Debates of Dec. 3rd, 2007

Budget and Economic Statement Implementation Act, 2007

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to be disrespectful and I do not want to accuse the member of being sexist in his insistence that we are talking about waitresses. I would think in this day and age we would be talking about servers, but since he clearly means women, let me talk about women who are working at very inadequate wages.

They are desperate for universal child care programs because they understand that the child care program is not only essential to ensure the safety, health and security of their child but it is early childhood development. It is early learning that is critical to the development and well-being of the child.

Let me talk about women earning very inadequate wages. It means that they are hurting because the government has not done anything about affordable housing, especially special needs housing, in some cases for single parents, and in some cases for older women who find themselves widowed or divorced and with inadequate incomes.

We know there are older women working as waitresses these days because they, in many cases, have the need for prescription drugs, either for their own illnesses or because they are supporting, with no help from the government thank you very much in terms of a universal home care program, and trying to provide desperately expensive prescription drugs for a family member or spouse who is ill.

I think if the member could just raise his sights a little bit to see the bigger picture, he would understand that most hard-working family members or single women, whom he has in his sights here, would rather have seen the investment in these kinds of programs. That would lift those in deepest poverty up out of poverty and give a break to hard-working families and individuals who are suffering because of the increasing gap between the haves and have-nots in our society.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to point out to the member that probably the best way to raise people out of poverty is through good paying jobs and one of the things that the member is not aware of is that corporations largely pass high taxes on to consumers. They pass them back onto people and they also pass them on in the way of lower wages.

We have heard this in the finance committee time and again. The more we tax corporations there is less investment, less money is paid to their employees, and higher prices have to be paid for their products.

I do not understand why the NDP does not get it. We are trying to benefit all Canadians and provide more opportunity. They are standing in the way.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I think that was an assertion, not a question. Sometimes it is hard for us in this corner of the House to know whether it is a Conservative or a Liberal member speaking because we cannot tell a bit of difference between them when they sing the praises of making even faster and deeper tax cuts for the wealthiest corporation.

Let us be clear.

[An hon. member]

It's a race.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Yes, it is a race to see who can give away the bigger tax cuts. The statistics are truly--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Malpeque.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to the budget and economic statement implementation act. I will use this time to spell out how serious the hog and beef crisis is in this country and the absolute neglect that the new Government of Canada is showing toward that industry in its time of trouble. I will keep my statements mainly on the new government's lack of commitment to Canadian farmers.

Nothing is so glaring in this economic statement as the new government's failure to respond to the crisis that primary producers are facing. I could go into a lot of areas, including the fact that the Prime Minister committed 18 months ago to a cost of production. Nothing has happened. There has been no cost of production for Canadian farmers.

I could point out the fact that the new government promised to scrap CAIS but all it did was change the name and pass a few little amendments that are already in place. Even with those few little amendments, the safety net program does not meet the needs of producers in the livestock industry.

The simple fact is that this country's beef and hog producers are facing the worst crisis in a century, bar none. There is no question that BSE was a crisis in the beef industry but it does not have a patch in terms of the crisis in economic pricing that the beef and hog industry is facing at the moment.

The new government, with its huge surpluses, is failing to address that need. I do not know whether it is caught in the Ottawa bubble, where nothing exists outside of Ottawa, and it does not understand the concerns, but it is certainly not acting when it should be acting in farmers' interests.

Traditionally in this country when commodity crises have hit in the past, previous governments have acted with haste and resolve to do their part to support a commodity in crisis. It does not matter whether it was Brian Mulroney with his $1 billion and $1.2 billion Canadian grain payments or the previous government under Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin in terms of BSE and other--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

The hon. member for Malpeque is one of the most experienced members of the House and I am sure he meant to the refer to the hon. member for LaSalle—Émard.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, my apologies. The fact is that other governments have acted but the new government is failing to do so.

The new government should realize that there are ways of acting. If I have time I will get into what the previous government did on beef in the past just as an example so that the new government will understand that there are things it could be doing.

