Debates of June 1st, 2006

Opposition Motion—Gasoline Prices

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his question.

It seems to me that the figures in the oil companies' financial and accounting reports clearly demonstrate that they are making staggering profits. If this surtax is imposed on the oil companies, they need only dip into their surplus, their profits. I used the adjective “staggering” but a more accurate word would be “scandalous”. We are talking about billions of dollars.

Furthermore, I believe that the real solution, the long-term solution, lies in reducing our dependency on petroleum and petroleum-based products. I truly believe that each and every one of us must find our own solutions to meet this collective challenge to reduce our dependency on petroleum products.

I mentioned earlier—and I would have liked to expand on it—the tax credit for people who use transit passes that my colleague from Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher had passed in this House. It was such a good idea that the Conservative government took credit for it. This was another Bloc Québécois victory and one more way to reduce our dependency on petroleum products.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to share with the member my concern that we have an industry literally busting at the seams with profits. The profits of the top six oil giants for the first six months of this year will apparently exceed $135 billion and yet the government is handing over billions of dollars in subsidies to this industry.

With the price of gas going up unbelievably fast, we have people in communities, such as seniors, who are trying to pay their fuel for the winter, truckers in the woods hauling logs are trying to pay for the gas to run their trucks, businesses are trying to pay the cost of energy, and we have industries in northern Ontario that are really dependent on energy.

When there is a problem with the price of oil we have the government throwing out some kind of a grant to people to cover the extra cost. That money goes directly into the bank accounts of the oil companies. All we are is a conduit for that to happen.

Is there a possibility that some government somewhere will begin to regulate this industry, to begin to take this industry in hand and say that this is an essential commodity for all of us, whether one is in business, in industry or just an ordinary person trying to heat one's home?

Is the Bloc in support of regulating the oil industry?

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his question.

First, let me say that the oil industry's $135 billion profit comes directly out of every single one of our pockets. We have provided this $135 billion. These profits should be redistributed to the people who provided them. This $135 billion essentially means that the oil companies overcharged us for the value of the product they were selling. I realize a company has to make a profit. It is always very encouraging to hear that companies are doing so. However, these profits have to be reasonable and based on fair compensation. In the matter before us, this is a true diversion of wealth.

The best trick we can play on these oil companies is to reduce our dependence on oil products. My colleague said that this energy was essential; perhaps we could make sure it becomes less and less so.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for sharing her time with me. I am pleased to be back in touch with the people.

As early as 2003, the Bloc Québécois reacted to the regular increases in the price of petroleum products, which usually occurred without good reason or on some trivial pretext.

In response to a February 2003 Bloc Québécois motion that received unanimous support, the Standing Committee on Industry, Sciences and Technology, which had examined the issue, reported in November of the same year that there was a need for a petroleum monitoring agency.

The previous government, which enjoyed a huge majority at the time, rejected that recommendation, even though the committee, which included government caucus members, was unanimously in favour of the idea.

As soon as he became leader of the Liberal Party, the former prime minister—and current member for LaSalle—Émard—granted the oil companies an irresponsible 6% cut in taxes on their profits. A few months later, his finance minister, not wanting to be outdone, gave the oil companies an additional $1 billion to reduce their emissions. And as if that was not enough, the oil sector received $900 million more in assistance in the wake of the government's negotiations with the NDP to obtain their support for the budget.

A person does not have to be a wise economist or an accountant to see all the benefits the oil industry received. Clearly, it only made them more profit-hungry, as excessive as those profits were.

Environmental assistance alone amounted to $2 billion. To that must be added $1 billion in additional net revenue just for the first quarter of 2004. If we add profits from increasing the margin at the refining stage, it becomes indecent.

Given the additional astronomical cost passed on to forestry operators, combined with the softwood lumber crisis and the fact that these operators have to go further and further away to find the resource, every region in Quebec and many regions in Canada have endured countless industry closures and consumer price hikes that could have been avoided.

On February 11, 2005, I personally tabled in this House, on behalf of the Bloc Québécois, a motion that read as follows:

That, in the opinion of the House, the government should take action with regard to gasoline prices by: (a) setting up a petroleum monitoring agency responsible for preparing an annual report on all aspects of the industry, including how prices are set and competition issues, whose director would be independent and appointed for a three-year term after consultation with sector representatives and the Standing Committee on Industry, Natural Resources, Science and Technology, and that the Committee be tasked with considering the report; and (b) by bringing forward amendments to strengthen the Competition Act, including measures to ensure that the Competition Commissioner has the power to launch investigations, summon witnesses and ensure confidentiality.

To the great misfortune of Quebec and Canadian taxpayers, this motion was defeated by just a few votes. Accordingly, the prices peaked during the most active time of the year and the tourist industry hung in the balance. Businesses continue to close because they are no longer competitive internationally and the price of transport has been the main cause of inflation for the past two years.

This lack of leadership has put entire populations in very tough situations since incomes are not indexed to the cost of living. Average workers for example and people earning minimum wage have no choice but to quit their jobs, which deprives many companies of the only employees they can afford. Moreover this becomes an extremely heavy burden on the provincial governments, whose social responsibilities are increasing.

Whatever the Minister of the Environment might present, she would be well served to remove her blinders to see that beyond her home turf there are a great deal of communities where public transit simply does not exist and where the distances are great. These costs cannot be predicted by the worker or the company, which puts all economic sectors in serious difficulty.

