Debates of June 5th, 2007

Immigration and Refugee Protection Act

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we started out well when the member described me as his good friend. It kind of went downhill from there, unfortunately.

I know the member tried to seek unanimous consent for that motion last week, but my understanding was that he did not do any negotiating ahead of time, so it took everybody by complete surprise.

The good news is the motion introduced at the committee, the report on stopping deportations of undocumented workers until a new policy was in place, a motion that New Democrats put forward, was approved and reported to the House. The member for Trinity—Spadina moved concurrence on that several weeks ago. It was debated in the House, and it will come to a vote tomorrow night.

Therefore, we will be able to see exactly who in the House supports ensuring that undocumented workers, who make a huge contribution to the Canadian economy and who are absolutely necessary to the functioning of the Canadian economy, can stay on the job. We will also see who is supporting their families being able to continue the important contributions they make to Canadian society. That opportunity is coming up tomorrow night.

The member for Trinity—Spadina has a very keen interest in the situation of undocumented workers. I know from her work in Toronto that she has been incredibly supportive of those people and has done a lot of work to recognize their contributions and the contributions of their families to Canadian society. I am glad she took that initiative. We will have the opportunity to act in the House on the recommendation put forward by the NDP.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the purpose of the bill is to prevent vulnerable foreign workers, including strippers, from being exploited or abused.

I understand my New Democratic colleague has said it does not go far enough and he has given all kinds of examples, which I suppose he is free to do in committee. However, let us think what this stemmed from. The previous Liberal government gave blanket exemptions to foreign strippers to work in Canada, despite warnings that the women were vulnerable to forced prostitution and other forms of exploitation.

These amendments would give the authority to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration to instruct immigration officials to deny work permits to foreign strippers.

Notwithstanding that my colleague says it does not go far enough, and he has the right to raise that in committee, what is wrong with that general principle?

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, what is wrong with it is the job essentially has already been done. The initiatives were started by the previous government and are continued by the current government. As I said, back in 2004, 423 such permits were issued. Last year, there were only 17. The bill would really add nothing to the protection of foreign workers in Canada.

As the Canadian Council for Refugees said in its press release:

Only a handful of work permits have been issued to “exotic dancers” in recent years. Parliamentary time would be better used to address the broader problem of the exploitation of non-citizens in Canada.

Bill C-57 does not do it. It is a waste of our time. In this corner, we cannot support it for those reasons.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to join in this important debate on Bill C-57, An Act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

First, I thank my colleague, the hon. Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, for having the foresight and integrity to propose this important and badly needed amendment. It takes courage to turn back the clock and go back to what spawned this whole issue.

We had a Liberal government in place for 13 years. It had a policy that allowed strippers, foreign nationals, to come into Canada under a blanket exemption. Canadians found this completely abhorrent, that we would allow foreign nationals to come into Canada where more often than not they were exploited sexually. Therefore, I really admire the minister's courage for having undertaken this very small but significant step.

A number of hon. members have already spoken about the need to protect foreign nationals, who may be vulnerable to exploitation and abuse through their application for temporary work permits in Canada. I commend those speakers for their participation and I am hopeful they will all support the legislation.

We just heard from members of the NDP. They do not support the legislation. They do not support putting up some safeguards to ensure that foreign nationals going into the stripping industry do not get into Canada. They would like to see them come into Canada first and then deal with the problem after the fact.

At first glance, this issue may appear to be quite simple to some. However, it is not that simple as there are many dimensions and perspectives which add to its overall complexity. This is evident by the number of stakeholders who are involved and affected by this matter. In fact, many of those stakeholders have appeared before various committees of the House. Naturally, each one has a different approach to a solution to the problem. However, I believe they all agree on one thing, and that is a comprehensive approach is needed to significantly reduce the risk of exploitation of foreign nationals, including exotic dancers who are seeking temporary work in Canada.

I believe Bill C-57 is the responsible, measured and accountable approach to the problem of sexual exploitation of foreign nationals and the whole issue of human trafficking, which I will get to in a moment.