Simply put, Canada is losing its hog industry and our beef industry is in serious trouble.

We in the House and Canadians need to understand that this is not just about losing a business. These are family farms and some corporate farms as well, but farming is not only a business. These are third, fourth, fifth and sixth generation farmers who are now going down the tube or exiting the industry as a result of financial pressures they find themselves under. These are not just numbers. These are farm families. These are human beings who are actually losing their heritage as a result of this farm crisis in which they find themselves.

The government must absolutely act, as other governments have in the past.

For those who do not understand the farming industry, these are not poor or inefficient farmers. They are the most efficient farmers in the industry who are now facing financial ruin. They are farmers who have responded to calls from governments over the last 20 years to increase production and increase their efficiencies so we could get into the export industry. Those farmers met that call that governments asked them to meet. They produced more efficiently, increased their production and exports from Canada went up and up. However, farm incomes went down considerably during that period of time.

These people, who met the call of government to become more efficient, more productive and produce more, are now facing financial ruin for themselves and their families. It is not because of anything they have done. It is because of events far beyond their control. Yes, part of it is the dollar, part of it is high feed costs and part of it is the amount of subsidy going into ethanol production, which pushes up the price of the feed costs, but they are efficient farmers.

The new government has a huge surplus. What is needed is an immediate cash infusion.

Last Thursday night, in my province of Prince Edward Island, the beef and hog producers had a meeting. I was not able to attend because I was returning from an international event on food safety. However, I have reports from that meeting. The beef and hog producers who attended outlined their fear and their frustration of where they were at in the industry and whether they could survive.

In Prince Edward Island, 30% of the hog industry has already closed its doors. Many others are hanging on by a very thin financial thread. For these people, this is a life's work, not only one life's work but, in many cases, several generations' life's work destroyed, while the government sits on its hands on a huge surplus and fails to put in an ad hoc financial payment to tide them over.

Previous governments have done that. Why will the government not act when it is absolutely necessary to act for the beef and hog industry in this country?

I have spoken about Prince Edward Island but it is the same across Canada. On the beef industry, let me read from a letter from the executive director of the P.E.I. Cattlemen's Association, Mr. Bradley. He said:

There is no doubt the Island's beef industry is in crisis. I get calls every day from producers asking if there is any government assistance on its way. Farmers are desperate. There is a huge amount of concern and desperation out there....

He goes on to say:

...The operations we are losing today belong to some of the best farmers in the region and once they are gone, they won't return.

Even The Guardian, our local newspaper, which covers the Island like the dew, talked about the situation. It said:

This province has been built on agriculture and Islanders need to think carefully before allowing that foundation to erode.

It goes on to state:

...almost 30 per cent of hog producers have closed their doors and most are losing $60-$80 per hog.

The article continues to state:

This isn't a question of whether farmers can weather this or that challenge; it's whether they can survive.

This is about the farmers of Canada. This is about hog and beef producers in this country. This is about food security. Do we want to be dependent on other nations for our food supply in this country? The crisis in which these individuals find themselves is not the farmers' doing. It is more the government's doing than any others.

In news reports on the Minister of Agriculture's meeting with the Canada Pork Council, they revealed that the minister expressed concern. I am telling the House today, on the third day of December, that a lot of these farmers will not be around by Christmas. Will we allow these farmers, the people who feed this nation, to go broke before Christmas? The minister does not need to show concern. He needs to come up with actual cash, with an ad hoc payment that will do some good.

The Minister of Agriculture owes it to the hog and beef producers of Canada to state clearly what his government intends to do and he needs to state that immediately. Governments have a responsibility to act and the Conservative government has displayed a consistent aversion to acting on behalf of struggling farmers. The hog and beef industry needs action now. I call on the government to act today.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that member frequently stands and talks about how our government is not acting in response to farmers and is not assisting farmers, but he forgets his government's abysmal record on agriculture.