Most importantly, let us not forget people where oil products can be shipped only during certain times of year—times when the oil companies choose to inflate their profits and their shareholders’ dividends. Those people have lived with these prices since last summer, and they will certainly be living with them again until the ice melts. I did not understand why the member for Nunavut failed to give her support last summer, but I hope that she will support this motion, which affects her community more than many others.

In fact, in this case, with all the profits being raked in by the oil companies, those companies could certainly afford to cover the cost of shipping to those communities. That would be a much appreciated humanitarian gesture, regardless of the price at the pump in accessible locations. Those communities also have contributed to the economic success of the oil companies.

Who has offered aid to Nunavik, who has offered aid to Nunavut or the Northwest Territories? The government closes its eyes to these entirely inappropriate practices, the oil companies are completely irresponsible and ignore their corporate duties—no one is concerned about the price of a litre of gas, which ranges from $1.49 a litre in places that are not accessible by road, like James Bay, to $1.71 a litre in Nunavik and probably also in Nunavut, which uses the same shipping method.

I was in Nunavik again last week, and since there are no restaurants, we bought the food we needed to cook for ourselves. Do you know that in Ivujivik, for a meal of two sirloin steaks, very ordinary side dishes and a head of lettuce that we were able to salvage two leaves from, we had to spend $189? The lettuce was $6.79. What we threw out was not edible. We did not waste anything.

Like any other resource, gas should be available to the public at a price that would allow the industry to make reasonable profits. It is a resource for which the exploration and development costs have been financed, in large part, by the taxes paid by all Quebecers and Canadians on their incomes and the goods and services they buy, for the benefit of the public and of businesses in Quebec and Canada.

We need only look at the prices charged by Hydro-Québec for exports. They are very low compared to oil. And yet Quebecers have paid for the research and development put into that energy by themselves. It is this model of cooperation that probably, with due respect to all parties, could have cemented Canadian confederation.

Oil prices have a huge impact on administrative costs for the public at large, for small and large businesses, for agencies that provide services on a profit-making or non-profit basis, for governments from municipal to federal, for taxi, truck, ship and airline operators. So a responsible government must, therefore, first ensure that competition exists and then ensure it is fair and gives consideration to all intervenors, as it is a natural resource, part of the country's heritage.

Odd as it may seem, all sectors supplied by ship are also supplied with electricity by generators and all the buildings are heated with oil, which is over 70¢ a litre at the moment. This does not include transportation costs. They could drive the cost up to 80¢ a litre at destination.

The Bloc Québécois is of the opinion that part, at least, of the cost of gasoline and other petroleum products can be monitored, by, for example, ensuring that no intermediary takes advantage of its position or circumstances. At such a price, many more families, people living on their own whether young or old, will not be able to heat their homes properly next winter.

For these reasons, in all simplicity, I invite the members of this Parliament to establish a monitoring agency do a fair, impartial and equitable verification with all the powers it needs to fulfill its mandate, as recommended by this motion.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I listened to some of the members speaking this morning there has been a consistent theme with respect to the issue of supply and demand, and the rather wholesale assailment on the virtues of profit.

On the issue of supply and demand, we all know that the price of gasoline is, for the most part, governed by the commodity trading of oil, which is a world commodity and impacted by numerous world events and pressures. It seems to me that, while we need to be concerned about that and its impact on our economy, there is also a tremendous risk in bringing some interventions to bear to somewhat control that. There is a volume of information that suggests this creates other impacts that could prove to be very much a disadvantage to the economy.

I wonder if the member opposite could perhaps expand on this theme. Has he considered what the downside of this type of regulation might be on the price of gasoline?

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind my colleague from Simcoe North that our neighbours to the south, in particular, pay less than we do for their oil even though Canada is the main oil supplier to the United States. Moreover, 44% of share investments are controlled by the Americans while 53% of profits come from the American side.

We have a Canadian industry. Recently, we had the example of the softwood lumber industry where we saw how the Americans protect their industry. There is a huge difference between that and the kind of protection we give our oil industry. I think Canadians should start tightening their belts if they do not want to lose their pants.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my friend, the member for Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, on his excellent speech. Knowing that my colleague comes from the construction industry and the labour movement, I want to ask a question and make the following comments.

I also come from the construction industry. We know that petroleum-based products such as monomers are used to make PVC, credit cards and all plastic materials.

We have a problem and it also affects all manufacturers of piping for water supply and sewage systems. I am thinking about Royal Plastics and IPEX. These are Canadian manufacturers who are no longer able to manage their work or their production because they do not know from one day to the next what the price of the raw material will be—raw material they need to produce piping made of PVC, CPVC, Carnar, etc. for water supply systems, sewer systems, electrical systems and industrial plumbing.

What impact does the volatility of commodity prices, which keep changing every day, have on the construction industry?

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. I would also like to respond to the hon. member who posed a question earlier about the impact of this motion on future energy costs.

It is clear that oil prices, which are very volatile at the moment, are causing some instability in the markets and making it difficult for businesses to budget. Several businesses are having a hard time.

This is why the Bloc included not only the idea of monitoring, but also a petroleum monitoring agency in its motion. We must plan for the future, understand why prices are so volatile, and protect taxpayers and businesses.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Calgary East.

