Debates of June 12th, 2006

Agriculture and Agri-Food

[Christian Ouellet, Bloc, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind the hon. member for Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière that I too come from a riding that has dairy farms. Some of these milk processing farms are currently on the brink of declaring bankruptcy because they are going through extremely tough times. When he says this will be done in the near future—his words—he is not being sensitive to the producers who are currently losing their farms because milk proteins continue to flow into Canada.

I would like to ask the hon. member why we cannot use article XXVIII to change things when all the other countries are doing so at the WTO. The United States are currently challenging WTO clauses. Why is the hon. member so determined for us not to talk about because negotiations are underway? When there are negotiations at the WTO, it is vital that the House know what the government wants to do.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat my answer.

I mentioned in my speech and to my hon. colleague from Richmond—Arthabaska earlier that countries like the United States and Mexico are not subject to article XXVIII of the GATT. Milk proteins could therefore enter quite easily through these two countries. Article XXVIII would not be effective and would be inappropriate at this time.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I listened closely to the parliamentary secretary's remarks. If I have ever seen a government try to straddle a barbed wired fence, this is certainly it. As the member from the Bloc Québécois said, the Conservatives are really straddling the fence and trying to talk from both sides of their mouth at the same time.

The parliamentary secretary went to great lengths to leave the impression that all other countries are opposed to Canada's position. The member knows that is not the case. The member knows that not all countries are opposed. There may be somewhere around 20 opposed to our position. However, the great majority of the countries are not opposed nor are they in favour. They are just not taking a position. For that, roughly 100 countries or so, the government should be working to bring them onside to explain how supply management would be good for them.

Will the parliamentary secretary tell us just what is the government's strategy in trying to gain a sensitive products category at the WTO, like the previous minister was trying to negotiate? And gaining good favour in doing it, by the way. Will the member outline the strategy in that regard, so that we can in fact win the round at the WTO and maintain that good system that we have in Canada that should be a model of rural development for the rest of the world?

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, our government can only negotiate in public existing WTO details of agreement. This would place Canada in a position of weakness, which would be very harmful to Canadian producers. Our government's goal is to have the best possible solutions that are well balanced and promising for the future of our agriculture—a good vision for the future, which the previous government never gave us.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I am indeed pleased to speak on the motion by the member for the Bloc Québécois. The motion before the House calls upon the government to join with the opposition parties and stand behind our supply management producers.

I am really amazed by the government changing its tune from what it said it would do during the election. This is what the Conservative election platform said with respect to supply management. It stated:

A Conservative government will:

Ensure that agriculture industries that choose to operate under domestic supply management remain viable.

That sounds good. The platform went on to state:

Canada needs efficient production planning, market-based returns to producers, and predictable imports to operate domestic supply management systems.

Yet, and this is where the real concerns come in, there is another document by the Conservative Party, signed by the current Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs in February 2004. It stated:

A Conservative government will ensure that any agreement which impacts supply management gives our producers guaranteed access to foreign markets, and that there will be a significant transition period in any move towards a market-driven environment.

That is really sliding away from protection of supply management and how the supply management system operates. That is really suggesting that the Conservatives would go to an open market marketing system and have a transition period so that the supply management system could figure out what to do with itself in that time. At the end of the day, though, producers would be in an open market marketing system at the mercy of the multinational corporate sector, which many of the other commodities are at the moment, and that is why they are in such great difficulty.

This statement clearly will result in the undermining and destruction of supply management. Neither the Prime Minister nor the foreign affairs minister repudiated this statement. There is an opportunity for members opposite, for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food or indeed his parliamentary secretary, to do that today. We will see if they will. We will give them the opportunity to come clean on where the Conservative Party of Canada really stands with respect to the supply management industry.

With respect to supply management, then, the system was the result of government and farm organizations realizing that to stabilize the Canadian industry, to ensure security of supply and quality, and to provide the basis upon which the primary producer would realize an adequate income, a system of supply controls, reflecting demand, would prove to be the best course of action. In other words, through the Canadian milk supply management system, it is effectively figured out what market demand will be in the country and then production is matched to meet demand.

That is why this discussion is so important. We allow, as I said earlier, 6% imports of dairy products. That is factored in. The opponents of supply management talk about supply management being absolutely protectionist. It is not. We allow 6% imports of dairy products into this country. The Americans allow only 2.75%. Canada is much more open in dairy than are the Americans, and far, far more open than are the Europeans.

