field of wheat to be unacceptable. Weeds can reduce that same farmer's yield by almost half. Spruce budworm and western beetles are wreaking havoc in many of Canada's forests. Mosquitoes can carry the risk of West Nile virus. No one wants cockroaches in their residences or bedbugs in their beds. Pests can represent a threat to public health and to the environment and can create significant negative impacts for our economy if they are not efficiently controlled.

As many members are aware, pesticides are products that are developed to control, destroy or inhibit the activities of pests. Some pesticide products are available for domestic or home use, while a larger number are available for commercial or restricted uses.

At the same time, pesticides differ from many other substances that enter our environment. They are not byproducts of another process but are intentionally used and released for specific purposes. The biological activity of most pesticides is what makes them valuable to Canadian society, while at the same time it means that the use and release of these products must be carefully regulated and controlled.

There can be risks associated with the use of pesticides. For this reason, pesticides are among the most rigorously tested and regulated substances in the world. In Canada, all pesticides are subject to the federal Pest Control Products Act. Under this act, pesticides must be approved and registered before sale or use in Canada.

It is Health Canada's Pest Management Regulatory Agency, the PMRA, that is responsible for administering this act. For a product to be approved, the health risks, the environmental risks and the value of the product must all be acceptable.

Before a new pesticide is registered, more than 200 scientific studies must be conducted to determine if the pesticide would cause any negative effects on people, animals, birds, insects and plants, as well as the soil and the water.

Detailed studies regulating possible adverse health effects must be carried out by industry, investigating effects that may result from acute, short term or chronic exposures. Studies are required to assess potential long term adverse effects on reproduction, development, the endocrine, nervous and immune systems, and the toxic effects such as cancer. All possible routes of exposure such as ingestion, deposit on the skin and inhalation are examined.

The PMRA requires and evaluates special studies that characterize the unique exposures of infants and children. These studies examine the potential effects of pesticide exposure on the pregnant mother, the fetus and the young child. Studies that consider the unique exposures of children include the minute exposure to residues in breast milk and in fruits and vegetables, as well as exposure through skin contact with treated surfaces while crawling or playing.

These studies are carefully evaluated by the PMRA scientists to ensure that the pesticide does not pose a health concern when used according to the label. Maximum residue limits, or MRLs, are set if pesticides are used on food crops. These limits ensure that the consumption of food, for a lifetime, does not pose a health concern. If the submitted data or any other relevant scientific evidence, including results of epidemiology studies, raise health concerns about the pesticides and its proposed use, the pesticide is not registered.

A similarly rigorous approach is taken to identify and evaluate the environmental risks of a pesticide. Health Canada scientists determine the fate of the pesticide in the environment and whether it will contaminate ground or surface waters such as lakes, streams and rivers. They also identify which species might be vulnerable to pesticides and which species are likely to be exposed under normal use conditions.

Toxicity studies are also required for a range of wildlife, including birds, fish and mammals, as well as beneficial organisms such as earthworms. The pesticide will not be registered if it poses a risk to the environment.

Finally, a pesticide must have value in order to be registered. It must be efficacious and the host or crop that is being protected from the pest must not be harmed by the pesticide. The efficacy studies allow Health Canada to ensure that only the lowest effective rate is allowed, thereby minimizing possible human and environmental exposure.

In 2001, following public consultation, the government implemented a new approach to re-evaluating older pesticides that first were marketed prior to 1995. This is to ensure that they meet modern standards. Health Canada's Pest Management Regulatory Agency has committed to complete the re-evaluation of these older pesticides by 2009.

The new approach to re-evaluation has prioritized work by considering the pesticides used on crops and any identified health or environmental concerns. It makes maximum use of recent re-evaluations completed by other countries, particularly the U.S. This will permit the completion of the re-evaluation of older pesticides as soon as possible to ensure that Canadians' health and that of the Canadian environment continue to be protected.

It is important that everyone recognize that the regulation of pesticides is a shared responsibility with our provincial and territorial colleagues. A strong system of provincial and territorial legislation addresses the sale, transportation, storage, use and disposal of registered pesticides, taking into account provincial and territorial conditions and concerns.