For years the Liberals neglected agriculture in this country and they hurt farmers. BSE should never have happened in Canada, except that they failed to act when all the signs were there. When protection should have been put in place, they did nothing.

This government is standing up for farmers. We brought in compositional standards for cheese. We filed an article 28 against milk protein concentrates entering this country. That is good for dairy and it will help our dairy farmers.

We got the border open to Canadian beef exports and that will help the Canadian beef industry.

We are entering into a biofuels industry so our grain and oilseeds producers will have another market and can be self-sufficient.

This Conservative government put more money into agriculture, record agricultural funding to support our farmers because we believe in food sovereignty. We believe in our producers and we stand up for them each and every day.

That member did nothing when he was in government. We will take no advice from him.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, that member may be able to peddle wild stories in his riding about what the previous government did or did not do but nobody pumped as much money into agriculture as the previous government did.

Let us talk about BSE. The border was supposed to be opened in June when the Conservatives formed government, but because the Prime Minister was so close to President Bush he did not put the heat on to ensure that it opened in June.

The member said that we did nothing on BSE. Let us go through the list: $520 million for a BSE recovery program; $200 million for a cull animal program; and $680 million for a transitional industry support program. We stopped supplemental beef imports. It was not the member's government.

We had a fed cattle set aside program. We had a feeder cattle set aside program. We had authorized case special advances. We managed the older animals program. We assisted in establishing traceability. We fostered expanding export markets. We fostered increased slaughter capacity in this country. We put in place the loan loss review program. We expedited established review and plant appeals for slaughter plants. We increased the CFAA line inspectors. Finally, we put $80 million in place for traceability in the plants. It took the member's government 18 months to negotiate how that $80 million would be spent.

That member does not need to talk to me about what we did or did not do because I have just shown him our record. His government is failing. When the industry was in crisis we acted. It is time for that government to act today.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that was an interesting exchange. The descriptions of the mismanagement between the Conservatives and the Liberals are wonderful to hear. I will comment on the previous Liberal record. Obviously Canadians were not satisfied because they booted the Liberals out of office.

I want to get back to the update, which we are supposed to be discussing. It becomes very clear to us that there is not one thing in the budgetary update for ordinary, hard-working Canadians. As with the previous Liberal government, the Conservatives are continuing their corporate welfare program with large cuts to corporate taxes. We will hear a variety of stories around how good that is for corporations. I suggest the corporations and the banks are doing quite well in fact. The tax breaks for the corporations will reduce taxes by a further $14 billion a year. Together with the massive cuts contained in the bill, these will amount to $190 billion in years to come.

The obvious concerns I hear back in Hamilton are around the fact that Canadians fear the loss of fiscal capacity for the federal government in years to come.

Today, as we all know, Canadian cities are facing huge infrastructure problems. Last week, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities demonstrated this very clearly in its report. According to its information, there are some $123 billion of an infrastructure deficit in Canada.

In my community of Hamilton, year in and year out our city council has to turn to the province of Ontario for assistance, in the amount of approximately $20 million a year, and the Ontario government has said that this is not sustainable. When there is about a $4 billion deficit in infrastructure for sewage repairs that need to be done in Hamilton, what will happen when that hits us. Each year more and more watermains break because of the aging infrastructure.

Another point I will make is that Hamilton is the second stop for new Canadians when they come to Canada. When they find that they cannot afford to live in Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal, then Hamilton is their second home for them. The first moneys go to those other communities and Hamilton receives none. In the budget update there is no new money for immigration services.

What I am about to say will not come as a great surprise to members present, but Canadians are people with a lot of common sense. When I spoke to a number of them in my riding of Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, they were quick to point out that they were surprised a government with surpluses would not approach the matter with that same common sense.

Canadians know when the country is doing well, it is a time to invest in repairs and upgrade their homes and put a little money aside to prepare for that eventual downturn. They do not run to the bank and pay off their mortgage. They know that keeping reasonable debt to help sustain their cash flow is a wise proposition.