As other members have already pointed out, a number of countries have adopted similar legislation to ours. If we talk to stakeholders who daily provide assistance and support to those who have been victimized, I believe we will find them agreeing with the old adage that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. That partly addresses the comments we just heard from the members of the NDP, who suggest that we let them come into the country and then create all kinds of social programs to try to help them.

I urge those who have doubts about the legislation to talk to the ultimate stakeholders in this matter, the victims. Women and children who have been trafficked from around the world are being victimized time and time again.

I want to talk about a colleague of mine, the member of Parliament for Kildonan—St. Paul, who has taken the whole issue of trafficking of human beings very personally. She even introduced in the House a motion which asked governments across Canada to move forward in addressing the whole issue of human trafficking. I was privileged to speak to that motion. Bill C-57 is simply one small but significant response to that cry for help from the victims of human trafficking. Kudos to the member for Kildonan—St. Paul for taking this issue on.

I had a chance to sit in on one of the meetings of the Status of Women committee. Numerous stakeholders involved in the whole issue of human trafficking provided testimony. Their stories really touched our hearts, people who have been victimized to their core and not only once, but time and time and time again.

What is interesting is the fact that not only are foreign nationals being trafficked into Canada. Canadians, usually Canadian girls and women who in some cases go into the modelling industry, end up going abroad to places like Milan. Suddenly they find themselves involved in the whole issue of sexual exploitation and are trafficked. It is very unfortunate. It is something that occurs around the world, and we have to address it immediately.

When I listen to the stories of the victims about how they were abused and exploited, I cannot understand how Canadians can not do something about it. It is unconscionable that we in Canada are not going to take some concrete steps to address this issue. If we were to ask the victims, if they would be willing to repeat their experiences, we know what their answer would be.

Bill C-57 would provide the government with the authority to save individuals from such a fate of victimization at the hands of human traffickers. It would also strengthens our ability to protect Canada's immigration system from being abused by traffickers and shady immigration consultants, those who know there are vulnerable victims around the world who can be abused, especially here in Canada.

Without the authority of this bill, a gap will continue to exist in the legislation that governs our immigration and visa system. That gap must be closed. I suggest that not doing anything about this problem would be abdicating our responsibility as government, as Canadians. That responsibility is to ensure the safety and security of all individuals within our borders and those who come to our borders.

I know some members may be concerned that such additional authority could lead to an abuse of power. An abuse of power on whom, the victims? More likely it will be the traffickers who are upset that we have interfered with their business. This is not an issue of abuse of power. We are dealing with pimps and human traffickers who abuse human beings.

In response to that allegation, the legislation once again proves that our new Conservative government is committed to being open, transparent and accountable when we bring forward legislation like this. We are being open in the sense that any denial of entry by foreign nationals must be based on clear public policy objectives and evidence that backs it up. We are also being transparent in that any decision by an immigration officer to refuse a work permit to a foreign national would require the concurrence, in other words, the agreement, of a second officer.

Finally, the proposed legislation will introduce accountability, as well, in that the ministerial discretion to deny work permits would be published in the Canada Gazette and reported in the annual report to Parliament on immigration.

The days of the Liberals' strippergate scandal are over. Canadians were horrified when that scandal occurred. They asked how it could happen in a civilized country. Today we are closing the door on that.

To demonstrate our government's commitment to being open, transparent and accountable, I will quote immigration lawyer Richard Kurland. He said:

What is absolutely striking about the new government's approach, unlike the former government, the new government is going through the front door. I have never seen this in 15 years of immigration policy a very controversial plan that has [been] brought before Parliament. Normally, in years past, it was done behind the bureaucratic doors, or through a [fait accompli] regulation with no public debate. That's what's remarkable to day [for immigration policy].

Those are the words of Richard Kurland, a noted immigration lawyer. He made those comments on The Verdict, CTV Newsnet, May 16, 2007.

That was our commitment to openness and accountability, and that is exactly what the bill will do. Canadians know what they are getting from a new Conservative government.