The federal-provincial-territorial committee on pest management and pesticides brings together federal, provincial and territorial pesticide officials to exchange information and expertise and to provide advice and direction to governments on programs, policies and issues related to pesticides. Regulators at all levels work together toward the common goal of protecting Canadians from any risks posed by pesticides.

Health Canada's PMRA has also worked at the international level, actively cooperating with pesticides regulators around the world. Under NAFTA, there is close collaboration with the United States Environmental Protection Agency, also responsible for pesticide regulation. Some of the notable accomplishments include harmonizing data requirements, increased availability of lower risk products, the establishment of worker safety programs and the establishment of integrated pest management programs.

There is also a successful joint scientific review process for pesticides between Health Canada and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. This is a formal process with specific timelines in which the workload is divided between the two countries involved, the reviews of data are exchanged and a peer reviewed and cooperative risk assessment is undertaken, all with the goal of harmonized and simultaneous registration decisions in the two countries.

Canada also participates actively with both NAFTA partners as well as members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development to ensure that standards for pesticides incorporate the latest scientific knowledge.

In closing, I would like to reiterate that we recognize the risks that can be associated with pesticides. This is why Canada's Pest Management Regulatory Agency stringently regulates pesticides in Canada, and we have full confidence in our regulatory system.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, I asked the member who spoke previously to this what he could tell us of Madame Gélinas' scathing report of PMRA's management of pesticides in Canada. I did not get an answer to my question.

I would like to ask the hon. member to tell us what he knows of Madame Gélinas' recent report on the handling of pesticides by Health Canada and PMRA.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned in my report to this place, there are over 200 stringent regulatory tests that occur in order for Health Canada, PMRA and other agencies to ensure the products they approve for use. It must be remembered that they approve these products for use if one uses them according to the label. It is very necessary, and indeed very prudent, for all of us to remind those who are going to use these products that they are approved for use provided one uses them according to the label.

I have every faith that the PMRA, Health Canada and other agencies are working very hard to ensure that these products are the safest possible products that we can possibly use.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Mr. Speaker, I rise with pleasure today to support the amendment to the Pest Control Products Act in order to significantly limit the places where pesticides can be used legally in Canada.

In fact, when we introduced a similar bill in 2002, the purpose was to protect human health and safety, and the environment by regulating products used for the control of pests. The PCPA's primary objective was to prevent unacceptable risks to people in the environment from the use of pest control products. Ancillary objectives included supporting sustainable development to enable the needs of the present to be met without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own.

This bill passed on June 13, 2002, and was given royal assent on December 12, 2002. It was sponsored by the Minister of Health and in fact replaced a 33 year old act first passed in 1969. It controls products commonly called pesticides, but it also encompasses a broad range of products including insecticides, herbicides, fungicides, algaecides, insect repellents, wood preservatives, et cetera.

The development of the PCPA involved collaboration with the Pest Management Regulatory Agency of Health Canada, the Departments of Agriculture and Agri-Food, the Environment, Industry, Natural Resources and Fisheries and Oceans, Canada Food Inspection Agency, and industry stakeholders as well as broad consultations with environmental and health advocacy groups.

The result of their efforts demonstrated the way Canadians approach sustainable development in terms of policy, legislation and regulations. The bill protects human health, biodiversity, air, water and soil. It protects and promotes the interests of our agricultural industry to ensure a safe and abundant food supply at an acceptable cost, and the productivity of our natural forestry endowments by encouraging the move to the development and use of leading edge, sustainable pest management practices.

The preamble of the bill states that the regulation of pesticides is to be pursued through a scientifically-based national registration system that addresses risks to human health and the environment both before and after registration. A new product will be approved or accepted only if there is reasonable certainty that there is no harm to human health, to future generations and to the environment under the conditions under which a pesticide has been approved.

The proposed amendments would strengthen the use of the precautionary principle that refines our views of what constitutes reasonable certainty. The precautionary principle applies in the current version of the PCPA and the principle asserts that a lack of full scientific certainty shall not be used as a reason for postponing cost-effective measures to prevent adverse health impacts or environmental degradation.

Science offers an evolving set of parameters within which we make decisions. Centuries ago our understanding of science allowed us, with reasonable certainty, to believe and act on an opinion, for instance, that the earth was flat. It would appear that some members in the Conservative Party continue to hold that view when it comes to environmental policy and other fairly arcane ideas about sustainable development.