Every hon. member knows that rising energy prices have impacts on Canadian consumers and our entire economy. We have all heard the same feedback from our constituents and we are all concerned. For all the easy comments from the opposition in the House that say otherwise and despite the motion that has been brought forward by the hon. member for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, it is clear that the government is paying close attention to this issue.

The government addresses rising energy prices and the effects they are having on Canadian consumers in ways that makes sense, ways that are practical and that respect the laws of supply and demand. We want to take actions that will produce results that will matter and not be lost in the normal ebb and flow of prices. We need to get this right.

There should be no confusion as to whether the government recognizes that this is a serious issue. We hear the concerns of individual consumers, consumer groups and business groups. Organizations such as the Consumers' Association of Canada and Option consommateurs have been very clear in pointing out the range of ways that rising energy costs affect consumers.

Gasoline and diesel fuel prices for transportation have risen dramatically. So has oil and natural gas that heats the homes of most Canadians. Higher costs are being worked into other prices such as food that has to be shipped long distances or electricity generated from natural gas powered systems.

Rising energy costs translate into impacts that people cannot just shrug off and pay, not if they live in rural or remote areas or need to drive considerable distances for daily needs, not if they live on a low or fixed income and cannot cover added costs, and not if they are truckers or farmers who must face higher energy costs to make a living.

We have all heard many stories, but we can rely on more than anecdotes to get a sense of what consumers in Canada face. In fact, Statistics Canada has a lot of hard data that is worth drawing on and most usefully Industry Canada's Office of Consumer Affairs has added to our understanding with its Consumer Trends Report.

This information is important because it is the kind of evidence that will help governments to make decisions that take into account the consumer point of view. This data tells us first and foremost that consumers need help in making wise choices in the marketplace in a period of high energy prices.

This government is listening. It is giving Canadian consumers the tools they need to cope effectively in an often confusing energy marketplace. For example, the Competition Bureau has issued a very useful consumer fact sheet on gasoline prices. The Office of Petroleum Price Information allows consumers access to currently weekly consumer prices for gas in 60 Canadian cities, plus the average Canada pump price.

Natural Resources Canada Office of Energy Efficiency has a program called the personal vehicles initiative which provides Canadian motorists with helpful tips on buying, driving and maintaining their vehicles to reduce fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing fuel consumption means saving money and more, it means helping the environment. All of this great information, for and about consumers, is available over the Internet.

Moreover, the government knows that it is not sufficient in itself to simply help consumers to manage the marketplace's current high prices. Demand seems to be on a more or less continuous upward curve. According to the National Post, Ontario has just experienced the hottest May 30th on record, an event that sparked record energy demand. According to Environment Canada, as reported on CBC Radio, we can expect a more than ordinarily hot and humid summer this year and if this prediction comes to pass energy demand will certainly increase.

These are all factors behind the government's determination to take effective action to address energy issues. This government is aggressively supporting the use of ethanol from crops such as corn, straw and other forms of cellulose. Ethanol produced in this way and added to gasoline makes a practical contribution to reducing our dependence on conventional petroleum reserves, the cost of which can rise in the future. As the hon. Minister of the Environment announced, the government has committed to implementing a 5% biofuel content standard as a national strategy for Canada by 2010.

From an overall policy framework, the government is making a very significant investment in cleaner public transportation. We have made investments in transit passes to ensure people get out of their cars and into public transportation. For those people who need to drive cars, we want to ensure that they are burning cleaner gasoline so that they themselves reduce emissions.

The government is addressing the needs of consumers by giving them the tools to help them adapt in a marketplace where prices are rising and by encouraging the private sector to help reduce our dependence on evermore costly sources of energy derived from petroleum.

What is the opposition solution? The motion before the House states that we should increase taxes on oil companies, create a petroleum monitoring agency and “strengthen the Competition Act”. Easy solutions, are they not? Let us take a closer look at a couple of them.

As one hon. member has said, taxing the oil companies and adding to their costs will have little or no effect on the price at the pump. As for the price of gasoline, I would maintain that the best guarantee of the lowest prices possible is an efficient and competitive marketplace driven by the laws of supply and demand.

As for strengthening the Competition Act, this is yet another red herring. The Competition Bureau has, as of now, conducted six investigations of gasoline pricing, including one carried out in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina and called for by the previous government. None found any evidence of conspiracy to fix gasoline prices.

According to the Competition Bureau, gasoline prices in Canada and American markets are highly correlated and reflect the integrated nature of the world's petroleum market. Remember that high prices and profits are not contrary to the Competition Act. That is very important. When there is a problem, the Competition Bureau strictly enforces the law, as it has done eight times since 1972.

Rather than adopt a hastily and ill-considered motion before us, the more sensible approach is to help consumers use less fuel, in the short term by assisting them in finding more efficient ways to use energy, and in the medium term by developing alternatives that will allow consumers to become less dependent on an energy resource whose cost is only going to increase in the coming years.

The motion before the House would advance none of these goals. The government stands for a sensible approach to energy issues, a forward looking approach that will bring real and long lasting benefits to consumers by dealing realistically with a problem that will be with us for many years to come.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Oshawa recognizes the question of consumption and just how much of an effort the company in his riding is making toward energy efficiency in the automobile industry.

