Debates of April 27th, 2007

The Environment

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the minister did not understand my question. I will try again.

This government did not keep its word on the environment. On Tuesday it voted in favour of the Bloc Québécois motion to set absolute targets for reducing greenhouse gases, but today it is sticking to the ridiculous idea of intensity targets, which is not a real constraint, because with technological innovations they are being achieved anyway.

Does the minister realize that he is thereby giving the oil industry an advantage by choosing the polluter pay principle to the detriment of Quebec, which will be achieving its targets on time?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform]

Mr. Speaker, our policy is clear. For the very first time, Canada is forcing industry to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions and atmospheric pollutants. We will impose mandatory ceilings on industry in order to cut industrial atmospheric pollution in half by 2015.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, not only does the minister's plan not fully recognize past efforts, but it also mortgages the future. Quebec's new environment minister, Line Beauchamp, said the greenhouse gas reduction plan was disappointing, and she is worried that Quebec companies will pay the price because they will not have access to the international credit trading system.

Does the government realize that its plan goes not only against environmental interests, but also against the interests of Quebec?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for his question, but unfortunately, he is wrong.

Our plan is a realistic plan. It is a balanced plan. It reduces greenhouse gas emissions by 20%. That is a real reduction. Under the Liberals, for 13 years, the greenhouse gas emissions continued to climb and went up, up, up. Ours are going down, down, down.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, because of the minister's ideological stubbornness, Canada will not meet the Kyoto objectives, and Quebec, which is well on its way to meeting them, will be penalized in 2012 because the Kyoto protocol provides for penalties for those, like Canada, who are dragging their feet.

Can the government guarantee that Quebec will not have to pay a single cent for the inaction of the government and of Canada?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I am really surprised that the member did not notice that after 13 years of Liberal inaction, greenhouse gas emissions had risen 35% above the Kyoto target.

We will reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The Liberals caused them to go up. Our plan is that they will go down by 20%. That is dramatic. That is 150 megatonnes of reduced greenhouse gas emissions.

Afghanistan

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has refused to admit that his Minister of National Defence has become a liability to soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan. The daily changing story and the chaos that the minister has created are surely grounds for dismissal.

However, it gets worse. For over a year, the NDP has been asking Correctional Service Canada for information on the officers who supposedly report on Afghan prisons and prisoners but DFAIT and DND claim no knowledge of this and have produced no documents.

How is it possible that three government ministers have three stories and none of them match?

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform]

Mr. Speaker, when the opposition continues to make false allegations and repeat false allegations there is no wonder the story keeps changing. Every day we get a false allegation and then we must chase it down and put the facts on the table.

When we keep answering false allegations with facts there is obviously a change in the story.

If the Liberals and the other opposition parties would stop repeating and misstating falsehoods, we would no longer have this issue of changing stories because the straight truth would be coming from one source, this government.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is the government's story and information that keeps changing every day in question period.

Correctional Service Canada has told us that it will release the documents requested today or Monday but it will not matter because the access coordinator has told us that the whole document will be blank.

This is outrageous. The story would not keep changing had the government simply told Canadians everything. The truth will set them free.

Why does the government continue to confuse Canadians? Why does it not simply tell us what is really going on in Afghanistan?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, it is fascinating to hear a member of the NDP say that there was no document about our officers going over there.

When we sent out the press release about our officers going over there, I thought the NDP members would be so proud of our corrections officers putting themselves in harm's way to go into these facilities that they would be asking for more detail. I also thought they would want to know more after I talked to the media in Afghanistan. It has been published in newspapers in Canada but I thought they would want to know even more. However, they did not ask one question about what our officers were doing over there. They believe allegations promulgated by people--

[The Deputy Speaker, Bill Blaikie]

The hon. member for Saint Boniface.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Mr. Speaker, first we were told that the Red Cross would ensure that detainees were not tortured, but the Red Cross said that was not true. Then the minister told us that the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission would do the job, but again not true. Then the minister suddenly announced, out of thin air, that he has a new deal, but again not true. Then the Minister of Public Safety stands up and says that now Correctional Service Canada is doing the job, but again that is not true.

When will the government tell the truth, stop changing its story and fire its incompetent Minister of National Defence?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, as we saw yesterday, when the Liberal accusations were proven absolutely false and we asked for an apology, we received nothing.

Now the member stands and says that it is not true that corrections officers are in those facilities. That is true. I said yesterday that they had made 15 visits. They have now made 17 visits.