We support the amendments which strengthen the approach in applying the precautionary principle. The amendments strengthen protection against possible exposure from multiple sources including food, water, home and school. By restricting the legal use of pesticides in specific locations, populations including pregnant women, children, farmers and their families would be protected from cumulative risks that would otherwise exist.

Due to their smaller size, diet and play habits, children are indeed more vulnerable to the harmful effects of pesticides than are adults. The existing bill recognizes this special vulnerability of children by calling for the application of an additional tenfold safety margin in evaluating a product's health risks. The amendments, as presented, would expand our protections to those in society most vulnerable to impacts.

The PCPA prohibits pesticides from being imported, sold and used unless they have been registered by the minister. Once registered, their use is carefully controlled. The minister may refuse to maintain an applicant registration where reporting requirements have in fact not been met.

This is an important protection for Canadians and for our agricultural sector as well. It creates the context for a race to the top among our agricultural sector positioning Canada as a leader in sustainable pest management.

Environmental policy can be used to create economic growth and opportunities. To do this, tax credits need to be put in place to attract capital and talent to promote research and development in environmental sciences and create a positive context for the marketing of this sort of technical and technological environment.

It was more than 20 years ago that Harvard professor Michael Porter, in assessing Canada's position in the global marketplace, described a robust regulatory regime for environmental and health protection as “technology forcing”. In fact, it does help when there is multilateral cooperation between governments that not only require consumers and the private sector to develop better long term approaches to the environment, but also help create economic opportunity in doing so.

We have seen evidence of the ingenuity of our Canadian agricultural and forestry sectors to respond to health and environmental challenges with cutting edge pesticide management strategies. The sectors have adopted a “reduced risk” approach to pest management. Our agricultural sector has collaborated with Agriculture and Agri-Foods Canada developing an array of pest management strategies for priority crops and land uses. Some of these strategies create a brand for Canada, a brand in the use among global leaders of integrated sustainable pest management approaches.

Canada could become a world leader in this type of environmental technology, particularly with green technologies, green energy and clean energy, for example. There will be lots of opportunity in agriculture, for example, to develop biodiesel.

Some of these strategies, that the private sector and our agricultural and forestry sectors have developed, are actually breathtaking in their simplicity. In pear and apple orchards, which are an important ingredient in infant and child diets, pesticide use has decreased in favour of mating disruption techniques thus reducing the typically high pesticide load on this horticultural crop and strengthening the organic farming sector which is one of the faster growing sectors within horticulture.

Berry farmers have found the chemical controls for weevils to be ineffective, but the parasitic nematode used in a low temperature tolerance strain of berry has in fact produced results that have increased crop yields.

Canola and potato farmers, whose crops incur a 20% loss due to root maggot and wire worms, are using fungal parasites and meeting their pesticide use reduction goals at the same time.

There are new approaches to tillage to control weeds in oat, flax and wheat fields. This is contributing to new approaches to protecting waterfowl habitat, and soil and microbial damage and erosion.

Using pesticides before crops emerge helps to control weeds, deliver low health and environmental impacts, and reduce overall use of pesticides in the long term.

Cattle ranchers know the blight of the leafy spurge, a non-indigenous species which impacts two million hectares of valuable grazing land and whose sap is toxic to cattle. Chemical treatment of these species is expensive and is inappropriate in terms of being close to water sources in those areas. Canadian farmers are using a biological control, the black spurge beetle, to reduce losses and increase productivity and innovation in their approaches.

By amending the bill and expanding the application of the precautionary principle, PCPA will protect human health and the environment and drive innovation, productivity and competitiveness in the agricultural and forestry sectors.

It is important to recognize that Canadians, not only from a short term health and safety perspective but from a long term environmental and economic sustainability perspective, understand the importance of these measures and in general environmental policy.

There is a lot of support throughout the country for environmental measures, especially in Quebec.

I would now like to talk about greenhouse gases. It is clear to everyone that Canada, as a multilateralist, has a responsibility to honour its commitments to the Kyoto protocol.

In addition, it is clear to everyone that the Conservative government does not support the principles of Kyoto.

It is also important to recognize that we have a huge credibility challenge right now as a country.