However, it does not really matter how much energy efficiency we are talking about. The hon. member seems content to view the status quo as acceptable. We on this side do not believe that. I think the hon. member would be hard pressed to point out that many of his own constituents, who I have dealt with over the years, do not like the status quo either.

There is wide evidence, including the Competition Bureau itself, that the bureau believed that there was a need for changes in the Competition Act, particularly as it deals with pricing provisions. That is why it supported Bill C-19 proposed by the government in 2004.

I do not want to keep doing this in terms of a lesson to the hon. members, certainly the newer members in the Conservative Party, but one of the reasons Canadians will never find a Competition Bureau that can actually find conspiracy or price fixing is not because of the structure of the market being highly concentrated but because the test required in the Competition Act is really set up in such a way that we will never be able to determine whether or not there has been anti-competitive activity, and not because it is a criminal burden but because the threshold of determination has to pass something called the undue test and be discussed in the House of Commons.

When the hon. member is referring to changes to the Competition Act, he only has to look at the recommendations of his own committee. Could the hon. member tell the House if he is prepared to live up to the former recommendations of the committee and recognize that the Competition Act, written by the oil industry in many respects, does need to be finished and would he square that with the position taken by the Competition Bureau itself only a year ago?

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. neighbour for all the work that he has done on this issue over the last 13 or 14 years. He has been a very strong advocate, I must add, in all the work that he has done in looking at the cost of gasoline and how it is affecting consumers.

I want him to know something. For the members of the Conservative government the status quo is not acceptable. That is why in the last budget we actually cut the GST from 7% to 6% and it will go down to 5%. This 1% tax cut will save Canadians $220 million per year in fuel costs.

There is one thing I find a little puzzling, though. The member was part of the Liberal government that was in power for so many years, which actually did not take any action to decrease the price of gasoline. We are not in favour of an added surtax. We think it is about reducing taxes and allowing consumers better prices.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to my colleague's speech with interest. I would like to quote, for his benefit, Konrad von Finckenstein, former Commissioner of Competition, who appeared before the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology on May 5, 2003:

—while the Bureau's mandate includes the very important role of being an investigator and advocate for competition, the current legislation does not provide the Bureau with the authority to conduct an industry study.

I think it would be better for an overall examination of the situation to be conducted by an independent body with the authority to summon witnesses and gather information while protecting confidential information that no one wishes disclosed but that would be essential to a factual conclusion.

That was what the former competition commissioner said. Last fall, the current commissioner testified before the committee that the Competition Act must be strengthened and that the issue of a petroleum monitoring agency should be pursued.

Not one, but two competition commissioners have told us that the current legislation did not give them the authority or the mandate they needed to conduct a real study of the market. That said, does my colleague think that the status quo is acceptable? It seems clear to me that we are not making progress, which is bad for oil companies, consumers and all industries, especially the manufacturing sector.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, the status quo is not acceptable to the Conservative government. We are working toward decreasing taxes. We believe that is the way to help consumers. We do not believe in taking a divisive approach such as the Bloc is doing today, trying to pit one part of the country against another by adding these huge surtaxes. That is not the route to go.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is indeed an honour for me to rise to speak to the motion put forward by the Bloc in reference to oil prices and specifically, oil companies.

As I come from Alberta, it is quite important to me as to what happens to this industry. As I read the motion, I was quite surprised to find that it seemed to be playing to the fears of Canadians, a fear that high oil prices and pump prices would have a major impact. There is no question in anybody's mind that high gasoline and oil prices do have impacts on other sectors of the economy.

The former speaker from the Bloc talked about being in the construction industry and the impacts it would have on other industries. There absolutely will be impacts on other industries. Why would there not be? It is not only with oil prices, but any commodity prices that increase have impacts on other sectors of the economy. However, this is a band-aid solution to the situation. Applying it will hurt the economy in the longer term more than help it.

When we look at these things, as a responsible government, we want to look at long term solutions, not just the fact that because the rising economies of Asia and other emerging markets are demanding oil, the price of crude oil has gone up and therefore it reflects on the market and on the pumps. To propose a band-aid solution to this will not work.

The government has come up with a lot of approaches in the budget to address the whole economy of the country, such as lower taxes for businesses and individuals, which will put more money back into the pockets of Canadians.

This year I bought a new car. The first thing I looked at was what kind of gas mileage I would get from the car. I did not look at what the gas prices were at the time. I looked into the future to ensure that the car I bought reflected the oil prices because it would reflect on my pocket. The responsibility of taking these kinds of actions is mine, as it is for every consumer. It is not like we can play around with the market and create a situation which has devastating impacts.

I remember when the national energy policy was introduced by the Liberal government in Alberta. I was in Calgary and heard what the economy of the oil companies was. It was devastating. A person could walk in and buy a house for a dollar. People were dumping their houses. Their life savings were wiped out.

We cannot just come out say that we should put a surtax on oil companies. As the Parliamentary Secretary for the Minister of Industry said, what does a surtax on an oil company have to do with the oil prices? Bloc members say they want to tax the profits. There has to be a coalition over there.

Let us for a minute think about what is happening in Venezuela. The new president is playing with its oil heritage. He has the lowest prices of gasoline in the world. He says it is other resources and so he wants it at cheap prices. Guess what? He is playing with the money of future generations to benefit today's generation. That is the criticism. He is not benefiting from world prices that will help build the economy. The country is not only built on oil prices. There has to be investment in education, health and infrastructure to create a competitive environment that is beneficial to everybody, not just to one sector.