Another topic of conversation at our Timmies is the fact that seniors know they have been underpaid by some $500 per year for a number of years due to a federal government error. These seniors are waiting to hear from the taxman. I presume the government will be quick to move to ensure that Canadians get back the money they are owed. We know for sure that if the taxman were owed money, the government would be knocking on their doors right away.

When I speak about Hamilton in particular, it is one of the hardest hit areas of new unemployment in the last number of years. A manufacturing crisis is hitting all across our country. Hamilton has been the core of manufacturing for so many years and the crisis is particularly hard there.

We know that 11,000 people lost their jobs last year in Hamilton. They rightfully think the government would help them because of that loss in employment. In fact, the national average for accessing EI is about 40% and in the urban areas it runs between 20% and 22% in places such as Hamilton.

I have raised repeatedly in the House the desperate cycle of poverty that too many Canadians are living with today, the day in, day out misery they are suffering. In fact, in Hamilton one in five persons lives below the poverty line, many of whom are seniors. They could use that $500. As well as seniors, there are far too many working poor. Where there are working poor, there are poor children.

It has been in the area of 18 years since the House took the decision on a motion to end child poverty by the year 2000. Obviously, it missed that particular mark. In the budget, with the surplus moneys available to the government, we would have thought there would be something to help poor children.

In my riding of Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, there are programs within the schools, but some children do not have $1 to buy a hotdog at lunch or a slice of pizza. They are missing out on gym programs because they cannot afford a pair of gym shoes to take part in a much needed program.

I want to return to seniors for a moment. With a surplus of tens of billions of dollars, here was an opportunity for the federal government to offer some dignity to seniors as they are living out their final years. It could have moved forward on a national home care program.

Further, there was an opportunity for another very significant program of great benefit to seniors in particular. That would be a national prescription drug program. We have all heard horror stories in the House of so many people who cannot afford prescriptions. It is sad to say that seniors, the most respected people in our country, are top among those who cannot afford to purchase prescriptions that their doctors have said are essential to them.

Along with seniors and children, the government has failed students. The bill does not even mention students or student debt.

My theme today has, to a great extent, been on poverty and missed opportunities. A significant missed opportunity, in my opinion, was the chance to restore a federal minimum wage, which was taken out by the Liberals previously, at a base level of $10 per hour. This would be in combination with provincial minimum wage programs of $10 an hour to start to address poverty.

I would go so far as to suggest that the title of the bill before us today should be changed to the lost opportunities bill, lost opportunities for communities to invest for the future, lost opportunities for our children in poverty and lost opportunities for our seniors to live out the last of their days in dignity.

Speaking of lost opportunities, one serious lost opportunity was sacrificed recently by the Liberal Party opposite. Day in and day out we have heard other people calling for a national manufacturing strategy. The opportunity presented itself recently when the Bloc moved a motion in the House on manufacturing, with a call to action and suggestions for the government to stand up for the manufacturing sector, the workers who are at risk and the ones who have lost their jobs.

What did the Liberals do? They sat on their hands and did not vote. I find it extremely baffling as to why that would occur. It was not even a confidence motion. It was something that should have been what is called motherhood and apple pie. It should have been very easy for them.

The bill before us today has ripped the fiscal capacity out of the present and future governments. It has taken away all the opportunities I mentioned, and I am very concerned for the future of Canadians.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member for Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, and I was quite amazed. He touched upon several things, one being the national manufacturing strategy. He also touched upon students, children, seniors, needy parents and lost opportunities.

I will ask the member a question because I am really puzzled.

Prior to 2006, the manufacturing sector, at least in my province of Ontario, which is where the member is from, did not have the hundreds of thousands of lost jobs. Since the new Conservative government has taken over, they are being lost. He did not talk about the bill. He talked about the Liberals. That is what prompted me to get up on my feet.

As for lost opportunities, in the last budget, which the NDP supported and enhanced, there was money for students, for seniors and for the cities. There was the early childhood program, which the NDP supported. We agreed to part of the recommendations.