Indeed, we are the only country in the world reducing its environmental spending this year.

To be the only country in the world that is in fact reducing environmental investment this year is not the kind of club Canada wants to belong to.

In terms of Kyoto, we have a history as a country where we are respected internationally as a country that keeps its promises and respects its treaties. We have a responsibility to do more. There was a plan implemented by the previous Liberal government and that plan was working. Any plan takes time to have the effect required.

It has been often referred to that there was a growth in greenhouse gas emissions over the last 13 years of about 24%. It is also notable that during that period of time there was a GDP growth economically in Canada of about 45%, largely driven by some of the worst emitters, the fossil fuels petroleum industry. While technologies are evolving rapidly and importantly in those areas to clean energy production from traditional sources, we still have a long way to go.

This is why I think it will be very important for Canada to work with the other international partners to develop innovative technologies to reduce greenhouse gases and to create economic opportunities at the same time. Canada could be a world leader in this area and create opportunities for young Canadians to earn a living. In addition, it will have an impact on industries such as green or clean energy, or alternative energies. There will be many opportunities.

In my opinion, this will be the 21st century's most dynamic sector. So, it is our responsibility as leaders in Canada and the responsibility of the government as well to play a leading role in this area.

It is embarrassing that we now have headlines such as the one in the Toronto Star this morning that the Minister of the Environment “lacks credibility; Rather than embarrass Canada, environment minister should stay away from UN meeting on climate change”.

It is not the right kind of signal to be sending to the international community in terms of Canada's seriousness on these issues, that 300 non-governmental organizations from around the world charge at the meeting that the minister ought to step down from her role as chairperson. In fact, the 300 organizations that signed on to the ECO newsletter said the following:

Avoiding dangerous climate change clearly requires leadership from industrialized countries such as Canada in reducing emissions now and an agreement on deeper reductions for the second commitment period. If you feel, as Chair of these proceedings, that you and your government are not committed to fulfill your obligations under the Kyoto Protocol and that you cannot provide this needed leadership for the future, please, do the honourable thing. Step down.

That was the communication of 300 international non-government organizations in the environmental community directed to the Minister of the Environment on her chairpersonship of the Bonn conference.

It is important, whether in pesticide management or in measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, that we work multilaterally. Greenhouse gas emissions and other pollutants do not stop at borders. It is important that we work multilaterally, with the United States absolutely, but also with our partners through the Kyoto accord. The fact exists that in the U.S. private sector players are now seeking to put together a trading mechanism that can work because their government has not signed on to Kyoto. They recognize the efficacy of a trading system that would enable them not just to be competitive internationally but at the same time to build a cleaner greener planet.

Progress has been made within Canada with our private sector, with our oil and gas sector and in fact with our new energy sector. Wind farms are being built and are operating successfully in places in southern Alberta and also in places within Atlantic Canada. We are seeing the development of biofuels. That is good for the agricultural industry and traditional sectors. It is good for rural Canada. What is exciting about this is that some of the intractable regional and rural development issues and some of the intractable and difficult development issues with aboriginal communities can in fact be addressed through what quite possibly will be the fastest growing area in the 21st century economy and that is new energy and clean energy.

They are not going to be putting wind farms on the corner of Bay and Bloor and they are not going to be developing biofuels on Bay Street either, but the fact is that a lot of these opportunities will provide sustainable economic opportunities to rural Canada, to aboriginal, first nations, Métis and Inuit communities, if we get it right.

To do this, tax credits must be put in place to attract capital, for example. There is a lot of international capital and many investors wanting to invest in this area.

Canada can become the world leader in this area.

It is that kind of vision that can recognize that we can create economic opportunity and it is directly out of environmental responsibility. I think a lot of Canadians in the private and public sectors, and Canadian consumers want to see that kind of leadership. I would urge all members of the House to pursue vigorously and in as non-partisan a way as we can in this quite partisan place, efforts to work together to ensure that Canada fulfills its international commitments but at the same time help create economic opportunities for future generations of Canadians by being environmentally responsible and innovative at the same time.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member mentioned the importance of creating sustainable economic opportunities in Canada. He stated that with respect to the motion at hand there are new approaches, like biological controls and others, that are helping to create economic opportunities in farming. In fact in Victoria, the city that I represent, organic landscaping is one of the fastest growing sectors.

