Debates of June 14th, 2006

Criminal Code

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, because the time is short, I want to make three points.

I want to thank the member for raising this issue, which deals with some fundamental values. It is important for Canadians to hear this discussion. It is a valid debate and I can see no better place than the Parliament of Canada for holding it.

Currently, under the laws of Canada, the fetus has no rights. It is interesting to note that the U.S. secretary of health and human services amended the regulations, which he oversees, to amend the definition of child. Now the definition of a child is a person under 19 years of age, including the period from conception to birth. The United States did this for one reason. Medical science today is doing a lot of work in terms of rectifying problems detected in a fetus prior to birth. Insurance companies were not going to pay for this because a child was defined as someone who was born. The change in the regulations took into account the fact that real work was being done that should be covered by insurance companies, and the change in the regulations did just that.

Therefore, this is not an entirely irrelevant discussion.

With regard to domestic violence, members should know that the two most prevalent periods for domestic violence are after a breakup or during pregnancy. That is a fact. Bill C-291 would have been votable had it not asked for double jeopardy or two penalties. Had the bill been worded that if the mother were injured or died and the aggressor knew she was pregnant, this would have represented aggravating circumstances, and that would have warranted stiffer penalties than otherwise would have been prescribed under the law. This would have been appropriate here and we would have had a vote.

The member is not totally offside on this issue. However, under the circumstances, it is unfortunate that the House will not have an opportunity this time to talk about these issues. It is very clear that once conception occurs, there is a virtual certainty that a child will be born.

[Leon Benoit, Conservative, Vegreville—Wainwright, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to very briefly comment on the remarks of the member from the Bloc who tried to make my bill an abortion issue, which it is not. His speech clearly was not relevant to the debate taking place here today.

The member from the NDP tried to do that too, but at least she did bring in some honest debate on the issue. I did not agree with it, but that is fine. We carry on debates and we do not always agree with the positions taken.

Earlier this month my bill was deemed non-votable because it was declared by a committee to be clearly unconstitutional. This is quite extraordinary since at least three lawyers, with experience in criminal law, have said that it is not clear at all that it violates the charter. They were quite surprised at the decision taken by the committee.

Although the justice minister said in his opinion that it was unconstitutional, that standard is not good enough to deem a bill to be non-votable. That is an opinion from the justice minister. We see judges on both sides of a lot of issues with opinions. Therefore, clearly, the bill should not have been deemed non-votable, because it is not clearly unconstitutional. There is reason for debate on that.

The Standing Orders clearly state that in order to be deemed non-votable with respect to constitutionality, it must clearly violate the Constitution, including the charter. The committee provided no proof that my bill met that sense of certainty.

Sadly, what happened is the process was abused and the constitutional criteria was used simply as a convenient excuse when all opposition members collaborated to prevent my bill from coming to a democratic vote in the House. The reason I believe, although who can ever judge for sure, is that some people do not want to deal with this issue because they believe it is a thorny issue for some reason.

Having been through the process of having a private member's bill deemed non-votable for reasons that seem to be, to quote one lawyer's opinion on what happened, “disingenuous”, I am in a far better position than I otherwise would have been to comment on how manifestly unfair the current process is and to suggest possibilities for improvement.

The current process allows five members of the subcommittee on private members' business to decide on the votability of a private member's bill, in secret. They deemed that my bill was clearly unconstitutional without providing any information whatsoever on how the charter would supposedly be violated, nor what part of my bill was in violation. I had to guess. This is like taking someone to court and asking them to defend themselves without telling them with what they are being charged.

I went to the full committee and appealed, not knowing the reason and having no way to find out the reasons for my bill being rejected as a votable bill in the first place. How was I supposed to present any kind of a reasonable defence for what had happened?

However, even changing this is not likely sufficient to present the process from being abused, as we have seen happen with my bill. Because even after I had my chance to defend the bill to the main committee, albeit only in a generic way because I did not know exactly what the problems were supposed to be, the committee upheld the subcommittee decision. All opposition members voted against making my bill votable, in spite of the fact that it clearly was not unconstitutional. This was a sad political process to an end rather than respect the intent of private members' business, which is to have fair and honest debate on private members' bills.

If they had even said that they were unsure if it were unconstitutional, we could have debated it, voted on it and if the vote was passed, it would go to committee and amendments could be made.