To do that, we create a business environment. We tax the oil companies as is necessary and we ensure they are in a competitive sector. The revenue derived by the government is what it reinvests into the infrastructure and everything else to create that economy.

I am very pleased that this is what has happened in Alberta. The revenues that come in benefit everyone in Canada, including Quebec, because Alberta then pays into the equalization formula. We talk about fiscal imbalance. We need to ensure there is a level standard of living throughout Canada. If one sector is doing well temporarily, that is fine. However, again I want to remind the House what happened in 1981 in Alberta because of high oil prices. Albertans, including myself, lost our life savings because of irresponsible government economic policy. We want to ensure that does not happen today.

The government has said that we will create an environment that is beneficial to all Canadians. The budget talked about tax cuts for individuals and businesses, including small businesses, as well as a reduction of GST.

About a month ago a report came out. According to the report, there was a slight dip in consumption of oil in the North American market. That is exactly what we need to do. We do not need to put a heavy emphasis on the oil sector alone. As the Minister of the Environment has indicated, we are looking at other sources. We need to reduce the demand on oil. That is the right approach. This is what we should do as part of our educational issues.

Is there going to be an immediate change in the price of oil? No. As I said, the Asian economy is now rising. Today we see both China and India in the market looking to buy resources, including oil companies, to feed their growing economies. This puts pressure on the commodity market.

It is quite interesting that with China's rising need for resources, it is buying its resources from Canada. Canada being the richest resource country in the world, naturally our economy is doing well. They will not talk about those sectors because that is the sector that benefits only them.

We need to get out of the situation of looking at what only benefits one province. What benefits Canada as a whole is the approach members of the House of Commons should take.

Therefore, the motion is quite contradictory and it will, from my point of view, create a situation where its long term damage would be quite devastating.

The motion talks about the Competition Act. The Liberals were in power for almost 13 years. Now Liberals get up and talk about the Competition Act. Where were they? Why did they not bring anything forward, if they felt the Competition Act required strengthening? It is obvious that they did not have any desire to do it, and one would wonder why.

From my point of view, the motion is playing to the fears of Canadians, but that is not the right approach to take. The government has indicated, with its priorities and budget, the right way to go to ensure that Canada remains the number one country in the world.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I must say that I am dumbfounded, although not surprised, by the comments of my colleague opposite. It seems to me that he has no demonstrable concern for ordinary citizens. I will have the opportunity to speak of this in a few minutes.

The question I would like to ask him concerns a study prepared not by the Bloc Québécois or the government but rather by the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers. The producers estimated the impact, over a three year period, of tax giveaways to petroleum companies. They estimated that federal tax paid by oil and gas companies will fall from $5.148 billion in 2005 to $2.3 billion in 2008.

Does my colleague opposite not think that it is time to act when companies that make such record and astronomical profits are being favoured? They themselves inform us of forecasts that must bring a smile to their faces every day.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, the motion plays to the fears of Canadians. I am quite stunned when she says that I have no regard for ordinary Canadians. I am also an ordinary Canadian.

I said in my speech that when I shopped for a car, I looked for a long term objective to ensure that I used less gas and did my part. There is no point in her argument.

She made reference to the issue of record oil company profits. Not only are the oil companies making a profit because of high commodity prices, other companies are making a profit as well. However, oil companies are being taxed. They contribute their share in taxes. Also, the oil companies are employing thousands of productive Canadians across the country.

I come from a city that has the headquarters of oil companies. I see their involvement in the arts and various other sectors of our communities. I do not buy the argument of the hon. member.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a couple of areas of concern with the motion. I also am a little more comfortable with a couple of areas of the motion.

The creation of a monitoring agency, the strengthening of the Competition Act and variations thereof are areas which I believe need improvement, particularly the independence of that.

The one point I find absolutely disturbing is the surtax on the profits of major oil companies. I look at the aerospace industry, for example Bombardier, which has had enormously good times. Should we automatically put a surtax on it? Should we put a surtax on the automotive industry when it goes through a good period? Should we put a surtax on our banking and financial industry? Should we put a surtax on our insurance industry? Should we put a surtax on our pharmaceutical industries?

Where do we all of a sudden draw the line and say that is the bogeyman? I do not think that is right. It is wrong to even suggest that we should start to be playing assassin, basically cutting the hand that feeds by killing the golden goose. It does not make any sense.

Should there be restrictions? Should there be levels of control? Absolutely. However, to take away from the incentive and the profitability and attack one particular industry sets a bad example of how a country's industry should be run. Could the member comment on that?

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I do not understand the rationale of a surtax on the oil companies because of the high prices of oil and gasoline. The motion speaks to that.

Nevertheless, I mentioned that we are taxing industries across the country, whether it is the oil industry or any other industry. Because the oil industry does not impact Quebec, that is perhaps why the Bloc has put forward the motion. To the Bloc members, it is the whole idea of grabbing the resources out there. Albertans feel they want to grab their resources.

However, the government accepts and gives its responsibility to Canada. We do not have a problem standing behind the equalization formula. Royalties, according to the Constitution, belong to the provinces and not to the federal government. Therefore, as one of my colleagues rightly pointed out, this is only one industry. It does not impact the Bloc members and their province and it is irresponsible behaviour on their part.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would first like to inform you that I will be splitting the time allotted to me with my colleague from Shefford.