What does the member think of the Conservative members' faith that they seem to want to continue to place strictly in the chemical industry and to maintain the continued use of pesticides for cosmetic purposes?

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Mr. Speaker, first of all there is a role for the responsible use of pesticides. We all recognize that and I think the hon. member does as well.

I would hope that the Conservatives would understand that no one in the House is talking about a complete ban on pesticides. We are saying that as we have more information and more science in these areas, we should be using that science appropriately and responsibly to protect citizens and at the same time, as the member suggests and I agree with her, to create economic opportunities.

The organic farm movement is only part of it, but there have been significant opportunities created in that sector. In fact what has resulted in higher margin activity in terms of traditional agriculture, some of the organic farming has resulted in people are willing to pay more. The margins are better. It creates an agriculture opportunity that is more sustainable in some ways by being innovative and environmentally responsible at the same time. There is a growing demand internationally for these kinds of products as well.

As globalization continues, it is going to be increasingly important for Canada to play a role as a multilateral leader in these areas and work with other jurisdictions, including the United States, toward common approaches in some of these areas, including pesticide use, with both the EU and the United States. I would assert that Canada can play a leadership role in moving toward a greater level of cooperation on the regulatory side such that our farmers are not subject to discriminatory practices through the use of one pesticide or the non-use of another. At the same time internationally all governments, all agriculture sectors in every country should cooperate in a way that citizens are protected and economic opportunity is not limited but is created by this kind of approach.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague's speech was on Kyoto. I had thought this motion was about pesticides but I guess it is not possible to talk about that for 20 minutes.

I thank him for highlighting his government's utter failure to meet our environmental commitments in 13 years, but I would like to get back to the topic at hand, at the risk of staying on topic, and that is pesticides.

I would like to ask the hon. member what his government's approach was to the assessment and evaluation of various pesticides, perhaps the relative success or failure, and what he would recommend going forward in terms of the assessment and evaluation of these products.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Mr. Speaker, in 2002 similar legislation was passed and given royal assent. I almost said rural assent, I guess given the nature of the topic and the nature of my riding. I am very proud to represent my rural Nova Scotia riding of Kings—Hants. Beyond that the legislation required an evaluation period and implementation was to have occurred in 2005. The evaluation within the departments was continuing.

I would urge the government to support the direction of that legislation, to accelerate the testing process, while being reasonable from a scientific perspective, and to implement the legislation fully. It is already there. This motion strengthens it, but the legislation is already there. It received royal assent in 2002 and was to be implemented in 2005. There is still testing going on.

I would urge the government to conclude that testing and to move forward with this from a directional and effective perspective.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I was listening intently to the hon. member when he was discussing in particular the use of alternates to pesticides. I wondered where he was going with some of the other comments near the end of his speech, in particular his conversion from conservatism to so-called liberalism and then his conversion from Kyoto being on the back of a napkin to how wonderful and beautiful and everything around it is now.

Speaking of conversions, I listened intently to some of his statements with regard to alternatives to pesticides. Having used parasitic nematodes in my garden and having looked at alternate plant species, I wonder if he knows from his riding or from his personal experience how effective or sometimes ineffective some of these alternatives are.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Mr. Speaker, first, I welcome the hon. member to the House. He has not been here that long. In my experience as a member of Parliament, I do not have time to grow a garden and I think he will probably find the same thing once he gets settled in. It is a pretty busy life, so he may not be able to further that experience. I certainly do not have personal experience in terms of my gardening prowess. I was elected first in 1997 and I am lucky if I have a chance to buy groceries.

The member mentioned my position on Kyoto and I appreciate that very much. The fact is I have always believed in the science behind climate change and the importance of addressing it. I was opposed to ratification before there was a plan. The Liberal government implemented a plan that was working, so now I am opposed to a Conservative government that is dismantling that plan. In fact, I am always opposed to the lack of a plan when it comes to addressing environmental issues and my position has remained absolutely consistent on this.