I have changed the bill so that, when it comes to the House again by someone else at some time, there will be no constitutional issue whatsoever. I believe at that time it will be supported by most members in the House.

Let me conclude by saying to Mary Talbot, the grandmother of baby Lane, and to Lane Griffith, the father of baby Lane, that we will not forget him. If there is any good at all that can come from tragedy such as the one that befell Olivia and Lane and Liana and her baby, maybe it is this: that it will encourage all people of goodwill to mobilize together in an effort to bring an end to this abysmal lack of justice that exists in Canada today toward pregnant women and the children they love.

I can see that I am out of time. I appreciate having had this time today. I look forward to a revised version of the bill coming before Parliament. It could happen at any time. Because it was deemed unvotable, it could come up again in this Parliament. I am looking forward to it and I will support the bill.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The time provided for the consideration of private members' business has now expired. As the motion has not been designated as a votable item, the order is dropped from the order paper.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I was very much looking forward to the chance to address the House on what has become a critical issue for many Canadians and I hope a growing and critical issue for the government.

I hope a number of members will be offering their opinions on this issue, because the New Democrats have been extremely critical of the government's choice to cut the EnerGuide program. It is certainly not something the Conservatives talked about during the last campaign, unless one of the members here tonight will enlighten me as to why a party would make such a silly commitment during a campaign. Certainly it was not talked about prior to the cancellation of the program. There was no consultation with the key stakeholders. There was no engagement of Canadians in any sense of the word. It was simply a drastic cut to a program that by all measures was working very effectively for Canadians.

Two main components were in play. One was an EnerGuide program to help Canadians at large. It was a program that had been in place well before the turn of the millennium, but had increased exponentially once the government had started to make contributions to allow homeowners to engage in the process of lowering their energy costs.

There are a number of charts, and I will table them in the House, that show Canadians were engaging in the program in an exceptional way, a way in which we would hope Canadians would engage in other environment programs. This program was proving to be successful. It was making the investments that governments talk about but had finally begun to make.

Bill C-48, the so-called NDP budget, was a huge push forward in putting real dollars on the table so Canadians could actually lower their energy costs.

A lot of people will ask what the point of this was and did the program really meet the means and measures it was meant to. Certainly it did. The ratio was that for every dollar the government was putting in, Canadians, private individuals, were putting in a little more than $3.50 to make the adjustments and improvements to their homes that would lower their dependence on energy by almost 30% on average.

If we told average homeowners in Canada that there was a program that would offer a 30% reduction in their home heating bills, a lot of Canadians would say it was an excellent thing and that finally after so many years the government was doing something real and tangible that their families could appreciate. They could spend the money they saved in other places and thereby improve the value of their homes.

The NDP supported this. We supported it so much that when we had the government to the wall, we insisted that these types of programs happen. This program lowered our energy dependency. It lowered greenhouse gas emissions across the nation. It leveraged funds. It resulted in almost four tonnes of greenhouse gas reductions per house per year.

The minister's response to the question was absolutely atrocious. Rather than take up the issue and debate the merits of the program as to whether or not it was good, the minister chose instead to make personal attacks. This is becoming the norm in this place.

The minister did not attend Bonn in a serious way, other than to say that Canada was backing out of Kyoto. She ducked out on the smog summit and attended a blue chip luncheon instead. She has not attended the committee at this point, but there is a standing invitation. She ducked out of a meeting of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, an opportunity to address Canadian mayors. They were so interested in this program that they passed a unanimous resolution at that forum calling on the government to reintroduce the program and for fundamentally not being responsible about climate change.

We are wondering when the minister will actually show up on this file, start to defend the interests that an environment minister is meant to do and bring this--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley for his interest and hard work on the environment file. I look forward to working with him to make sure that we have effective programs that help clean Canada.

Regarding his questions on the different programs, I believe that the Minister of Natural Resources has spoken about this issue on numerous occasions. It is hard to justify continuing programs that require that 50¢ out of every $1 go to administration costs.

While we appreciate there are sound reasons for encouraging homeowners to take steps to improve the thermal efficiencies of their homes, we as a government are strongly committed to taxpayer value for money and effective program design and administration.

Continuing programs that require $2 of funding for every $1 of subsidy is just not acceptable.

We appreciate the important role that energy efficiency can play. Energy efficiency can strengthen economic competitiveness. It can lower the cost of heating, cooling and other energy services, reduce investment in infrastructure supply and reduce emissions to the environment.

