Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to the motion introduced by my Bloc Québécois colleagues. I would like to begin my presentation with a little economics 101. The minister who spoke a little earlier today quoted some so-called great economics experts, telling us that if we were to implement the Kyoto protocol, the price of gas would skyrocket. We saw the Minister of Industry indulge in the same sort of accusations during the last election campaign, when he blamed environmentalists for high gas prices. We saw the Prime Minister and the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities—we have heard from nearly every Conservative—repeat the same old song and dance. Now, they are trying to justify all this with so-called serious economical analyses.
We should have another look at the basics of economic and market concepts. I am surprised to hear remarks of this nature coming from the Conservatives, who are the so-called apostles of the free market and who are supposed to have full confidence in market forces. Today, they are repeating the same old song and dance. Why are they making these awful statements? Because, in economics, there is one basic principle: the law of supply and demand. I remember learning this principle as a child in school, in secondary IV in Quebec, in economics class. It is rather simple. There is the supply of a product and the demand of a product. When the supply of a product increases, prices drop and vice versa. As for demand, if the demand goes down, prices will obviously go up. If demand goes up, the price will drop. Actually, no, it is the other way around. Well, you get the idea.
My point is, the oil companies understand this law of economics very well. This is proven by the fact that, as the demand for petroleum increases in North America and around the world, we see oil companies close refineries in the United States and elsewhere in the world. Clearly, they are doing this in order to reduce the supply and drive prices up, thereby increasing their profits. They have understood this very well. When the time comes to meet the demand, this principle of supply and demand must apply.
If we implement the Kyoto protocol, if we decrease our consumption of energy and oil, if we decrease demand, contrary to what the minister told us today and to what the entire government constantly repeats, prices will not increase. They cannot increase if demand decreases; the opposite will happen.
I was pleased to hear the member for Cambridge confirm this just a few minutes ago when he told us that he believes that the only way to reduce the price is to decrease demand for oil. I find it difficult to understand how he can support a government that refuses to respect the Kyoto protocol whose ultimate objective is to decrease our consumption of and dependence on oil. There is a real problem: supply is too low and, above all, consumption is too high. We are also facing a situation where there is evidently a problem with competition.
Once again, it is somewhat surprising to see the Conservatives put obstacles in the way of those who would like greater transparency and more competition, when they should be advocating for free markets and utter and complete competition. As a result, oil companies now have profit margins—just in refining—of 23¢, whereas most experts say that refining margins of 5¢ to 7¢ would be enough to guarantee reasonable profits.
The factor we are discussing today is oil refining. We know that retailers are not making a fortune. They make just a few cents per litre. Competition among retailers is fierce—there are often three or four at a single intersection.
We also know that at the other end, at the first stage of production involving the crude oil market, prices are hard to control because we have no say in what happens on the world market. Then the oil is shipped here. Once again, we have little control over this factor. However, when it comes to refining, we do have some control over that.
Today, I was surprised to hear the minister answer our questions by saying, “Yes, but the refining margin in the U.S. is now 26¢”. Is knowing that the Americans are being swindled even more than we are supposed to comfort Quebeckers who buy gas and oil? That is not very good news, but obviously, his answer is not satisfactory. We need more than that. Let us be serious. We are talking about 23¢ on one part of the cost of gas. There are taxes, the cost of crude and transportation, and the retailer mark-up, but the problem is with the refining margins.
In Canada, there is a near-monopoly on refining. For example, as my colleague explained earlier, there are six players in all of Canada. Six players controlling an entire market is not a lot. However, at a more local level, all of the oil in the Atlantic provinces is refined by the same company. In Montreal, there are two, and in Ontario, there is a certain number as well.
At the local market level, there are often very few players, perhaps even just one player, and oil companies get along so well that they sell oil to each other depending on their geographic location. It is clear to me that the motion we have introduced in the House today includes the bare minimum we can do to increase competition.
What is the government afraid of? This motion is calling for greater powers of investigation to be given to the Commissioner of Competition. In past reports, the commissioner indicated that he did not have the authority to investigate this matter. On the one hand, he cannot initiate his own investigations and, on the other hand, he does not have the power to compel documents or to compel or protect witnesses. In a word, he does not have the powers necessary to do that kind of work.
The Conservatives claim that there is no problem. If that is so, if there is no collusion and no near-monopoly, why would the government oppose our motion? Our motion would expand the powers of the Commissioner of Competition, which he could use properly. If he conducted investigations and concluded from them that all is well—which I doubt, as do most motorists in Canada—then, the issue would be settled.
The reason the Conservatives oppose this motion is really because they do suspect a problem. They can well imagine that, if the commissioner investigated and had full power to do so, he would bring out to the open a situation that is far from ideal and clearly not to the advantage of consumers.
Naturally, the short term solution is not only that this motion be adopted, but also that the government act on it and give more power to the Competition Bureau, and as soon as possible. In the medium and long term, the Kyoto objectives will have to be met and even exceeded for our consumption of oil to diminish, which in turn will reduce the demand for oil and the pressure on oil prices.