I also believe in what is neither a left-wing nor right-wing perspective but just a good idea, that economic opportunity can be created through environmentally sustainable and responsible approaches. The fact is it is not a left-wing idea to attract capital to Canada through tax and regulatory changes that make Canada the best place to develop green technologies. It is not a right-wing idea either. It is a good idea. It is a Liberal idea, in fact.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to see that the Liberal leadership candidate is supporting the NDP initiative, which is long overdue, as I think he and others have acknowledged in the House. I want to ask him whether or not he is able to say with any certainty if other members in his party also support this initiative.

It was not too long ago that the NDP tried to persuade his party, then the government, to make significant changes to the Pest Control Products Act and was unsuccessful. There was huge opposition from the Liberals at the time.

I refer to Bill C-53, which was debated in 2002. The New Democratic Party clearly referenced the fact that the bill missed the mark in terms of controlling, regulating and prohibiting pesticides that were used for cosmetic purposes and were very dangerous on a health basis.

I want to know if the position he has taken today is a change of heart on the part of Liberals. Can he say with any certainty that there will be 100% backing from his caucus for this important initiative?

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Mr. Speaker, today's NDP motion was in fact consistent with the legislation that the Liberal government passed and which was given royal assent in 2002. In 2005 it was scheduled to have been implemented fully. There is still testing and work being done within the departments in that direction. I would urge the Conservatives to conclude those and to move forward.

While it may move further than the initial legislation, because there have in fact been changes in the science around that, it is consistent with the original legislation which was introduced by a Liberal government and presumably supported by the New Democrats.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The member is misleading the House. Bill C-53 did not ban pesticides for cosmetic purposes. He has suggested--

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Bill Blaikie

The hon. member does not have a point of order. She may have something she wants to continue to debate with the hon. member.

Resuming debate. The hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I ask that my colleague from the NDP be patient. I fully agree with her on the substance. The bill that was presented by the Liberal party moves too far away from the spirit of this motion.

That said, I am pleased to speak on this NDP opposition day. This motion, moved by the leader of the NDP, the hon. member for Toronto—Danforth, has just launched an important debate on the entire issue of using and transporting pesticides. Naturally, this is an issue that concerns many Quebeckers and Canadians.

However, when we look at the substance of the motion presented by the party opposite, we realize that it will allow for significant abuse and considerable interference in provincial jurisdictions. It is not that Ottawa does not have a chance to take action in its own jurisdiction. However, by virtue of this shared authority over the environment, the federal government is far from being able to take action involving the banning, transport or use of pesticides.

In the Standing Committee on the Environment and Sustainable Development we had a chance to examine Bill C-53 in 2002. I had a chance to speak in this House about that bill. I took that opportunity to make the point that the federal government does indeed have a responsibility when it comes to pesticides. But this responsibility stops at registering and reassessing pesticides. It is the provinces that are responsible for the transport, sale, use, storage and elimination of pesticides. The provincial governments are also responsible for training and permits, and restrictions regarding the use of pesticides. The municipalities also have a responsibility with respect to the regulations on municipal land only.

Accordingly, this jurisdiction over pesticides is shared among the federal government, which is responsible for their registration and use, the provinces, which are responsible for the transport, use and handling of pesticides and for issuing permits, and the municipalities, which are responsible for regulations, including one category in particular, those having to do with municipal land. The municipalities do indeed have a responsibility, but let us never forget that under our Constitution the municipalities answer to the provinces.

Regarding the substance, I have to say that the motion contains principles we support. First, there is the principle of precaution. We have always believed that this principle had to be included in the PCPA in Canada. Second, this four part motion, this very long motion moved by the NDP, provides that the PCPA should ban certain uses, including in the home and on the land surrounding it and in hospitals and schools as well as on land located nearby.

The substance and the spirit of the NDP's motion are good and commendable. However, it must be recognized that this motion is asking Ottawa to meddle in areas of provincial jurisdiction.

In this regard, I give Quebec as an example. In 1987, it passed legislation on pesticides. We passed this legislation aimed at reducing the use of certain pesticides and at protecting public health and safety.

In 1987, Quebec was proactive and decided to establish its own law.

In 1998, to ensure the law was up to date and responded to public concerns over health and the environment, broad consultations were undertaken in Quebec to revise the legislation. The result was that in 1998 and 2002, in particular, a task force made 15 recommendations in Quebec aimed at better governing the use of our pesticides in Quebec.