Some of my colleagues have already referred to positive and supportive remarks made by representatives of several stakeholder organizations. In many cases they represent those organizations that actually intervene on behalf of the victims of human trafficking. They intervene on behalf of those foreign nationals who, one way or another, come into Canada and are now being exploited sexually.

I would like to reiterate the support we have received from key stakeholders concerned with the very important issue of human trafficking. For example, Irena Soltys, who is the co-chair of the Stop the Trafficking Coalition, said the following:

Stop the Trafficking Coalition supports [the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration's] announcement regarding changes to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act to protect vulnerable workers. Included in this are women that may be exploited as exotic dancers and forced to work as sex slaves...Canada, as an international human rights leader, owes them the protection they are entitled to.

Sabrina Sullivan of the Future Group said:

--[the] Immigration Minister has taken an important step to protect women from sexual exploitation and end a program that made Canada complicit in human trafficking. It is clear that [the Prime Minister's] government is serious about combating human trafficking.

John Muise, director of public safety for the Canadian Centre for Abuse Awareness said that Bill C-57 was “part of the response that needs to occur in terms of protecting women and children in this country”. That was from CTV Newsnet's The Verdict of May 16, just this past month.

Then, of course, we have the Salvation Army, which also welcomed the May 16 announcement of these proposed amendments to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. Christine MacMillan, territorial commander of the Salvation Army in Canada and Bermuda, said:

This announcement is an excellent advancement towards the protection of women from sexual exploitation. It is another positive step in the fight against human trafficking, and we are encouraged by the leadership shown by the Federal Government.

That is from no less an organization than the Salvation Army. I think all of us in this House can agree that the Salvation Army has spent not only decades but a couple of centuries addressing the issues of human poverty, of addiction, and of people who are in deep distress and need and in many cases are being exploited. The Salvation Army supports our legislation, Bill C-57.

It is interesting that even some in the adult entertainment industry support this bill. They are the ones who are mostly likely to be hurt by this. They may have fewer resources available, at least initially, to be able to carry on their business, but some of their members have actually expressed support with what we are moving forward with, which is to address the root causes and the issues that arise out of human trafficking around the world. As Canadians, we do not want to be complicit in assisting human traffickers to ply their trade in our country.

It is clear from the support of these key stakeholders that this legislation is not only important but essential to help deal with the very serious problems associated with the abuse and exploitation of vulnerable foreign workers.

Canada's government is taking real action to help prevent the exploitation of women and children, while protecting other foreign workers who could be subject to the same kind of abuse and exploitation here in Canada at the hands of our own traffickers.

Facilitating human trafficking by permitting foreign strippers into the country, regardless of whether they could be potential victims of abuse, is not acceptable. In Canada we do things differently. We respect human rights.

Canadians are justifiably proud of our worldwide reputation for fairness. It is unacceptable to allow the situations of exploitation that existed under the previous Liberal regime to continue.

I am pleased to hear that the Liberal and Bloc members apparently have seen fit to support our legislation, although some of the comments from the Liberal benches are really paying lip service to this bill.

[An hon. member]

The bill is too skimpy.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

The member across the way says the bill is too skimpy. It is one small but significant step in the right direction. The bill does exactly what the motion of my colleague from Winnipeg did, which was to ask this House and governments across Canada to support efforts to stop the trade of human trafficking.

Unfortunately, we have heard the NDP speak out against the legislation. The member for Vancouver East and the member for Burnaby—Douglas have spoken out against it. That is unfortunate. I would ask NDP members how they square their current position with the previous commitments of their own NDP colleagues such as, for example, the member for Winnipeg Centre, and even their own leader, the member for Toronto—Danforth. I would like to quote those members. It is instructive.

For example, the NDP member for Winnipeg Centre said the following about the appalling record of the former Liberal government:

The door is still wide open for the type of wholesale exploitation that existed with the eastern European dancers, and in reality the minister of immigration is still pimping for the underworld.

He went on to say:

Five successive ministers of immigration have been pimping for the underworld by providing an endless stream of fodder for the underworld of pornography and prostitution under the guise of legitimate dancing.