However, with respect to the current motion before the House, with milk protein able to come in through other ways, we as an industry cannot really know how much of that market is going to be displaced or how much of the product is going to require disposal through the skim milk powder disposal system. It jeopardizes that supply management system.

That is why this motion, put forward in concurrence with what the committee did the other day, is so very important.

As for allowing this situation to continue, let us go back to when supply management first was brought in. We were not technologically advanced then. Milk was milk was milk. The quota system basically was based on butterfat. Now the technology is there to break milk down into various components. The industry breaks it down into various components and ingredients. Violating the intent of the system, it is imported and basically it is remanufactured it into cheese or ice cream or whatever. This has an impact on the original design of the supply management system.

Basically the system is one that I think we should be presenting to the rest of the world as a rural development policy. It is a system that makes sense for sensitive products, and every country has sensitive products. It is a system that provides reasonable returns for efficient producers and a high quality product to consumers at reasonable prices. Let us look at our prices for dairy products in Canada. Sometimes they are a little higher than those in the United States, but on average they are lower. As a result, our producers are able to invest capital in their industry because they know that if they are efficient they are going to have reasonable returns.

Why do we think Canada is recognized as having among the best breeding stock in the world in terms of the dairy industry? Because for decades dairy producers have been able to invest in the genetics and the breeding stock to build that herd, that is why. They knew they would make reasonable returns on the sale of their milk, so as a result, we built one of the best and high quality genetic breeding stocks in the world. That stock is in demand.

There is a problem with the United States at the moment, in that it will not take cattle over 30 months. The government has failed absolutely to address that problem with the U.S. Farmers are suffering as a result of that border restriction.

On the mad cow situation, the Americans said long ago that they would abide by the science, but then there was another animal with the disease found in B.C., just as there have been more animals with the disease found in the U.S. Then Congress puts a little pressure on the administration and it goes against the basic agreement that it would allow live cattle over 30 months in by June. As a result, Canadian dairy, beef and breeding stock producers suffer again and the government opposite sits on its hands because it does not want to challenge its good friend, George Bush. Who suffers? Producers suffer.

How important is the supply management sector? Supply management generates over $7 billion in farm cash receipts a year, accounting for 20% of Canada's total agriculture receipts. With an average age of 47, dairy, poultry and egg producers can see a future that allows them to raise their families and make a living in rural Canada.

The stability of supply management allows producers with young families to contribute to rural development. Canadian dairy, poultry and egg producers use over $3.1 billion worth of feed per year. Milk, chickens, turkeys and eggs produced in Canada support jobs in over 1,100 processing plants.

Again, the pressure from our trading partners is to move Canada further away from these institutional structures that have benefited consumers and producers to those that favour unfettered trade. We have seen the kind of money that we have had to put out as government in the last number of years to those commodities that trade in a so-called unfettered market, and it is anything but unfettered.

The fact of the matter is that producers in Canada are competitive and they are efficient, but they cannot compete against the treasuries of the United States and the European Community. It is very difficult to compete against trade law that allows Brazil and Argentina and other countries to use low wages, poor environmental standards and poor land policy in the production of their products.

The whole system at the WTO needs to be revamped, but it needs to go further than what is currently on the table, because if we really are going to have a level playing field, then we have to include labour, labour standards, safety of workers, environment and land use. If we had that and no competition in international subsidies from some of our trading partners, then there is no question about it, Canadian producers would be at the top of the line.

Recent surveys found that close to 90% of Canadians surveyed believe that we as a country should be producing food domestically to meet Canadian needs. The assumption by some is that to continue supporting supply management the consequences are that Canada prevents imports and prevents access to Canadian markets. I want to make a point on that. The fact of the matter is that this argument that Canada does not allow imports in its supply management sector is very, very faulty. I know that the government opposite has fallen for that argument. It believes that supply management is protectionist.

Let me read some figures for the members. Canada imports 6% of its market in dairy products, 5% for eggs and turkey, 7.5% for chicken and 21% in hatching eggs. The United States, as I said earlier, allows only 2.75% access for dairy. Europe allows only 0.5% for poultry. When we figure it out, if all countries provided the 5% access that we do, overall trade in the global community would increase by these figures: a 77.5% increase in cheese, a 114% increase in pork, a 152% increase in poultry, a 50% increase in wheat, and a 92% increase in beef.