As we move forward we are committed to developing an approach to clean air and greenhouse gas reductions that is effective and that produces real results. We need to see emission levels decline through the interventions that we as a government put into effect. That is the bottom line.

There has been little effect seen from the previous government's programs aimed at climate change or clean air. There has been no improvement in air quality and greenhouse gas emission reductions.

The government is committed to delivering a made in Canada approach that sees real progress in cleaning up our environment and reducing greenhouse gas emissions. We will do this in an open and transparent manner by setting realistic and achievable goals. We expect that the full scope of the government's made in Canada solution to clean air and climate change will be articulated in the months ahead.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, what an opportunity to address again the untruth in the reading of numbers. The Deputy Minister of Natural Resources has shown it to be otherwise. This 50¢ on the $1 in audits has been shown to be 12¢ in fact.

For a party and a government that is looking for accountability, what other way than to do a proper assessment and audit on the way the government is spending money than to audit the very improvements that Canadians are making to their homes, to audit the very decisions that Canadians are making in order to lower their energy costs.

Part of this program was delivered with the unanimous consent of the House. The parliamentary secretary was with me when that passed in the House not six months ago. To turn around less than two months after the election and cancel a program for the lowest income and most vulnerable Canadians, a program that had received all-party support is atrocious. I would like to ask him why the switch, why so quick, and to get the numbers right.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we welcome all members of the House to work with us as we map out our made in Canada plan that improves our air quality and lowers our greenhouse gas emissions.

We plan to develop and deploy leading edge technologies that are clean and efficient in their conversion of energy and resources into goods and services. If we succeed in this endeavour, we can lay the foundation for a prosperous and sustainable economy that will be the envy of the world while ensuring that future generations inherit a stable and productive environment.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, as the day for the implementation of George Bush's western hemisphere travel initiative quickly approaches, Canadians in border communities are becoming increasingly nervous about the lack of leadership from the Conservative government.

When I raised this issue in the House two weeks ago, the Minister of Public Safety brushed off my concerns with yet another non-answer. Since the minister is so blasé about the issue and since his promised solutions have yet to materialize, I would like to take this opportunity to remind him of exactly what is at stake with this policy.

On January 1, 2008, all Canadian and American residents will require a passport to cross the Canada-U.S. border. Such a rigid requirement will severely impede the flow of goods and people across the border. Even the Minister of Foreign Affairs concedes that it will likely cost the tourism industry more than $1 billion per year in revenue. Others estimate that the number is more like $2 billion in lost revenue.

For a riding like mine that depends on casual cross-border travel, this will have serious implications for the tourism industry. In my riding, when the weather heats up in the U.S., we get a flow of tourism. It is that volatile and that quick. If there is some special project or special package in the tourism industry, we get the flow from the U.S. It is not always planned tourism.

As well, the western hemisphere travel initiative has important ramifications for other Canadians. For example, each year Quebec City hosts the largest peewee hockey tournament in the world. In 2008, American teams that have played in Quebec for years will find themselves turned away at their own border should they come into the country without passports.

It also means that American families will have to spend more than $500 on passports to visit their relatives in the Maritimes. How many, I wonder, will simply choose not to visit us?

Now the government assures us that the U.S. government is willing to consider an alternate secure travel document for Canadians travelling to the U.S. To date, however, there have been no firm decisions as to what would be required from such a document, and there are no guarantees that we will even reach an agreement on this matter.

Moreover, unless there is a cost effective and convenient alternative for American travellers, Canadian tourism will still be negatively impacted as Americans choose to stay at home rather than visit our country.

In the House of Commons, the Minister of Public Safety keeps repeating his mantra that his government has made this a priority. Unfortunately, no one told him that the Conservative government had only five priorities and that the western hemisphere travel initiative did not make the cut.

In fact, Canadians are dependent on the U.S. senate and American governors to protect their interests on this issue. This is bush-league leadership and Canadians deserve better.

The minister keeps repeating to us that the U.S. senate has passed a bill that will delay implementation. I would like to remind him that this development is meaningless unless the U.S. house of representatives also passes an identical piece of legislation, which is increasingly unlikely.

Even more concerning are statements from the Secretary for Homeland Security saying that the Bush government does not support delaying implementation. If the congress does not want to introduce the necessary legislation and if the Prime Minister's ally in Washington wants these new regulations to be implemented without delay, how can the minister expect to satisfactorily resolve the matter?