Whose comments were those? They were from the NDP's own member, in the Winnipeg Sun of October 30, 2005.

With respect to the previous Liberal government's allowance of a visa for exotic dancers, this blanket exemption, the NDP member for Winnipeg Centre also said:

I condemn the government for allowing this program to exist. I cannot believe how callous and uncaring it must be.

That is pretty categorical, I would suggest, coming from an NDP member.

Even the leader of the NDP, the member for Toronto—Danforth, said the following about the so-called exotic dancer program that resulted, of course, in the Liberal strippergate scandal:

Now the government might not any longer be pimping for the sex industry, and that is a good thing, and it never should have been doing that in the first place.

In light of these previous statements by the leader of the NDP and the NDP member for Winnipeg Centre, I am very disappointed and quite surprised that the NDP now has chosen to oppose Bill C-57. That is shameful. How can they flip-flop like that?

I would ask the NDP to reconsider its position, recognizing that our Conservative government is taking real and necessary action to deal with this important issue, which is something the previous government failed to do.

I appreciate having the time to share my feelings on this issue.with my colleagues here in the House. I strongly support Bill C-57 and I know that my government does. I know that members from some of the opposition parties do as well. As for those members of this House who still do not support it, I ask them to reconsider.

We as Canadians take pride in protecting the most vulnerable in our society, our children, the disabled and, yes, foreign workers who are being trafficked around the world, who want to come into Canada and ply their trade here.

Let us make sure this does not happen. I urge all members to do the right thing and support quick passage of Bill C-57.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my comment and question are for the member for Abbotsford. The reality is that the problem has to a large extent been solved and there are quite a few problems with this proposal.

However, since the member is from Abbotsford, let me say that dealing with issues like this really takes oxygen and the time of the House away from issues such as those he should have some concerns about given his moralistic stance.

This relates to the Mennonites. Approximately 50,000 Mennonites went from Canada to Mexico. The position of his government on this particular issue, which I hope he has a chance to influence, is that the Mennonites who went to Mexico had religious marriages and church weddings. Many of the Mennonites did not have a civil ceremony in Mexico. The situation is that derivative citizenship, which affects tens of thousands of them, is not passed on to the offspring of Mennonites who had a church wedding but failed to have a civil ceremony.

The Conservative government has indicated that it is going to be dealing with issues related to lost Canadians. Mennonites fall into a category, but the government has said that in dealing with the problem of lost Canadians it is not going to deal with the problems of Mennonites who lose derivative citizenship because they did not have a civil ceremony while they had a religious ceremony.

I know that the member comes from an area that has a fair number of Mennonites. I would like to ask him what is he going to do to get his government, supposedly the champion of religious institutions, to stop discriminating against religious marriages, which affects approximately 50,000 Mennonites with regard to their derivative citizenship.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for recognizing the Mennonites and the role they play in Canada. I happen to be a Mennonite. I do not know if the member knew that, but I am. I understand very well the issue of the Mennonites who left Canada and went to Mexico. I understand this particular issue.

Unfortunately, the member mischaracterized our government's position on this. It is unfortunate that he is trying to introduce that issue into something that is quite different, which is the trafficking of human beings into Canada, which is of course in Bill C-57.

What is even more disappointing in the member's question is that he refers to the debate we are having in the House today on the trafficking of human beings into Canada as taking oxygen and time away from the House, as if the issue of human trafficking is insignificant and not worthy of the House's consideration.

I think the member is going to have to reconsider those comments. I do not believe that is what he intended to say, but we have to clarify that point. Today's bill addresses the issue of trafficking human beings from other countries into Canada and then those trafficked victims being exploited in Canada. The bill addresses that. We as a government are getting things done.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say to my colleague that he may have gone too far in his attack on the member for Kitchener—Waterloo. My colleague from Kitchener—Waterloo makes a non-partisan contribution to the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, and what he was saying was completely accurate.