The problem is not Canada and Canada's supply management system, even though some perceive it to be. It is not the problem. This clearly shows that the position the previous government had taken in negotiating a sensitive products category made absolute sense, because other countries have sensitive products.

As for the Conservative government, we wonder what it is doing. The parliamentary secretary said earlier today that the Conservatives are really standing on the fence. They are trying to leave the impression that they are doing something when they really are not doing much at all.

In testimony before the Senate agriculture committee on May 11, the president of UPA made the following observation with respect to the Canadian Wheat Board and the future of supply management. Mr. Pellerin said:

If you attack the Canadian Wheat Board, in the end you will attack those types of central selling desks. That is the final objective of the free marketers....

I make that statement because we know very well what this is all about. In fact, I believe the parliamentary secretary said that the Minister of Agriculture is going before the agriculture committee tomorrow to talk about why he wants to destroy the Canadian Wheat Board. That is what it is all about.

The Conservatives talk about dual marketing but there is no such thing as dual marketing when it comes to single desk selling. We either have single desk selling or we do not. If we do not have single desk selling then the Canadian Wheat Board will not have the opportunity to maximize returns back to the primary producers.

In response to a question in the House on the government's position at the WTO on state trading enterprises and the Canadian Wheat Board, the Minister of Agriculture gave a very confusing answer and left unclear what its real position was. I mention that because if the government is sincere about the supply management system, which is what the motion is about, it should show us its unequivocal support for the motion and then we will see what happens at the end of the day. When we look at some of the other positions it is taking it is not really all that strongly on side.

Consumers have also consistently maintained a serious concern with respect to the quality of their food. A recent survey for Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada found that 38% of consumers were concerned about the presence of GMOs in their food and that 49% were concerned about the presence of hormones in their food. An effort by the pharmaceutical company, Monsanto, in the mid-1990s to introduce the growth hormone RBST for use in dairy cattle to increase milk production was opposed by the dairy industry, and with good reason. One survey found at the time that if this hormone were introduced into Canada, 34% of consumers would lessen their purchases of milk and dairy products.

The point I am raising is the whole strategy at that time was to increase milk production when we did not need to increase milk production. We were meeting our domestic demand. The dairy industry strongly opposed it and the dairy industry, along with ourselves, won the day and prevented that system from coming forward. It shows the kind of support I think there is for the supply management system.

Support for the supply management system was again demonstrated in November 2005 with the unanimous passage of a motion in the House of Commons supporting the current supply management system at the WTO.

A prominent United States agriculture economist has found in a recent study,“Rethinking U.S. agriculture policy”, reported by the Agriculture Policy Analysis Centre in 2003 at page 15, that:

The traditional role of the federal government was to do for agriculture what it could not do for itself: manage productive capacity to provide sustainable and stable prices and incomes. Supply management policies have historically prevented chronic over production and depressed prices.

What that statement clearly shows is that many people understand that the supply management system prevents the manipulation of producers and countries one against the other. It empowers farmers to manage their own industry by matching supply to meet demand. The supply management system is under such attack at the WTO because the multinationals do not like that system. They want to be able to manipulate, manoeuvre and abuse and to buy cheap and sell high.

What worries me about the government's waffling on this motion and the fact that it is not taking a very clear stand at the WTO is that it will open up our supply management system to problems in this country and the ultimate losers will be our supply management producers and Canadians as a whole.

If we could gain the support of the government for the motion, although it would not be absolute that it is solid at the WTO in terms of its discussions and that it is absolutely solid in support of supply management, it would be an indication that it is moving ahead a wee bit.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I find it interesting that in 2005 all parties agreed to support supply management, and this party truly does support supply management.

I also find it interesting that for 13 years the Liberals had the opportunity to do things about supply management and article XXVIII and yet they stood back and did nothing until they were out of power. Now that we are in power, they seem to think that everything should be done in 100 days.

I can say that many things have been done in the first 100 days. One thing about this government, as opposed to the previous government which tended to put programs together in a piecemeal opportunity and which talked about the CAIS program, a program built to help the government and not farmers and build on ad hoc programs, this government will deal with agriculture and the industry in the best way we can. We will deal with supply management, and not piecemeal, in support of that type of a motion, those types of things that will disseminate and pit one industry against the other.

We want to deal with supply management by sitting with the processors and the producers to ensure we move ahead in a proper and formal manner.

I would suggest that not everyone in the supply management system agrees that we should be dealing with this. Why is this government so intent on moving ahead on one issue within supply management and not looking at the industry as a whole?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I know the member made a slip when he said “this government”. I know he wishes we were the government, as do we, but we are not.