On this Bloc Québécois opposition day on the subject of the price of gas, I wanted to speak on behalf of the people I represent. I know that this subject is of enormous importance to them and a matter of great concern to them, that they are expecting tangible action to be taken to counteract the negative and pernicious effects of repeated increases in the price of gas.

These negative effects are obviously felt by all members of the public. Nonetheless, I want to point out, more particularly, the impact that they have in the regions. As I often say and I will never stop saying, everything that has an impact on the important issue of land occupation is crucial to our regions and the people who live there.

The perverse effects of repeated and often staggering increases in the price of gas are felt by individuals, working people, farmers, people who work in the forestry industry, truck drivers, shipping companies and businesses, and, because we in the regions often depend on the tourism industry, this affects tourism. Let us look at these aspects one by one.

In the regions, individuals feel the effects of the increases directly, because they very often depend on oil as a source of energy and they have no choice but to travel by car, because they do not have access to public transit. They use their cars for all of what we call local travel, essential travel. They have to drive long distances to get to work, to go about their business, to look after their families. It is very important to keep this in mind.

I might even add, as an ironic aside, that they often have to travel 15 or 20 minutes by car, in rural areas, to buy a stamp or mail a letter, now that Canada Post has closed its points of service. I have no desire to be ironic, however; the subject is too serious.

Working men and women who already have more than their share of insecurity are losing a significant percentage of their purchasing power, of their incomes, very often coming from the benefits they receive in lieu of income, because of the costs that they are unable to avoid: the cost of gas and the cost of energy derived from oil.

Farmers, and everyone who works in the forestry industry, depend on gas for their farm machinery and their infrastructure, as well as for their equipment; their expenses are climbing, and so their already slim profits are declining before their eyes.

And what about taxi drivers, truck drivers and shipping companies, who have to either pass the cost on to their customers or watch as their profit margins evaporate into thin air?

When it comes to tourism, we know that a number of regions, including the Lower St. Lawrence and my riding in particular, depend on this economic niche for a substantial segment of their economy. Tourists, whether from Canada, Quebec or the United States, travel mainly by car to get where they are going or to drive across our countryside, as pleasant as it is enormous to discover and rediscover.

What I have described in these few words are common and well-known facts of life. They call on us to give serious consideration to measures that can be taken, to a plan, to a strategy to counteract the negative effects of gas prices and repeated increases in those prices.

With the summer season about to start, some people are rightly concerned and anxious about the next gas price hikes. They know, because they have seen it happen over and over in the past, what the consequences of this scenario are, and they are afraid that the desired and desirable economic benefits will be wiped out.

Now, during the time I have left, let us look at what the Bloc Québécois is asking the Conservative government to do. We are asking for an increase in the current surtax on the corporate tax on major oil company profits only, the creation of a petroleum monitoring agency and the strengthening of the Competition Act.

The surtax on major company profits will generate roughly $500 million in additional revenue for the government, which can be reinvested in programs to help reduce Canadians' dependence on oil.

We do not want to do this for no reason, we want to do it with a vision. That is what we are asking the current government. For example, we want to promote the manufacture and purchase of more energy-efficient vehicles. We must not forget that the five big oil companies in Canada—Imperial Oil, Shell Canada, Husky Energy, Petro-Canada and Suncor Energy—had net profits of $9.65 billion last year. As I mentioned earlier, this represents an increase of $2.45 billion over 2004 and $3.08 billion over 2003. We are talking about a profit 46.9% higher than in 2003. The numbers speak for themselves.

Better still, the current government does not seem to feel that the poor oil companies have enough because it plans to give them other tax gifts. The Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers has projected the value of all these gifts over three years. The result is a 54% tax cut between 2005 and 2008. What could be better?

Another portion of the revenue from this surtax could subsidize renewable energy producers. Think of wind energy, for example. Quebec has huge potential as a producer of wind energy, which is extremely cost-effective and very clean and uses a resource—wind—that is renewable and costs nothing.

Let us be clear: the revenue from increasing the current surtax must be reinvested immediately and not simply added to the current or expected surplus.

With respect to the creation of a real petroleum monitoring agency, this agency would be responsible for overseeing the industry by collecting and disseminating price data on refined petroleum products, among other things, for all relevant North American markets, and reporting on the competitive aspects.

This agency would have the power to summon witnesses, protect their confidentiality, examine every aspect of the oil industry and offer solutions.

In connection with the establishment of that agency, even the president of the Canadian Petroleum Products Institute, which represents 80% of Canada's refining capacity, made the following statement on May 7, 2004:

The members of the petroleum industry support the Committee's assertion that an independent monitoring agency could help resolve public confusion and misconceptions on gasoline pricing issues.

The Bloc's third request concerns the Competition Act. The commissioner still has no power to initiate inquiries into suspicious fluctuations. It should be noted that this shortcoming has already been denounced by a former competition commissioner. This must be corrected immediately, so that the powers of the commissioner are strengthened.

In its report on the Competition Act, the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology recommended a reversal of the burden of the proof to deal with agreements among competitors and to determine whether there is a conspiracy.