I would like to ask the member who had the floor about Canada's existing legislation against trafficking. Can he explain what provisions for trafficking already exist in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and in the Criminal Code? Could he explain what is not working and what the new bill would accomplish? I would also like him to explain why Canada has still not ratified the migrant worker convention, which would ensure that the rights of workers are better protected.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this bill, of course, is not a migrant worker bill. This bill actually closes a loophole or a gap in our laws that address the issue of temporary worker visas for those who come from other countries.

Under the current legislation, which was not changed by the previous government to close this particular loophole, the minister has a positive discretion to allow people to come into Canada. What is not in the legislation right now is a negative discretion, and I believe the member knows that.

We are trying to specifically address the plight of those who are being exploited right within Canada. We as a government made a commitment not only legislatively but financially in our last budget to address the issue of human trafficking within Canada. We can only do so much within Canada. What we can do, we are going to do.

We are going to follow through with it because there are people in Canada from around the world who may find themselves in poverty, in difficult circumstances, who human traffickers can get their claws into. There are a few countries around the world who will pay a lot of money to have these victims brought into their country where they will be exploited.

I have yet to find one Canadian who, when the bare facts are laid out and there are no politics at play, will say they do not want this to happen. I would venture to say that most sensible Canadians support this legislation. They do not accept human trafficking in Canada and they want us as a government to do everything possible to fulfill the commitment that we made to address this scourge across our country.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to continue on the line of questioning that the member was just addressing and that is the international realm of this problem.

We all know, of course, that human trafficking is a problem not only in this country but in other countries as well. I am reading a report that has to do with organ harvesting and it is somewhat of a grizzly situation that we are encountering. The efforts to combat it are working internationally.

My question to the member is this. How would this type of legislation be helpful to other countries? How would this possibly send a message to other countries that are dealing with the same problems and are possibly even involved in human trafficking? How can we send a message that this is going to stop and that Canada is going to be at the forefront of that direction?

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question because he raised an issue that I was hoping to raise in my initial speech but did not get around to it because of time constraints.

My colleague is right. Canada has an opportunity to be perhaps a beacon of hope around the world. In fact, we are known around the world as being one of the great defenders of human rights. Our Prime Minister has gone out on a limb to defend human rights around the world. People around the world are taking note of that.

Foreign workers are being brought into Canada in an attempt to exploit them through a so-called legal process. When other countries take note of what Canada is doing in the way of stopping this, they are going to say that Canada is doing something right. They are going to say that we are standing up for human rights and protecting the most vulnerable in our society. They are going to say that Canada is sending a message for them to do the same thing.

This is a good news bill. We are sending a strong message to the rest of the world that we are going to be a beacon of hope.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to join in this debate.

Let me say that at the citizenship and immigration committee there has been a real lack of legislation coming to us from the government.

We recently dealt with Bill C-14, the international adoption bill. Even though the government made a lot of hay about recycling a bill that was before the House under the Liberal government, it has held it up for well over a year. We have very few bills coming before us in committee.The committee, nevertheless, has been spending a great deal of time dealing with very serious issues that need to be addressed.

The bill that is before us today is probably the least serious of something like over a dozen issues that we have identified as a priority. We are disappointed that we are essentially dealing with a bill, the political theatrics of which tries to delve into a problem that for the most part has been solved. We are also concerned about the moralistic tone it takes on.

If the government wants to speak in code to its supporters and say it is against strippers, I would suggest that it introduce a bill in the House to amend the Criminal Code and put forward that amendment. It should not try to be moralistic with back door bills to try to solve a problem which, for the most part, has been solved as far as it pertains to strippers being able to come into this country.

I want talk about some of the other issues that we have been dealing with. We have been dealing with undocumented workers. This has been raised in debate. It is a problem that has been before the government and the government has chosen to ignore it.

When we deal with the issue of undocumented workers, instead of 10 visas that might have been granted in 2005 for strippers, exotic dancers coming into the country, we are talking between 200,00 and 500,000 people who are working in the underground economy because of the dysfunctional nature of our current points system that determines who gets to come to Canada.