I need to make a point on this 13 years in which, yes, we formed the government. International trade, as the member knows, is 149 countries and we worked pretty consistently toward a solution at the WTO.

I want to make a couple of points which the minister and the Prime Minister fail to mention consistently. When the previous government was in power, producers had the highest payments in Canadian history. The previous government balanced the books and left the present government with a huge surplus. Never before has a new government come to power in such good fiscal shape.

What did the Conservatives do for the farm community with the surplus? Absolutely nothing. They announced in their budget more money but the more money they announced in the budget was actually less money than was committed by the previous government.

They talk about immediate cash for farmers but there was no immediate cash for farmers by the spring. However they did announce, which went through the House the other day, a $100,000 cash advance for farmers, which is a loan. Farmers cannot borrow themselves out of debt. I wish the government would realize that. It needs to give them some assistances in terms of payments to their commodities.

At the WTO at least this government was negotiating, negotiating tough and a sensitive products category in there to protect supply management and believed in state trading enterprises, which the government obviously does not do.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the hon. member for his defence of supply management.

I am glad he brought up the topic of the Conservative Party's election promises. Indeed, during an election campaign, there is no great commitment involved in showing support for the supply management system, in making promises in that regard and including them in an election platform. With this motion, the Conservatives are now being tested to see if they will really protect the supply management system.

We debated this motion in committee. We heard arguments from all sides. However, I would like to return to the fact that the hon. member for Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière said earlier that this motion presented a contradiction. He feels that this is not the right time to table it, while consultations are being held with dairy producers and processors at the minister's request. I would like to ask the member, who has already been part of a government, how this constitutes a contradiction.

I see another contradiction, which is as follows. The Canadian International Trade Tribunal has been mentioned. We heard this argument in committee. This tribunal made a decision and so did the Court of Appeal. We are more or less bound by that decision. It is interesting, because the decision is unfavourable for us. Political will could easily correct the situation, which, I would remind the House, is the result of a mistake made by the Canada Border Services Agency approximately 10 years ago. It is an unfavourable decision and no one really wants to move on that side.

Furthermore, a decision was also reached in another file—a decision that is in our favour—namely, in the bicycle file. In that regard, the Canadian International Trade Tribunal is allowing Canada to tax discounted bicycles, cheap bicycles imported from Asia, while the government and even the industry minister, who has a factory in his own riding, decided to do nothing in this file. That is a glaring contradiction. I would like to hear what the hon. member has to say about this.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, there is no question that the Conservative Party left the impression during the election campaign that they would support supply management. However, contradictory statements have been made about the agreement between the now Minister of Foreign Affairs and the current Prime Minister which should cause the supply management industry to worry.

If we were to support the concurrence motion it would send a clear signal to the rest of the world that all four parties in this House are united in terms of our strong and unequivocal support for the supply management system.

We heard the discussions at committee and, yes, some on the industrial side are worried about how they would remain competitive if the tariff line were changed, and I understand those worries. However, I do not understand why the government always sees fit to put pressure on the producers instead of on the industry. If we were to support this resolution today I think it would take some of the pressure off producers and show them that we are solidly behind them. It would then require the Industry to come to the table with more willingness to compromise and maybe more willingness to support us in terms of our endeavours at the WTO.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with probably 90% of what my colleague said, everything but the fearmongering for which his party is famous.

I am concerned that the motion involves the issue of milk protein concentrates. I also am concerned that we are taking one issue, out of the thousand other issues that are being debated at the WTO, bringing it to the floor of this House and debating it as though the negotiations will now be done on a one by one basis here on the floor of this House.

Now that the member for Malpeque has agreed that this issue, which is being debated on the floor of this House, is part of a much larger picture, is he proposing that other issues at the WTO should also be brought to the floor of the House? His government never brought individual WTO issues to the floor of the House but now he is suggesting that is the way business should be done.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, if we want to talk about fearmongering, we should go back to the last House of Commons, back to the language used by the then opposition party. If medals were given out for fearmongering, the former Reform Party, the Alliance Party and then the CPC would have won those medals. They would be over at the Governor General's receiving them hand over fist for the fearmongering they pursued.

On the question the member raised, through the motion, we are trying to give the government the chance to show some backbone to the rest of the world that it is with the Canadian supply management industry in its endeavours in negotiating at the WTO.