To conclude, these requests by the Bloc Québécois have the advantage of being as realistic as they are easy to implement quickly. It is a matter of really wanting to act. The Conservatives' motto is change. Here is a change for the Conservative government to implement, if it is serious about wanting to be fair and acting on its so-called concern for the public, because this affects the interest of our fellow citizens. Taking the public interest into consideration means showing genuine concern for the future, which inexorably involves showing concern for the environment.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. In return, I would like to give her some statistics.

The oil and gas industry in Canada is the largest, single private sector investor in Canada. If we want to talk about reinvesting profits to good use, the industry is reinvesting $41 billion in Canada in 2006. In 2005 it paid $27 billion to governments which allowed governments like ours to reinvest in alternate fuels and advanced technologies that will help the energy situation and help the environment.

Would my hon. colleague give some consideration to what the oil and gas industry does today for Canada without proposing surtaxes that would take away their ability to do that?

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

The member who spoke before me talked about the involvement of the oil industry in the arts and other sectors. I have no doubt that this industry, as any other, plays its corporate role, as it should, if I may say so.

What we are talking about here and what the Bloc Québécois is calling for is a small surtax—because, in the end, the surtax is not substantial—so we can move away from a non-renewable, polluting energy source. My colleagues opposite may very well say that they no longer want to be part of Kyoto, but people know full well what is at stake when we talk about non-renewable, polluting energy sources. The Bloc Québécois wants this surtax to be a useful environmental tool that will benefit all Canadians.

My colleague opposite knows perfectly well that the tax rate for oil companies is lower in Canada than it is in Texas. While some may say that these companies play their role and should not pay more tax, the Bloc Québécois believes in the distribution of wealth so that the entire population can benefit from it.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague on her presentation. Distributing the wealth in order to help all Canadians and all Quebeckers is a concern for all members of the Bloc Québécois.

The Conservative position still seems to be somewhat at odds with our position when it comes to imposing a surtax on the petroleum industry or establishing a better environmental policy with respect to Kyoto. They still seem to want to protect the petroleum industry.

I have a question for my colleague. How does she see this position that seems to persist within the Conservative Party and seems to differ from the position presented to Quebeckers during the election campaign, when the Conservative Party said it was open to support for average Canadians and the underprivileged? We now see that they are here to defend the Alberta petroleum industry at the expense of the rest of the population.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his question.

Obviously, we will see that in time. We will see what Quebeckers and Canadians decide in terms of this government's re-election.

In Quebec, we have good reason to be concerned. The rest of the country has good reason to be concerned. We have a government that just reneged on commitments previously made in this country concerning the environment.

The Minister of the Environment regularly tells us that Canada will have a new plan and will find other ways to protect the environment. Once again, we are suggesting one such way.

We will see how seriously the Conservatives intend to consider concrete measures to distribute wealth and to help citizens while respecting the environment.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to rise today on the subject of the price of gasoline. In my riding and probably all around Quebec, people are starting to feel fed up and even disgusted when they see the price of gas going up to $1.08 or $1.18 a litre. That is unthinkable for working people and young families earning the minimum wage. It has become a luxury just to drive to the service station and fill up. When it costs $50, $60 or $70 to fill the gas tank and a person’s gross wages are $200, it takes almost half his earnings. It is crazy.

If my colleagues are not hearing that in their ridings, there must be a slight problem. The same problem exists in industry, which is facing serious difficulties. Most industries heat with fuel oil, which has risen 10¢ a litre. In industry, that ends up making a difference in the profits. When there is a difference in the profits, two groups of people are likely to suffer, and it sure is not the industry itself. Either the problem is shifted onto the workers, whose wages are cut to help the company deal with the price of oil, or else the consumer pays. In both cases, we are the losers, and it is because of the increase in the price of oil.

There is no desire on the part of the members of this House, especially the Conservatives, to counteract this increase. With competition, there should be some ideas for a solution. We heard some all morning long. They are the best, because no one in this House, with the exception of the Bloc Québécois, had any ideas for counteracting the increase in gas prices. Competition is one thing, but if the government supports the world price of crude, we are also colluding because we support this price.

In the Alberta oil sands, the price is now about $13 a barrel. Albertans rely on the world price. It pays. By selling a barrel at the world price of $73, they can make about a $60 profit on every barrel. That is why no one is revolting against the oil companies: they are making money.

There should be a tax, a surtax for these oil companies, since they make so much money on top of all the presents we give them. Two hundred and fifty million dollars is no trifle. That is what every oil company got last year.

Has the government thought about the young families who find out the government has granted a tax rebate of $250 million? It makes no sense. The people in my riding are incensed about paying $1.08 to $1.18 a litre, when the oil companies are making billions of dollars in profits and when, on top of that, the oil companies each get a little gift of $250 million. They claim these gifts are necessary and that the oil companies will reinvest the money in Canada. That is not how it works. The oil companies are quite capable of doing development where they come from, and they do not need us to do it. With their $10 billion, $15 billion or $20 billion, I do not think they need another $250 million from us.

If there is still too much money, if there are billions of dollars extra, we know where to invest that $250 million. We proposed solutions all morning.

This money could be invested in EnerGuide, a program taken away from the public. We must suppose that the government did not think it was all that good. Still, we think it is good. In fact, this program can be a good deal for people who take advantage of it and save money.

I am going to tell you how much you can save with EnerGuide. The Conservatives forgot about that. EnerGuide makes it possible to save a lot of energy. Owners taking part in the program reduce their energy bills by about 30%. That is not negligible, it amounts to $750, or about $18,750 over a period of 25 years.