I say it is dysfunctional. We need people in the building trades. They cannot get in under the points system. There are many other occupations in which we have a shortage right across the country, and those people cannot come to Canada under the points system.

We heard talk about agricultural workers. It was not too long ago, up around Abbotsford, where the previous speaker comes from, where we heard about members of the Indo-Canadian community getting killed, not on the work site but getting to the work site. It shows us to the extent that agricultural foreign workers are not protected.

We heard about the challenges for live-in caregivers, their working conditions, and how they are virtually indentured to work for an employer. We do not have regulators. We do not have inspectors checking out their working conditions.

We hear about employers being charged every once in a while in very spectacular cases, but the reality is that we are not doing enough to ensure that those people are protected.

Getting back to this bill and getting back to my challenge in terms of talking about stopping strippers coming into this country and using the Criminal Code to outlaw stripping, if it is unacceptable for foreign workers, surely it would be unacceptable to Canadian workers. I do not think the government really has addressed that.

Luckily, I have checked the media and this bill received the kind of coverage that it deserved. For the most part, most major media have dealt with the bill as a political bill, a moralistic bill, and really quite a joke.

The Canadian Council for Refugees says the bill does not address the issue of dealing with trafficking in human beings. As a matter of fact, it falls far short. It essentially says:

The government’s focus on “strippers” betrays a moralistic approach. Instead of passing moral judgment, the government should work on ensuring that non-citizens’ rights are protected and that they have the freedom to make informed choices about their own lives.

The bill fails to address the root problem of the existence in Canada of jobs that humiliate and degrade workers. Work permits can only be issued by visa officers after the employer’s job offer has been validated by Human Resources and Social Development Canada (HRSDC). Why is such work available in Canada if it humiliates and degrades workers?

If Conservatives really believe what they are trying to do, I say to them to pick up my challenge and come in with a bill that addresses that particular industry.

I mentioned there are many issues we have been dealing with at committee and one of the issues was lost Canadians. I drew particular attention to what is happening to the Mennonites in terms of their derivative citizenship. I find it rather sad that a party opposite which has the member for Abbotsford, who is a Mennonite, the member for Edmonton—Sherwood Park as well as the President of the Treasury Board, that they have not brought the plight of the Mennonites to their caucus. They have not had their government make any changes that are so very necessary.

As I said before, the basis of denying derivative citizenship to Mennonites who move from Canada to Mexico is solely on the fact that these folks, with a church wedding, failed to have a civil wedding. Can members believe that? People get married in a church in Mexico and their marriages are not recognized by the government and we deem their offspring to be born out of wedlock.

That is a terrible smear to put on the Mennonites. I really hope that those members, who I have named, will speak up in their caucus and make this a priority issue because it is having an impact, not just on one, two, three or 10 families, but it is having an impact on thousands of people in this country as well as tens of thousands of people who are being denied their rightful derivative citizenship in Mexico. They have ties to Canada but they are told they were born out of wedlock and therefore, they are not entitled to Canadian citizenship.

The other group we dealt with, a group that is of great concern to me, particularly when the government talks about supporting our troops, was a group of war brides and their children. For those who do not know who they are, they are the wives our Canadian soldiers met overseas in Holland, England or someplace in Europe when they were fighting for this country in the second world war. We had just under 70,000 war brides and their children's citizenship is at risk, particularly if a child was born out of wedlock.

While the government promised that it would bring in amendments, those amendments do not apply to these folks. It is not going to apply to Canadian veterans of the second world war who we have been honouring as a nation because the government does not see it as a priority.

At the citizenship and immigration committee we listened to heart-wrenching stories about how people are fighting for their birthrights because they have found out, after living in this country for over 60 years, that they are not citizens and the government refuses to move on that and to change the legislation.

I spoke in the House about Joe Taylor, the son of a Canadian veteran who went to Europe to defend this country and help defend western civilization. He met his girlfriend in England. They were involved and she became pregnant. When Joe Taylor Senior went to his commanding officer to ask for permission to marry, his commanding officer said no because he was going to France to fight and that Canadians did not want to be responsible for widows.