[An hon. member]

Where were you?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

The member asked, “where were you?” A motion was passed unanimously. I mentioned earlier the sensitive products, the state trading enterprises from the proposition of strength, which we negotiated. We are trying to assist the government, to give it the information base so it can show that it is strong, that it has some backbone to stand up for the supply management industry in the country.

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am sharing my time with the member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River. For the next 10 minutes, I will tell the House why I feel we must stand up for the rural community, for the farm community that is supported and works within the supply management sector.

The debate is very timely in the sense of the urgency, given that we are now in the WTO discussions. We need to remain at the table. I think all parties in the House would agree we cannot abandon the issue.

It is also important to recognize that farmers need to have an ally. If farmers do not have the government in their corner, pray tell, who else can they go to? Who else is there fighting for them? We know the volume of trade Canada does in agriculture has doubled over the last 13 years. We have gone from $12.5 billion to about $26 billion today. Who has become rich? I believe the multinationals, the large corporations and traders in agriculture have made money. The farm gate has seen very little of those dollars.

When farmers continually buy at retail prices and continually sell at wholesale prices, it is very difficult for me to understand why society cannot realize why farmers are in difficulty today. The supply management sector depends upon this protection, but I see it as no more protection than what the auto industry or the pharmaceutical industry have in how they operate their business. Many industries today simply do not produce a product if they cannot sell it at a profit.

For the most part, farmers cannot put a price on their product, a price that will give them a profit. Within the supply managed sector, they can receive a return which guarantees them some element of protection because the cost of production is included.

It is interesting that we should talk about this today. The dairy industry has recently concluded a study which shows that it costs less to produce a litre of milk than it did seven years ago. What other industries today show those kinds of efficiencies, more milk per cow, butter fat at levels that we have not known before, doing things we have been unable to do in previous times, the genetics in our country? It is unfortunate for those who have developed those genetics in their breeding lines. At this moment, they are unable to sell their breeding stock because of the embargo against us from the United States.

However, those farmers are still surviving and have a lot of optimism. I think they constantly wonder whether the government will be there for them and whether there will be a supply management sector after this round of negotiations has concluded?

We know there is a lot of pressure from the government side, from the free traders, those who believe we should trade away everything we have as a raw product. It does not matter about the farm gate because there will always be farmers and people who produce product that will in the end fill the coffers of big business.

I would like to think that we are here, all parties of all stripes, to defend those people who do things they feel are important, and that is to feed the people of this nation. I am a farmer and I represent a purely agricultural riding. Not only do we have dairy and poultry producers, and a great many of them, we also have grains and oilseeds producers and other commodities.

I am not here defending supply management at the expense of another industry. I simply want to let my constituents and people across the country know that some members in the House who understand agriculture.

I have done a considerable amount of questioning, as I go around the country. I have asked people what they believe is the real cause and essence of our problem today. I have not heard consumer groups say that they pay too much for milk or eggs, or that farmers get rich at the expense of the consumer.

People today have choice and we have allowed them that choice. We have those who choose to buy organic products. They have the ability to buy those products from the shelves of our large stores. I believe it is important that we encourage this industry. We also have people who want to buy organic milk, and we have that commodities.

If we want to understand where we need to go in the future, we need to understand that, as a nation, we have a responsibility to feed our people. If we want to continue to feed our people, then we must do it in such a way that everyone understands who puts the effort into this food product available.

Even though there may be some differences, from time to time, on matters of political principles, it is important that together we, in the House of Commons, stand with Canadians. It is important that we support the motion that we go to the WTO and be prepared to put forward article 28. This is something we have hesitated to do for a long time, but the hour is late and we must move rather quickly. We need to move now to ensure that those farmers in the dairy and poultry businesses know we support them. We need to protect our farmers, particularly those in the supply management sector.

I would encourage everyone to take note of this. We know this is serious. We know butter oils created a tremendous problem in the manufacturing of ice cream in our country. Now milk protein supplements are causing great problems with the manufacturing of cheese, replacing what would be normally milk products with other products, which allow them to make these products. It is all done in the name of the almighty dollar.

I would encourage all of us to stand together and support this matter, which is of the utmost importance to our supply management sector.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question for the member is the same one I asked his colleague a few minutes ago.

I appreciate the member's comments. I know he has given it a lot of thought. My riding has a lot of supply managed commodities and farmers in it. They are looking very closely at what is happening in Geneva right now.