Let me ask the minister again. Why is the government abandoning Canadian communities on this issue? Will the government stand up and represent us on this vital question or do we have to depend on the U.S. senate and governors to defend our interests?

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in response to the question put to this House by my hon. colleague, the member for West Nova, regarding the United States' western hemisphere travel initiative.

This issue demands that we work effectively with our partners and our stakeholders in furthering the best interests of Canadians, not in working to antagonize our international partners, which would clearly not be effective. We believe that a sound approach that focuses on both advocacy and action will resolve this matter.

On the former, the Prime Minister has held open and frank discussions with President Bush in Cancun at the security and prosperity leaders' summit. They will meet again in July where the western hemisphere travel initiative will be a key item on the agenda.

The Prime Minister also recently met with provincial premiers and senior U.S. officials in Gimli, Manitoba, and continued to press the message that implementing this initiative without properly evaluating all the implications and doing the necessary due diligence is not in the interest of Canadians.

The Minister of Public Safety and the Minister of Foreign Affairs have met with their counterparts in Washington and both meetings have achieved success, both in establishing flexibility for implementation and in ensuring that Canada will continue to play a key role in considering options.

We are already seeing the results of this advocacy approach. Delay is increasingly being raised as a serious and recommended option in the U.S. That will allow time for the appropriate analysis to be done on technologies and infrastructure to ensure that it gets done right.

We are pleased to see that it is not only the Government of Canada that is carrying this message. Industry associations representing tourism and trade are being heard and are providing evidence of economic impacts that will be experienced in their areas should this initiative be implemented as it stands.

Canada's ambassador to the United States has been a strong advocate for additional economic impact analysis of the western hemisphere travel initiative and has made his case to Congress and a number of audiences both south of the border and here at home.

A number of high level meetings have been held with senior U.S. officials at both federal and state levels and I am pleased to report the Canadian government's position on this matter is held in high regard.

Progress is being made on several fronts, from the acknowledgement that alternative documents will be acceptable under this initiative to the increasing recognition that more needs to be done to properly evaluate new technologies and new infrastructure. This is both advocacy and action, but the government is doing even more.

Over $400 million in new funding was announced in budget 2006 for border security initiatives, including resources dedicated to ensuring that low risk travellers can cross the border quickly and securely using the latest biometric technologies.

This government is moving forward on other security commitments, such as equipping our border professionals with the tools and infrastructure they need to do their jobs and protect the safety and security of Canadians.

This kind of action is recognized in the United States and this government is doing its part to ensure the message is both clear and consistent. The Canadian border is open for legitimate trade and travel and closed to drug smugglers, organized crime and terrorists.

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the $400 million investment in the budget was a re-announcement of processes that were already underway under the previous government. They are good initiatives, do not get me wrong. They do speed up the flow but that is not what we are talking about.

We are talking about ordinary people who travel across the border once in a while, maybe for tourism or for business. We can say that we will have special documents that will get recognition but we do not know what that means. We have not even developed the documents yet and this initiative is to be implemented in 18 months, What are the Americans going to implement? What will we implement? How much will they cost? Will they be as expensive as a passport or more expensive? Will they be as readily available or more readily available? We do not have any of that information.

My riding depends greatly on the American tourist. We have a huge tourism industry in the Maritimes. It is the second or third largest industry in Nova Scotia. Because of market conditions that have been happening since September 11, 2001, we have seen a reduction in tourism. One ferry has completely closed. We have had Bay Ferries do a great initiative this year. We are seeing signs of improvement in the number of Americans who want to come into our country but we need to be welcoming. We need our government to be forcing the Americans to take our side.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this government has clearly made this issue a top priority and has moved forward with an approach that balances strong advocacy with effective action.

Canadians expect that their government will not turn its back and hope for the best. They expect their elected representatives to use whatever resources and influence they have to promote their interests. This government has done just that.

The Prime Minister made this issue a top priority with his announcement in Cancun and by tasking the Minister of Public Safety with moving this file forward in such a way that puts Canadian interests first. The Department of Public Safety is actively involved in this matter, as are the Canada Border Services Agency, Citizenship and Immigration Canada, the Privy Council Office, Foreign Affairs, Passport Canada, Industry Canada and others.

The full weight of this government's efforts has been brought to bear on this issue. Canadians expect their government to stand up for their interests and this Prime Minister and this government will continue to do that here at home and around the world.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6:50 p.m.)