I believe the hon. member's heart is in the right place. However, why did the NDP betray those programs and overthrow the government? Indeed, he is right, all the programs have now been thrown out. The question is not what the Liberals did, it is why the NDP betrayed the constituents. The NDP members lent their vote and now Canadians know what they lost.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I responded to a similar statement, a speech given by the member for LaSalle—Émard. He talked about the Liberals and all the things they had done. It was very clear, at that point in time, there was an air of blame for the NDP.

The practical reality is Canadians were fed up with the corruption. They were fed up with the dollars being funnelled into Quebec, the $42 million of which a small part of it was uncovered by the Gomery Commission.

The Liberals still, to this day, have not respected the vote of Canadians. Canadians voted for change because they were tired of the same old insider politics. They were tired of the corruption of that party. Until the Liberals take ownership of that, until they heal, the poll numbers they see day in and day out will remain the same and get worse.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, again, I was prompted to respond to the use of the word “corruption”. There was an open and transparent judicial inquiry. We caught the culprits. They went to prison. There was restitution sought and paid back. I do not know to what the member is referring. We addressed it in a transparent way.

Members opposite wanted a commission. They talked about the boondoggle for years. After an inquiry and millions of dollars were spent, the auditors said that they could not find $64,000 and a couple of hundred dollars, to the tune of millions of dollars that could have gone to the program to which the he referred. I do not know what the member is talking about when he talks about corruption.

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member's last comments go to the heart of what I said a moment ago. The members from the Liberal Party opposite are having a great deal of difficulty taking ownership for those things that Canadians decided were wrong about their governance when they were in office.

We can quibble back and forth about a number here or a point of view there, but the end result was Canadians assessed the Liberals, the Liberal government in the past, found them wanting, felt they were dishonest and booted them out of office.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to add my comments on Bill C-28, the budget and economic statement implementation act, 2007.

It certainly was a statement worth discussing with our constituents. We had the opportunity to meet with them at home in our constituencies to get their views and opinions. We also had the opportunity to get the views of the city councillors and our provincial representatives. Today I would like to bring some of those comments to the attention of this House.

In the Liberals' last budget, moneys were allocated for the cities. The cities need funds to take care of sewers, to take care of roads--

[An hon. member]

That was a broken promise.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

--in the member's area of Peterborough and everywhere, not just the city of Toronto, Mr. Speaker, where I come from.

One of the highlights of the economic statement was a 1% reduction in the GST. This supposed tax reduction, according to all of the economists, boils down to is a savings of about $125 to $127 per person, approximately $10 a month. What does that reduction in the GST mean? It means the average consumer has to spend money in order to save money.

I was on my feet during the budget debates when the so-called new Conservative government said that it was reducing personal income tax. I held up a year-end statement of a Canadian, whose name I will not mention, who wanted to know why, under the Liberals, that person was paying at the low end, 15%, and that under the Conservatives that person was paying 15.5%. That is factual.

Now the Minister of Finance in this economic statement has had the audacity to stand and say that the Conservatives have given Canadians a tax reduction. I do not know where the Conservatives learned their math. Under the Liberals it was 15%. It was increased by the Conservatives to 15.5%. It has now been decreased to where the Liberals had it, at 15%. It is similar to a store that has a 15% sale, but the store jacks up the price by 15%, then reduces it by 15% and calls it a 15% discount. That was the tax reduction.

On the GST, the current Minister of Finance, in his own words, when he was the minister of finance for Ontario, said he agreed with the then minister of finance, the member for LaSalle—Émard, when he said it was relatively useless. He also said that he agreed with the federal minister of finance. He said, “We have talked about this. All you get is a short term hit, quite frankly. It has no long term positive gain for the economy”.

That was said by today's finance minister on November 5, 2005, when he was the finance minister for the province of Ontario.

The current Minister of Finance also said that measures are relatively useless because it only advances consumer spending. The finance minister said, “That would happen in any event”. He said that he was more interested in cutting personal income tax because it is a more “direct stimulus”. The current Minister of Finance said that when he was minister of finance for the province of Ontario.

