House of Commons Hansard #55 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was cuts.
The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken
Order. I would like to draw the attention of hon. members to the presence in the gallery of the recipients of the 2006 Governor General's Awards for Excellence in Teaching History. They are: Mr. Antony Caruso; Ms. Kim Chagnon; Ms. Mary Scott; Ms. Jennifer Johnson-George; Ms. Julie-Catherine Mercadier; Mr. Greg Miyanaga; and Mr. Blake Seward.
The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken
The Chair has notice of a couple of points of order and questions of privilege that arose out of that rather enthusiastic question period. We will begin with the hon. Leader of the Opposition on a question of privilege.
Comments Made by Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime MinisterPrivilegeOral Questions
Toronto Centre Ontario
Liberal
Bill Graham LiberalLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, I rise today on a question of privilege arising out of a wilful misrepresentation during question period by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister.
It has been my privilege to serve in the House for 13 years. It is the first time in my life here that I have ever felt called upon to stand on a matter of personal privilege because of what happened in the House today, which I think brings into doubt the conduct of the House and the nature of our parliamentary democracy.
The parliamentary secretary said in response to a question about the terrible events around the torture and rendition of Maher Arar to Syria by American authorities that they--the Liberals--took actions “which ended up putting him in a Syrian jail”. This is from the representative of a party whose prime minister at the time accused me of being in high level consultations to defend a suspected terrorist.
The member for Calgary—Nose Hill accused Liberals also of the government's screening system failure to find its al-Qaeda list and the present Minister of Public Safety called for--and wait for this--a public inquiry, not a public inquiry to find out what happened to Maher Arar but a public inquiry to determine why the Liberals were defending a man suspected of links to al-Qaeda.
Mr. Justice O'Connor has specifically said that the actions that we took in order to get Mr. Maher Arar a release from jail were correct, that they were the right things to do in the circumstances.
Either the hon. parliamentary secretary should withdraw his remarks, as he did previously for misleading the House, or it is incumbent upon him to identify in the House those Liberals that he smeared by his comment, attacking them for specifically being involved in one of the worst human rights tragedies Canada has ever been involved in. It is a disgrace to Parliament and he is a disgrace to the House.
Comments Made by Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime MinisterPrivilegeOral Questions
Calgary Southeast Alberta
Conservative
Jason Kenney ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister
Mr. Speaker, I should probably first rise on a point of order for the closing remarks of the Leader of the Opposition, but I do not want to waste the House's time because I think it is clear to your honour that this ostensible point of privilege is in fact a point of debate.
My recollection is, and I believe the blues will confirm it, that I said it was the previous government that took the first steps that ended up with Mr. Arar in a Syrian prison. I further noted that it was peculiar that the Leader of the Opposition was not posing questions on this issue and I asked if it had anything to do with the fact that he had claimed that Mr. Arar was not being tortured.
What I find peculiar about this and the reason why I consider this a prima facie point of debate is that the context was that the official opposition was asking questions, demanding an--
Comments Made by Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime MinisterPrivilegeOral Questions
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
Comments Made by Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime MinisterPrivilegeOral Questions
Liberal
The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken
Order. The hon. Leader of the Opposition has raised a point. The hon. parliamentary secretary has the right to reply, and I expect to be able to hear his remarks. I would ask for order in the House while he delivers the reply he is making to the point that was raised by the Leader of the Opposition. We will now hear the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister.
Comments Made by Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime MinisterPrivilegeOral Questions
Conservative
Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Southeast, AB
Mr. Speaker, speaking of apologies, members of the opposition were asking the government for an official government apology to Mr. Arar, presumably because they believe the Government of Canada is responsible for what occurred to Mr. Arar. If not, why would they be asking for an apology?
The last I checked, the Government of Canada at the time was made up of members of the party opposite. Perhaps they do not want to accept any responsibility. We, as the current Government of Canada, do accept our responsibilities. We understand that there are responsibilities that flow from Mr. O'Connor's report and from the incidents which occurred under the previous Liberal government. I find it passing strange that they should demand an apology and assert a corporate government responsibility for what happened in the agencies of the Government of Canada during that period, but they themselves deny any responsibility. It is logically incoherent.
With respect to my claim that the Leader of the Opposition denied that Mr. Arar was the victim of torture, I would refer him and yourself, Mr. Speaker, to page 240 of the report on the events relating to Maher Arar by Justice O'Connor which says:
Some of the Minister's statements were inaccurate. Mr. Arar had not been interviewed independently. Syrian officials--
It carries on and says:
The minister's inaccurate statements, which appear to have resulted largely from some inaccurate information he was given about the consular visit, were very unfortunate. While there might have been no immediate consequence, statements like the Minister's create perceptions in the public mind, particularly in newsworthy cases such as Mr. Arar's. The perception that Mr. Arar had not been tortured was wrong and, no doubt, the Minister's statements planted the seeds of that misperception in the minds of some.
Those are not my words. Those are the words of Justice O'Connor, which I believe I fairly and accurately summarized.
I think this is clearly a point of debate. I am sorry to see that apparently the official opposition now wants us to forget who was government when this unfortunate incident happened.