However, I will get back to the motion. It deals specifically with milk protein concentrates. We are taking one small, although significant, issue out of a large variety of issues that are being negotiated at the table at the WTO and bringing it to the floor of the House to be debated. My question will be the same as I directed to the member for Malpeque.

Is it the member's position that every issue being debated at the WTO should be brought to the floor of this House?

This is not about protecting supply management. Our party policy stands for supply management, for strengthening supply management. Our campaign promises revolved around that. Our government policy is that. We put $1.5 billion into agriculture in our last budget. It is not an issue of protecting or supporting supply management. That should be beyond debate here. This government supports it, but why take one issue, which is being debated at the WTO right now, out of context and bring it here? Is that what the member's plan is for all of other issues that are being debated right now in Geneva?

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I suppose that question could be asked of the Liberals on many occasions, but certainly on the matter of article XXVIII as it relates to the milk protein supplements.

This is something the Liberals were asked to address eight or nine months ago. The dairy industry came to us and we gave the same reasons as are being given today. We felt it was premature at that time. We still had some time to go. There was a time element that had to be expended and we felt we should address that. We have now gone beyond that time and there appears to be a greater urgency for doing so.

I do not believe we can bring every element of the debate into the House in terms of the negotiations in Geneva, but I believe this is one that we need to. We did not deal with this matter very effectively with butter. We know what happened in that industry. We lost the ice cream industry. How long are we going to stand by and let the importers bring in product? The processors are involved in this too, obviously. They are the reason we have this problem.

Do we really care about Canada? Do we really care about what goes on in rural Canada today? We could import everything we want. There is very little we cannot import from other countries, but I believe it is very important as a country to stand behind our rural industry. It is time for us to move and time to take action.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, like my colleague, I am a farmer. I used to deal quite extensively with the dairy cattle industry and dairy farmers when I was a dairy cattle buyer before the devastation that BSE brought and limited the amount of market access we had for our high quality dairy genetics that we have in Canada.

There is no doubt that the Conservative government is fully behind our supply managed commodities, dairy, eggs and poultry. We are with them 100% and we know those industries want to get a successful resolution at WTO.

There is some concern about the milk protein concentrated importations that are coming in that went up exponentially during the time that the Liberals were in power. I can assure the member that we are going to deal with this. One of the ways that we are going to deal with it is through the joint committee of dairy farmers and processors that the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food put together to find a resolution.

Does the member think it is a good idea for us to allow time for this committee to work and come to a resolution that then would be brought before the House for debate rather than talking strictly about this motion that we have right now?

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am not privy to the composition of that body that is bringing forward the study, but I presume that most of them are dairy producers or at least are involved in that sector.

I would expect, if I know that industry well enough, that they will probably conclude that the action being taken today is appropriate. That may very well be one of the things we are doing. If they come forward and suggest that we not go in this direction, I suppose then it is our duty as a committee, if that is what we are going to hear in the House, to make a determination of whether we know better or they know better. That is something we will have to determine once that decision is made.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Chambly—Borduas, Employment insurance; the hon. member for West Nova, Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this debate is truly interesting because it does represent not only the dairy industry as the point in question but it comes down to not only producers and consumers questioning whether butter tarts should have butter in them, whether cheese should not be described as a cheese-like product, and whether milk should not be described as near-milk or ice cream as almost ice cream.

Indeed, in my riding the Thunder Bay Federation of Agriculture has presented several petitions and cases noticing the 2.65% cutback in milk quotas and only a .015% increase in the price of milk. They are still expected to somehow cope not only with these negotiations at an international level at a city far away from all of us but right there on the farmstead.

At the agricultural committee several other parties and the government were there and heard this case. It comes down to how we actually manifest milk protein concentrates and what the impact is on a daily basis. Well it comes to a loss of approximately $2 million a month for our dairy industry. As this continues, clearly that cannot be sustained.

Members of the House would be well advised to know that when these people come to us, they are not coming as some kind of ill-informed protestors. There is hard research. These are people who care deeply about the future of our country who provide good food and good product to Canadians. When we find out that every time MPCs replace 2.6 tonnes of skim milk powder, we can see the immediate impact in a very physical kind of way. Are we finding now that MPC imports are constituting some kind of breaking point for supply management? The question is, do we go on pretending that it is not something to be concerned about or do we respond?

I believe that the motion before us is our opportunity, as a trigger, to emphasize to the farming community that we are responding very directly in a caring way and that this message is something that we take very seriously. There is a point that will come eventually, as these imports continue unabated, that the milk price structure in Canada may collapse and that is a fact.