All the economists, even the Conservatives' own right-wing leaning economists, have stated that it is the wrong thing to do.

But let me tell members what Canadians, at least from my neck of the woods in the greatest city, Toronto, are saying. They are saying that there is six point something billion dollars that is going to be spread around at $100 or $120 per person per year. Why could that money not be allocated to the needs of the city?

In essence, the Minister of Finance is reducing an individual's GST, that is, if the individual spends money, by $120, yet the cities, which are in dire straits and need money to take care of roads, sewers and infrastructure, are having to jack up property taxes. He is giving them a break, supposedly, on the GST but the cities are having to raise property taxes for the money they need to keep the cities going.

Why could we not, as Canadians are saying, take that money and allocate it to the needs of the cities? It would be a great idea as a suggestion to the finance minister.

I would like to talk about education because not too long ago we met with the post-secondary students associations and they were concerned. The last thing students need is to graduate with a debt burden on their shoulders. They complained. We invested wisely through the Canada millennium scholarship fund. They are complaining that they should be supported and things administered in the same way Liberals did it, not in the way it is about to be changed.

What is upsetting is that in the statement there was zero money for post-secondary education. Students are the future of Canada. If we are going to be competitive we must have a smart society. A smart society is obtained through education. I am sad to say there was zero for education.

I chaired the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs and National Defence. Today's Minister of Veterans Affairs is on tape as saying at committee on the issue of agent orange that if the Conservatives were in government, they would take care of that right away.

It is fortunate that our country has been blessed. We made some tough decisions as the Liberal administration post-1993 and today we have moneys, thank God. Why not take care of the commitments that were made? If we do not do it now when the money is there, when are we going to do it? After all, with every day that goes by we lose one, two, three or however many veterans. This is the time for the Minister of Veterans Affairs to do what he committed in committee to do. The previous minister of national defence was at that committee as well. They said that they would do it immediately. It has been two years now. They have made movements toward it, but not in the way they promised.

The Conservatives ran on a fighting crime agenda in 2006. There has been almost zero money put into crime prevention programs. It is not about building jails as was outlined in the first Speech from the Throne when the Conservatives took office. The Conservatives said that they were going to build larger and bigger institutions. If the crime rate comes down, why do we need bigger jails? It does not make sense.

Today, two years later, we see record numbers. When I contested my riding in 2006, my opponent in the Conservative Party said, “We are going to wipe out crime. We are going to put them in jail”. Lo and behold two years later we have numbers that we have not seen in 10 years. Why are we not putting moneys into rehabilitation programs and addressing things at the early stages so we can prevent crime from happening?

Part of the problem is in our communities. The city of Toronto is looking at closing libraries and community centres. If we do not provide money for the cities, how can the cities keep the community centres, swimming pools, basketball courts, and volley ball courts open? Without the money, how can that library stay open? That is where young boys and girls spend time doing some reading, research, et cetera. If they do not have those facilities, they might be out on the street and God knows, they might get into mischief.

I am concerned that this economic statement has nothing for the wait times. That is an issue which really touches all of us from coast to coast to coast. Our health care system makes Canada stand out. According to all the professionals, wait times have gone up instead of down. The question is why? Supposedly, when the new government came in it was going to reduce and eliminate wait times. It has been two years. I have read the statistics and wait times have gone up.

I look forward to any questions.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that was a low point in the afternoon, I would have to suggest. The member started by pointing out that the NDP is to blame for the Liberal Party not being in government anymore. I would give Canadians the credit for voting that party out of government because I think that is where it is deserved.

The member said more than that. He talked about caring about student debt. Since when did the Liberals care about student debt? Student debt went up exponentially when the Liberals were in government. They care about property tax increases. My property taxes went up exponentially when the Liberals were in government.

I really need the Liberal Party to take a brief look at the Constitution because it clearly sets out that the municipalities are the responsibility of the provinces. That is why we gave so much more money to the provinces in budget 2007. He may like to read it. It is a good document.