Comments Made by Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime MinisterPrivilegeOral Questions
Liberal
The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken
The question of privilege that has been raised is one that I will regard. I will take a look at the statements that both members have made and come back to the House with a decision in respect of the matter. Off the top of my head, it sounds like a matter of debate, but I will look at the issues raised by both hon. members. I thank them for their submissions on this point.
On a point of order, the hon. member for Windsor West.
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Mr. Speaker, it is not the Liberals or the Conservatives who deserve an apology, it is Mr. Arar and his family who deserve an apology.
Comments Made by Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime MinisterPrivilegeOral Questions
Liberal
The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken
The hon. member for Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, also on a point of order.
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I am sure that the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment will agree that he misquoted me. In fact I said that in 2008 Canada will not be able to meet its target if we assume, unfortunately, an additional year of Conservative inaction on climate change.
Mark Warawa ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment
Mr. Speaker, the member is correct. The quote that I used is, “In 2008, I will be part of Kyoto, but I say to the world I don't think I can make it”. He also went on to say “which is simply unachievable” in referring to it. He is quite correct.
The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken
The hon. member for Scarborough--Rouge River is rising on a point of order.
Derek Lee Liberal Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
Mr. Speaker, during the course of debate on question of privilege, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister was clearly reading and quoting from his BlackBerry. Do the rules require him to table the BlackBerry as a document?
The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken
The hon. member for Scarborough—Rouge River is, as I recall, a member of the procedure and House affairs committee. Perhaps he can raise the issue there. With a report from the committee, we can decide whether it is something that ought to be tabled.
I suspect the interest of most hon. members would be that we not have BlackBerrys on the table; they do ring.
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Mr. Speaker, on the same point of order, documents on BlackBerrys can easily be printed. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister was clearly reading from a document within the software of his BlackBerry. He can print it out and table it in the House.
The rules are clear. Any member reading from a document has to table that document. We have requested it be tabled. All he has--
The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken
What the hon. member was reading was the blues from today's question period. That is what it sounded like. He was quoting exactly what somebody else had said. He had the blues on his BlackBerry. If it was not that, I am sure he can print it and table it. However, if it is the blues, there is no need for him to print it because everybody has access to this.
Use of BlackBerrys in ChamberPoints of OrderOral Questions
Calgary Southeast Alberta
Conservative
Jason Kenney ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister
Mr. Speaker, for the sake of clarification, as it seems to be a matter that has caused some disquiet in the House, I can report that what I was reading were simply notes I had written immediately after my question so I could best recall what I had said.
If the members opposite would like to begin a practice of tabling BlackBerrys, Mr. Speaker, I will leave that in your capable hands.
The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken
I think we will leave that in the hands of the committee. However, perhaps the hon. member could print the document, if he sees fit, and table it. I am sure it would delight all hon. members.
Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK
Mr. Speaker, the issue just discussed, having to do with technology in the House, is perhaps one that deserves some attention. In bygone eras everybody dealt with physical pieces of paper and notes written on those pieces of paper.
We are in a much different age and era now with electronic communications devices. When they are used for quotations in the House, it may be a case that our rules are a little behind the times. I very strongly recommend that the matter be taken up because this may become a more frequent occurrence.
Specifically on the business of the House, could the government House leader indicate to us what his priorities will be for the rest of this week and next? Also, it would be appreciated if he could give us some indication of how the government intends to at least begin the week following the Thanksgiving recess.
Second, I would ask him if he would be in a position today to specifically designate a date for the take note debate, which has been requested on Darfur. We have made that request in all good faith, and I know the government House leader has had it under consideration. I would appreciate his confirmation of when he intends to proceed.
Third, could give us, again, some indication of what specific evenings he would intend to designate for the special examination in the House of the estimates of two departments, which are part of the estimates process? We will need to deal with that in the weeks immediately ahead, and one of those weeks is occupied by the Thanksgiving break. The sooner we could know those dates the better.
Finally, as I have mentioned in the House before, it would be appreciated if the government House leader could indicate the government's plan and timing with respect to any motions pertaining to same sex marriage.
Rob Nicholson ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, it sounds like the hon. gentleman would like us to table everything we are going to do for the whole fall, right up to Christmas. Usually, the Thursday question is just for the week ahead, but it seems to have expanded.
Today, for sure, we will continue with the debate on the opposition motion of his party.
Tomorrow, we hope to complete Bill C-24, the softwood lumber agreement, which will followed by Bill S-2, hazardous materials, and Bill C-6, the Aeronautics Act.
Tomorrow, I intend to ask the House to approve the appointment of Graham Fraser as Commissioner of Official Languages for Canada for a term of seven years.
Depending on progress on the softwood lumber bill, it is my intention to call three justice bills next week as follows: Bill C-19, street racing; Bill C-18, DNA; and Bill C-23, Criminal Code efficiency and effectiveness.
Next Thursday will be an allotted day.
The answers to the hon. member's other questions he will know in good time.
Finally, there have been consultations and there is an agreement to have a take note debate on the situation in Sudan. Therefore, I think you would find consent for the following motion. I move:
That a take note debate on the subject of the Situation in Sudan take place, pursuant to Standing Order 53.1, on Tuesday, October 3.