When people who have been doing research on this and follow it, if not daily, hourly, tell us that, I am certain that they have concerns. Therefore, it is our duty as elected representatives to respond. In the agriculture committee, when we heard these presentations the committee decided in a vote to bring it to the House because it had now reached that level of concern.

A question was asked earlier about the other components of the industry. It was concluded in committee to support the dairy farmers. This would lend credence to their case in their discussions and negotiations with other aspects of the industry, including the consumers. In this way they would know the state of the industry at this time.

When we look at what is happening, we cannot at any time weaken our government's position. Unfortunately for the government, the Conservatives voted against supply management and against the dairy farmers in committee. That is the message that I have been receiving from farmers, so when I hear appeals from all four parties here in the House that this issue be addressed in a non-partisan manner, I am quite willing to join that and really want to do it.

I hear flimsy things blaming the previous government for all the ills. After six months people are asking where are all the miracle cures that we were proposing for the past number of years because they are not happening? This is not a simple issue. It is complex and difficult.

Last year the previous government set record payments for agriculture in the farming community. Farmers know what was done for them last year. When the present government says that, it loses all credibility. It is amazing what happens. We cannot pull the wool over the farmers' eyes. They feel it daily and they understand immediately the impacts of these decisions.

When we pushed again in the agriculture committee to get the money for the grains and oilseeds people earlier this spring, the minister actually claimed last year's money from the previous minister was the rescue money. Farmers know exactly what is going on; these people will not be taken in.

We have to understand that when things like the Wheat Board come up simultaneously with the concerns of the dairy farmers, they are asking what is really going on here. If the government claims to be in support of supply management, why is it not adamantly standing up for them? When it claims to be in favour of the Canadian Wheat Board, why is there a private member's bill that would destroy it?

We get calls from all over the country. I find it quite amazing the number of provinces that have called me, being from Thunder Bay--Rainy River in the heart of Canada. It is an interesting receiving point for these things, but primarily it is because of my role as a member of the agriculture committee. I am impressed by the high level of awareness and understanding in the rural communities on this issue and all of its complexities.

The farmers know, as we speak here, who is really going to be supporting them. Therefore, when members ask us to say, no, let us not really trouble our American neighbours as they flood our milk industry, dairy farmers are perplexed. To a large extent they are waiting to see what will happen, but I know that they are quietly angry and feeling deceived that the members they had theoretically supported at the ballot box are now abandoning them.

I have to face these people straight on in my riding. They come to see me in my office or I go to see them at the farm gate or in their agricultural society meetings or in the western part of the riding with the Rainy River Federation of Agriculture. They know exactly what the price of milk is per minute. They know the impacts of all these legislative things and what they can do. They know how many tonnes are coming in and they know how it affects them each and every day as they try to produce a quality product for Canadians.

Each and every one of us here has to deal with this and has to answer to the farming community. In the agriculture committee I asked a question of those people who were speaking for us in Geneva and at all these other trade talks in different places. I asked them if they truly, not just from an international trade standpoint, believed that supporting the Canadian farm industry was the main reason that they were going to bat, that they were going to negotiate, and that they were going to speak for all those farmers with passion, determination and a commitment.

This was not just academic. We wanted them to take the economy of the Canadian dairy and farming industries to heart. We wanted them to believe in the industries and to represent their interests in supply management with a fervour and a passion.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I do take issue with one of the member's points. He said that in committee we as the government voted against supply management.

I believe that is a misstatement and it is incorrect. If he were to go back and check his notes he would see that it was not a vote against supply management but a vote against this particular motion.

I would recommend, request and ask the member to read that motion again to the House so Canadians throughout the country will know exactly what the government voted against. He will find that what we voted against was taking one small, although important, aspect of the WTO negotiations and debate it here on the floor of the House out of context with the rest of the WTO negotiations.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the hon. member for Abbotsford has just confessed that the party he represents voted against supply management at the agriculture committee. I will confirm that is what happened at committee.

The point of principle was whether they were or were not in favour. When the motion was presented, clearly--

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Read the motion.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I was there and I saw it happen. I do have the motion in front of me.

I just want him to know that in point of principle, which is what we do with these decisions, that is what happened. Very clearly, the government voted against supply management and in no uncertain terms.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Bill Blaikie]

The hon. member for Kenora--Rainy River.