We transferred a lot of money to Queen's Park. The city of Toronto, which the member is very close to, should march to Queen's Park, which is very close to Toronto, and they should say that they need some help. Maybe they should ask for some tax room, ask for some more money, or ask Premier McGuinty to give them a hand. They should not be coming to Ottawa. And they should not be saying that Canadians should not be given a tax cut which they rightly deserve just because the cities think it should go to them. Cities are the responsibility of the provinces. That is the first point.

The second point is that when the municipalities came to us last year, they said that what they really needed was an extension of the gas tax fund to 2014. If the member would read budget 2007, he would see that we gave them exactly what they asked for and not a penny less.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the member for Peterborough used the words, the “extension of the gas tax”, meaning that it was a Liberal program.

In terms of responsibilities, I do know that the cities are the children of the provinces, but Canadians are Canadians whether or not they are city dwellers. There is one taxpayer. We collect their money in the way that the province and city do. When one member in a family needs help, others in the family should extend that help.

I explained it to the member. Maybe he was not paying attention. The cities today in not having funds are having to raise property taxes.

The member is new and was not here, but I will inform him that when we took over from the then Conservative government, this country was unofficially bankrupt. It took us several years to balance the books, to eliminate the $42.3 billion deficit and to start paying down the debt. It was not until a couple of years later that we had money surpluses. What did we do? We had one-third tax reduction, one-third investment in the programs that Canadians wanted, such as the millennium scholarship fund, funds directed to students, and of course we lowered the debt as well.

The hon. member talked about coming to Ottawa. When he is next campaigning, I ask him to go to his constituents and tell them not to talk to him but to go to Ottawa, and I would bet he would not return.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Speaker, our colleague from the Liberal Party of Canada has provided us with a golden opportunity to briefly recall the September byelection in Outremont. The member just whined that the Liberal Party of Canada was overthrown and that the NDP was to blame. This is very revealing. It tells us that the Liberals believe they have some divine right to rule. Well, I have news for them. The results in Outremont will be reflected in many other Liberal ridings across the country. The NDP won 49% of the vote and the Liberal Party of Canada, 27%. I had to mention that.

In fact, the Liberals are competing with the Conservatives to see who can cut corporate taxes the fastest. At the same time, they are rising and saying how terrible it is that nothing is being done for forestry companies and manufacturers. The famous tax cuts do nothing to help a company that did not turn a profit and therefore does not have to pay any tax.

That is the Liberals' attitude. They are always ready to say anything. They signed the Kyoto protocol when they had no plan. As a result, they increased greenhouse gas emissions instead of reducing them. That is the Liberal record.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is the NDP that will say anything and promise anything, as they promised Canadians but when the member talks about the outcome, I want to remind the member that although he was not a member then, he should know that two out of three Canadians did not vote for that party.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Order, please. It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the question to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment is as follows: the hon. member for Don Valley East, Federal-Provincial Relations.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to Bill C-28, referred to as the budget bill, that is shocking in many respects in terms of its consequence.

We need to put this in the proper context and I will spend most of my time addressing the corporate tax cuts.

It is important to look back as recently as the budget of 2007 when the government came forward with a series of substantial corporate tax cuts over the next four years. In that period of time, the corporate tax rate would have dropped from 22%, which is where it was at the time, down to 18.5% by the 2011 budgetary period.

We then jump forward to the October-November period with the throne speech and to, what in the common parlance is being referred to as the mini-budget, the economic update statement.

What do we see? First we see in the throne speech that the Conservative government will reduce the corporate tax rate. However, when we jump forward to the mini-budget, all of a sudden that drop has become accentuated. It has become accentuated because in between the throne speech and the finance minister standing in the House, although I am not sure he actually stood in the House or did it some place else, he told the country that he would introduce even greater corporate tax cuts. Now we have the corporate tax rate by 2012 going to 15% as opposed to just six or eight months ago the proposal that by 2011 would have been fixed at 18%.