I would like him to stand and take responsibility for false allegations and say that he is sorry. Those officers are there. I want him to stop maligning our corrections officers and our troops. Will he please do that?

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the apology should come from the minister.

On Monday, the Prime Minister said that detainees were not being tortured. Tuesday, he said that a new agreement to ensure their protection was unnecessary. Wednesday, however, the Minister of National Defence concluded an agreement, first with the Kandahar government, and then with the national directorate of security. Thursday, the Prime Minister said that he was still working on that agreement and that our Correctional Service officers had been able to see prisoners from the beginning. We all know that this is not the case.

What is going on? What stories will they make up for us today?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, he is again repeating things that are simply not true.

It is the responsibility of all members, whenever they say something, especially something as important as the name of our soldiers and our federal corrections officers, to not continually repeat false statements.

I would like the member to rise and apologize, and to say that he supports our soldiers, the very brave men and women who are on this mission.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Canada-Afghan agreement on the transfer of detainees prohibited Canada from transferring detainees into a condition of torture and inhumane treatment.

Why did the multiple reports of such treatment not immediately set off alarm bells in the government? Why did the government ignore those reports, deny those reports, censor those reports or falsely characterize them as Taliban reports when these reports were coming also from the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission?

The facts were clear. Our responsibilities were clear. Why did the government dissemble rather than implement our responsibilities?

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Secretary of State (Foreign Affairs and International Trade) (Sport)]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member talks about reports. In fact, there were five reports and four out of five reports were given to the previous Liberal government. What did the Liberals do with those reports? They did absolutely nothing. They implemented a policy one month before Canadians fired them.

When we became the new government, we took hold of that policy, implemented it and enhanced it.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government's entire conduct this week has been a pattern of contradiction, misrepresentation, misinformation and disinformation, and it is still continuing, and, at its core, undermining the very integrity of the Afghan mission and our responsibility to protect our own soldiers.

Why is the government seeking to blame everybody else but refuses to accept responsibility for its own action or inaction? Why does the new government not finally act as a responsible government and implement our responsibilities under the Canada-Afghan agreement and under international law? Why does the government not act responsibly?

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Secretary of State (Foreign Affairs and International Trade) (Sport)]

Mr. Speaker, it is Canada's new government that has acted responsibly with respect to Afghanistan.

What Canadians deserve to know is why it is the Liberals in the opposition continually take what the Taliban, the alleged terrorists, have to say to be the gospel truth but when Canadians, brave Canadian men and women, say something they ignore it.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, over the past few days we have been treated to a real festival of contradictions. First, the Minister of National Defence called in the Red Cross and then the chair of the Afghan human rights commission. Then there was a new agreement; then there was no agreement. The latest is that Correctional Service Canada is there. However, they do not have the mandate to monitor the prisoners.

If the government were truly dedicated to the troops and the Canadian mission in Afghanistan, then would the suitable story of the day not be the resignation of the Minister of National Defence?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, the Correctional Service Canada officers are there to help improve the conditions in the prisons and in other institutions, to help train the Afghan officers to work in the prisons and also to verify and ensure that there is no torture. They are there. They have made a lot of visits and they will continue to do so.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, while the story keeps changing to suit the Minister of National Defence, the abuses continue.

If, as the Prime Minister claims, the government has the interests of the troops at heart, what is he waiting for to stop transferring prisoners and dismiss the minister?

[Stockwell Day, Conservative, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, there are two things that have not changed. First, our commitment to see conditions improve has not changed, and we are seeing improvements. These are slow improvements. It is a third world system over there but we are seeing improvements.

The other thing that has not changed is the continued flow of false allegations, where members opposite prefer to take testimony from those who are suspected terrorists, some of whom have been instructed and trained to lie, and they run with that. They will insult our military. They will automatically say that the suspected terrorists must be telling truth. They should start believing our troops.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the level of disinformation that this government has reached this week on the issue of Afghan prisoners is quite unacceptable. We have heard a myriad of unlikely stories. This government, which campaigned on openness and transparency, has used every form of manipulation.

What is the government waiting for to pull itself together and put an end to this culture of secrecy that seems to be its trademark?

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Secretary of State (Foreign Affairs and International Trade) (Sport)]

Mr. Speaker, again, how many times must we ask the opposition why it listens to the Taliban and chooses to believe that what it says is the absolute truth? The Taliban, the alleged terrorists, are the people who are there to kill our brave men and women.

Opposition members might just want to think about that and might just want to give our Canadian brave men and women the benefit of the doubt.