So Quebec formulated for itself one of the most innovative laws in the world, by incorporating in the existing legislation a pesticide management code amending section 11 of Quebec's pesticide act. This amendment in fact provided for the ban—sought by the NDP—on the use of pesticides on public land and spaces, be they early childhood centres, schools or hospitals. In 2002, Quebec adopted these amendments to the act in order to protect our children, the public and our seniors from what we consider unwarranted use.

As a result, we modified section 11 of the pesticides act to integrate this pesticide management code. The first part of the code came into force in 2003. The second part of the code just came into force in 2006. The purpose was to ensure that pesticides would not be used in public places.

I would like to mention a few of the elements provided for in the code we adopted: we banned the use of the most toxic pesticides on grassy areas in public, semi-public and municipal greenspaces; we banned the use of nearly all pesticides in and around early childhood centres and elementary and high schools, which is exactly what the NDP motion calls for; we created a specific regulation governing the use of certain pesticides that are still authorized; and we banned certain aerosol treatments inside buildings.

This shows that Quebec has decided to take on its responsibilities in its areas of jurisdiction. I have nothing against the government in Ottawa intervening in the pesticide issue, but it should intervene where things are going wrong.

The use of pesticides is not a problem in Quebec because they have already been banned around early childhood centres and in public spaces. Today, the NDP should have introduced a motion to accelerate the re-evaluation of pesticides currently on the market. In 1999, the NDP should have responded to recommendations made by the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development when she said that pesticides on the market contained many active ingredients that had not been re-evaluated.

What the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development said in 1999 spoke volumes. She said that of the 500 active ingredients in pesticides on the market, 300 were approved before 1989 and another 150 before 1960. This means that there are pesticides that have not been re-evaluated for many years and are therefore still on the market.

Why should we ask the federal government to increase its responsibility for pesticides by banning their use on public lands and in hospitals and schools—which, as far as I know, are provincial responsibilities—when it cannot even do its job in its own jurisdiction?

Action was needed on re-evaluation and registration. In addition, the motion should have proposed faster registration of biological control agents in order to make pesticide alternatives available on the market.

Canada lags far behind the United States in registering biological control agents. Registration is still a federal responsibility.

According to the latest figures I have seen, only 35 biological control agents are sold in Canada, under 150 product names, whereas in the United States, 175 biological control agents are available on the market under 7,000 product names, offering an alternative to pesticides.

We would have liked to pass a motion today asking the federal government to amend the act or take the necessary steps to expedite re-evaluation, starting with pesticides on the market that were approved in 1960 and no longer meet our health protection and environmental protection criteria. I am stressing this because it was one of the main conclusions reached by the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development: some pesticides currently available on the market no longer meet these criteria.

Today, the Bloc Québécois is being asked to vote for a motion that will tell Quebec how to go about prohibiting pesticides in public spaces, when we have had a law in effect since 2006. The motion seeks to impose this on Quebec, when Ottawa is not doing its job. It makes no sense.

Quebec takes an innovative approach to environmental protection. When we passed our first law in 1987, it was not perfect, of course. We can recall the debates we had at the time about pesticides. But whenever possible, Quebec set up a task force or focus group and modernized its laws to prohibit pesticide use on its territory.

Essentially, this motion does not respect the provinces' areas of jurisdiction. It seeks to impose something on Quebec, to open wide the door to interference in provincial jurisdictions. As well, it is important to remember that if Quebeckers had not wanted to bring about better pesticide regulation, we very likely would not be at this point today.

I would remind the House that it was a Parti Québécois government in Quebec that established this pesticide management code, which is considered one of the most innovative. However, Quebec did not stop at simply declaring bans in its pesticide management code. It also decided to train the individuals who handle such substances. It was decided that Quebec workers needed training to handle such products, especially workers who at times must use potentially dangerous substances, even those which do not appear on the list of hazardous materials.

The instructions and codes of practice for these products must be properly followed in order to ensure that our citizens are not overexposed to such substances.

In Quebec, not only did we decide to ban substances that are dangerous to human health in public spaces, but even when such substances are not necessarily banned—not everything can be banned—training was planned for everyone who handles such substances. Thus, we made training a priority in Quebec.