What happened in that couple of weeks, maybe a month, between the throne speech by the government and the mini-budget? We heard the opposition leader and a number of other members of the Liberal Party saying that we needed bigger corporate tax breaks. What we had was the government of the day and the official opposition taking the same position.

What I find it most shocking is when I look at where the bulk of those corporate tax breaks will go. They will go to sectors of the economy that, quite frankly, do not need them: the oil and gas sector and the banking sector. A full 50% of every one of those tax dollar breaks will go to those two sectors.

In the figures that came out showing the profit levels of those two corporate sectors, banks were the highest. They made over $19 billion in profit last year and they will break $20 billion at the rate they are going this year, perhaps up to $21 billion or $22 billion. They will be getting a huge tax break because of the size of their profits.

We see similar figures, because of the international demand for oil and gas and the export rates at which we are selling it, that the oil and gas sector will get huge corporate tax breaks from this change that was very rapid. It was in less than nine months.

I come from a region of the country that has as its primary economic base the auto sector. In that same period of time, we saw thousands and thousands of jobs disappear from that sector and a substantial number of closings. We saw it again in some of the news reports this weekend, going through regions in southern Ontario, seeing auto parts supplier companies shutting down in large numbers.

It is estimated that over the last two and a half years--and this took place not just during the 22 months of the Conservative regime but a good number of the months when the Liberals were still in power, 250,000 to 300,000 jobs have disappeared in that sector and it is not finished.

When we look at these corporate tax breaks, 50¢ on the dollar will go to the banks and the oil and gas sector. What is happening in the auto sector? Actually, nothing is happening because there is very little profit. Even for the large manufacturers, the full-blown, primary manufacturers, particularly in the auto parts sector, there is very low profit, if any at all, because so many of them are going bankrupt or at least going out of business before they go bankrupt.

Those corporate tax breaks will do nothing for the auto manufacturing sector, whether in the parts sector or in the primary manufacturers.

In roughly that same period of time, when we jumped from giving the substantial corporate tax breaks to, in the latter part of the year, even more substantial corporate tax breaks, we see in just six months a 7% drop in the auto parts sectors in terms of its productivity. Those are the exports going out of the country.

In the same period of time we wonder what the government has done. We constantly hear the Finance Minister say that he is giving a tax break. It has already been shown that those are useless. He says that he has accelerated the ability to take write-offs on machinery. If we are not making any money and have no profit to write these off against, those write-offs are useless also.

This is not anything new being heard by the government. Both the manufacturers and the auto parts sector have told it repeatedly what is happening.

What do we need? We need those corporate tax cuts reduced dramatically and that revenue, which would have come in, used to help the auto parts sector get through this. We are hearing that it needs $400 million immediately in the form of loans. It would be in that form, not a tax break because that would not do any good, and not with write-offs because that would not do any good. The sector needs loan guarantees and outright loans to allow the auto parts sector to purchase equipment that will allow it to be more productive, more competitive and be able to put people back to work.

Are we seeing that? Absolutely not. The Conservative government has refused to do anything in that regard. We have seen the province of Ontario step in and the province of Quebec step in with direct assistance because manufacturers are in a crisis. This is not something where we can talk long term policy. For example, if we do this, that will happen eventually. We are away beyond that. By the time that happens we may have lost the auto sector in this country.

I say that advisedly. I have lived in the community of Windsor all my life and, for the first time in the last two and a half to three years, I have become convinced that at the rate we are going with our trade policies and with the kind of economic policies we have seen, both from the Liberals when they were in power and now from the Conservatives, which have policies that are almost identical, we are at serious risk of completely losing, by eyesight 20:20, our entire auto sector.

That is a shock because the auto sector, and nobody can debate this, is the sector that drives the entire economy in this country. By and large, in comparison with any other sector, it is the major driver, and both those political parties are prepared to sacrifice that because of their belief in free trade agreements, which do not work in that sector, and by economic policies that have no benefit to the auto sector whatsoever.