EnerGuide is also an effective means of reducing greenhouse gas emissions at a cost of less than $100 a tonne. We know what the consequences of pollution are. And we know that the oil companies are the biggest polluters in Canada.

But the government does not take that into account. Albertans are so nice. They have oil. They make profits. All that time, the government does nothing and just watches the boat go by. It says it wants to try and find a plan to reduce greenhouse gases, but I think the greater part of this plan already exists.

The oil companies are the biggest polluters that exist in Canada. What is the government doing for the people in the rest of Canada against these polluters? Absolutely nothing. It leaves them alone, saying that the industry must be left to develop.

The industry must not develop in just any old way or at any cost. If public health is harmed, the situation is not much better, the problem is diverted. And then, we hear there is a pollution problem that has to be dealt with. We have a double standard.

I understand that the government is in a spot. I understand that it wants to do nothing. I understand that it does not want people to steal oil. We do not want oil. We have electricity. That is clean energy. That is what it should be considering: how to go about getting renewable energy and clean energy. I do not think that it has considered this. Its only thought is to help out the oil companies. How wonderful. A few gifts here, a few gifts there, and there you go. But the lowly consumer gets no gifts and no benefits.

The modest worker gets no tax cuts. I am not sure that the little income tax cut and the little 1% GST cut will permit small families to buy a car. I heard the government exulting: with a 1% reduction, taxpayers will be able to buy themselves a car! Does it really believe that? If you are buying a $20,000 car, this 1% reduction amounts to $200. Does the government really believe that a family with an average income of $40,000 will be buying a $20,000 to $25,000 vehicle tomorrow morning thanks to a 1% cut in the GST? Come on! That is absurd.

The price of gas is nothing to laugh at. Today the price of a barrel, as I was saying earlier, is hovering around $73. At the pump, that means an average increase of about 37¢ per litre between 2002 and today. If we had pay raises equivalent to the increases in the price of oil, everyone would be happy. There would not be a single worker complaining.

It goes so fast. Here, all that we have for workers are wage freezes, wage cuts to be able to compete with other countries. And when the government has the chance to help the people, it lets it go by.

The best example is this one.

The government had a golden opportunity to introduce a surtax on the import of these bikes. But this is not a surtax. I am told its purpose is to help out consumers. We would have had this for only three years, not for a lifetime. It was a temporary three-year measure. After that, retailers would have been free to do as they wished.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Etobicoke North.

As a member of Parliament coming from British Columbia, no region of this country is more concerned about the fluctuation of gas prices than our region. Last week there was more than a 20¢ price difference in a litre of gas in British Columbia than a litre in Ontario.

People involved in the trucking industry, the taxi industry, in a small business, such as a plumber, electrician or tradesperson, or in a business that relies on the imports and exports along the Pacific Rim trading corridor, as many in my riding do, gas prices are a huge issue for them and an issue that we should look into with some real diligence.

We need to look behind the rhetoric approach of the Bloc and the NDP about big government solutions which they know will not work. We need to know why they would rather get into bed with the do nothing government time and again than provide a real pragmatic solution for all Canadians.

The big problem with this motion is the surtax. I must say that it is a huge surprise coming from the Bloc because, if any party should know, the Bloc should know that the regulating of gas prices comes under provincial jurisdictions. I would simply say that the opposition cannot have it both ways. Members cannot jump up and down and then accuse the federal government of meddling in issues of provincial concern but then look to Ottawa to solve the problems when the province is clearly doing nothing.

For a province that is not exactly dependent on oil revenues, it is easy to ask for surtaxes on the gas companies, but how do we ensure the surtax is not passed on to the consumer, which would only make the problem worse? We cannot. It is a solution that attempts to punish the marketplace when the oil companies are already paying huge taxes and investing in future exploration, an investment that has meant a great deal for this country.

It is a big government solution, one that my friends in the NDP are excited about as well. I have one question for both parties and it requires a bit of historical reflection, which is never a good idea for either of them. When has any attempt to control gas prices at the provincial level ever worked? No matter whether it was the government in Ontario or the government in British Columbia, it has never worked. It has been proven time and time again. I would suggest that if they really want answers they should call the Conservative government to account on its campaign promises.

The Conservatives said that they would cut gas taxes by capping the GST on gas prices above 85¢ a litre. They have done nothing. The hon. member might giggle here but he is well aware that the government has done nothing. It said that it would exclude the GST from the excise tax and yet it has done nothing. I wonder whether it kind of wilfully forgets or whether it has decided to show the same contempt it showed Canadians about delivering real accountable government and that no one will notice.

The Conservatives assume we will not look under the hood of those campaign promises, probably the hood of one of those new black SUVs the PMO is fond of, those gas guzzlers for which the taxpayer pays the high gas prices. They assume we will not call them on empty campaign promises.

A surtax will simply make the problem worse. The cost will surely be passed on to consumers.

If the hon. member for the Bloc Québécois wants to do something, he should be looking at a real solution. The real solution is to help consumers with some kind of direct tax benefit.

The Conservative members should be talking about their duty as a government. As the government, those members should have a solution. The only solution they have to this problem is their campaign promise to cut the GST on gas prices over 85¢ and to cut the tax on the tax. That is what I would like to hear and I am sure all consumers would like to hear that as well.