We would add that, in spite of everything—aside from banning—among other things, alternative solutions must be found. Specifically, I am referring to organic farming. As for the particulars of organic farming, we note that European governments have made choices very different from ours. In terms of technology and training, Europe is the recognized leader. Investing in research to promote organic farming is considered value added to a product. If we decide to give technical training to our farmers so that they could move from one form of farming to another, this is not an economic constraint. On the contrary, these products have added value that is increasingly in demand around the world.

We have had the example of Roundup Ready wheat, a genetically modified wheat. Our Asian partners told us that if we approved Roundup Ready wheat they would no longer purchase Canadian wheat. The Canadian Wheat Board had to send a very clear message to the government that, despite its possible alliances with major multinationals such as Monsanto, it would lead to significant losses of market share.

We want our agricultural sector to be increasingly organic, and to use, and desire to use, fewer and fewer pesticides. This should be echoed by our governmental authorities through the development of strict guidelines by the organic agriculture sector at Agriculture Canada. We have waited too long. We in Canada should be ashamed when comparing ourselves to the Europeans, in terms of subsidies, for example.

I just spoke of the investment in training and technology for farmers in European countries. We should also be ashamed of the fact that Canada does nothing to financially assist its organic growers. On the contrary, we have a government and a Canadian Food Inspection Agency that prefer to side with Monsanto to lend genetic material and establish partnerships with major multinationals to develop products that are genetically engineered. And then they try to tell us that the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is an independent agency.

In summary, in terms of registration and re-evaluation, there are significant shortcomings in current federal programs. Ottawa should restrict itself to acting in its areas of jurisdiction by expediting the re-evaluation of products on the market since 1960, and concentrating on the registration of biological control agents. It should not interfere with the provinces, such as Quebec, that have up-to-date legislation and pesticide management codes. This is how we will make headway and protect both the health and the environment of Quebeckers and Canadians.

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, I agree with about 95% of what the member said. I understand why he is proud of what Quebec has done to provide leadership around this issue. My leader, the member for Toronto—Danforth, also began his speech, when he launched this debate today on this very important motion, by expressing his pride in his native town of Hudson. If I may be permitted to also be parochial about it, Halifax, the city that I am proud to represent, is the second city in the country that actually saw fit to take the action that is now put before us for consideration.

I really have a hard time and I am pleading with the member to address what seems to me a fundamental contradiction. He has spoken about the fact that many European countries have done far better than Canada in dealing with lethal pesticides, understanding that these are lethal for people's health and unnecessary because there are alternatives.

The reality is that many European countries have been prodded and pushed because of the leadership of the European Union very often around these issues.

How is it that this member can speak with such pride about the leadership shown by the province of Quebec? Yet he turns his back on the fact that there are children, frail residents, and vulnerable elderly people in other parts of the country who will continue to suffer and pay a price, and be punished because of the failure for us to adopt these kinds of standards on a nation-wide basis.

Is it the case that because this member is a member from Quebec, that has decided to erect firewalls around the progressive measures, that he basically feels no problem at all about completely turning his back on Canadians in other parts of the country that deserve the same kind of important protections that would flow from adopting these measures Canada wide?

Opposition Motion—PesticidesBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Speaker, not at all. The proof of our compassion and solidarity toward seniors rests in the fact that Quebec has adopted a pesticide management code. Yes, this was adopted in Quebec.

I invite my colleague from the NDP to speak to her colleagues from the rest of Canada as well. The reality is that before we can even discuss banning, there are still products that are hazardous to health that we are unable to identify. This identification is the responsibility of the federal government.

Quebec still has problems. Why? Because Ottawa is not doing its job. Even if a province like Quebec wants to impose a strict code on managing pesticides, if we do not have clear identification of the 7,000 products on the market, this province will be incapable since reassessment and registration are not complete. For example, Europe is taking the REACH approach for toxic substances. This approach is a strict model for managing toxic substances.

I am prepared to work with my colleague to ensure that Canada adopts strict registration and reassessment criteria. When Ottawa takes care of its jurisdictions, this has repercussions on Quebec in terms of the application of the pesticide management code. This needs to be taken care of first in order to prevent major legal disputes. I am certain that my colleague would like cooperation and a good partnership in Canada and not a unilateral rule imposed on the provinces when Ottawa is not taking care of its own jurisdiction.