Mr. Joe Taylor Senior went to France and fought but after the war, luckily, he went back to England, married his wife and brought her and their son to Canada. However, because Joe Taylor Junior was born out of wedlock, the government refuses to recognize his citizenship.

Joe Taylor Junior took the refusal of the government to court and, on September 1 of last year, Justice Luc Martineau ordered the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration to give Mr. Joe Taylor his citizenship. The judge said that the ground cited by the government that he was born out of wedlock contravened section 15 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The fact that there was an obscure regulation that a person had to apply to retain citizenship if born out of the country, violated section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is the section on fundamental rights.

What did the government do, the supposed defender of our soldiers? On September 26 the government withdrew the court intervenor program, which the House dealt with.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order, I have a tremendously high regard for the member and I know he is very passionate about the things of which he is speaking, but I am wondering if there is relevance to the bill that is under debate at this point.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

I thank the hon. member for his point of order and I am sure the hon. member for Kitchener—Waterloo will come back to the topic under discussion. While I am at it, I would advise the hon. member that there are five and a half minutes left in his time.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if the member were here for the earlier part of my speech he would know that I was talking about some of the important work we have been doing in the committee, how we rank them in priorities and that this legislation would not have made our priority list in terms of what we see as important to get done.

In any event, the government got rid of the court intervenor funding program that allows Canadians to access justice based on the merit of their case and not the size of their pocketbook.

After the government got rid of the program, it turned around and appealed the decision. In appealing the decision, when it asked for an injunction against the court order it also told the court that if it were to lose at the Federal Court of Appeal that it would take it to the Supreme Court.

For the average Canadian to get to the Supreme Court has crippling costs as they relate to having to pay the legal fees. In terms of trying to bring in legislation that has relevance and could unite Canadians, we have a piece of legislation that must have been co-authored by Jimmy Swaggart and plays to a moralistic base.

We will be dealing with this bill before us in committee but I want to alert members on some of the important issues that we are dealing with, and will be dealing with in committee, and that relate to the lost Canadians.

A book entitled Voices of the Left Behind, is a particularly good book dealing with children overseas who are now in their 60s whose fathers were Canadian soldiers. One case that is of particular interest is the case of Mr. Willy Van Ee who is the only status Indian in Holland. He has his recognition as a status Indian but he does not have Canadian citizenship.

If we want to deal with issues pertaining to trafficking in human beings, what we should be doing is taking very seriously the proposals brought out by the Canadian Council for Refugees. If that is the intent of the legislation, it does not do it.

In spite of all the rhetoric that we get from the government side, this legislation does not address those issues. As I read into the record as to what the Canadian Council for Refugees had to say, it will be one of the important groups that will be coming before the committee to give us input on this particular legislation.

In wrapping up I make a plea to the government side to try to bring in legislation that is immediate, that has priority and that has relevance. Also, if the government wants to be moralistic, it should amend the Criminal Code and bring it before the House, instead of trying to do through the back door what it cannot do through the front door.

As I said, the bill will come to committee and, as the parliamentary secretary will attest, the committee works diligently on all bills that are brought before it and we look forward to much relevant legislation coming to our committee where we can make meaningful changes to the operation of both the Canadian Citizenship Act and the Immigration Act because they are very much needed.

We look forward to much relevant legislation coming to our committee and that we can make meaningful changes to the operation of both the Citizenship Act and the Immigration Act because it is very much needed.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for West Nova, Afghanistan; the hon. member for Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, Saint Hubert Airport.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I was listening to the member speaking with respect to what should have been this bill but he talked pretty much about everything else except this particular bill.

I think it is a diversionary tactic in some measure but I cannot help but mention, with respect to the lost Canadians, that while the previous government was in office for 13 years, and while he was there as a parliamentary secretary and chair of the committee, none of these problems he raised were addressed. For the first time, they are being addressed by our minister in a constructive way and continue to be addressed with proposed legislation.

I just want to quote what some people had to say. Mr. Chapman said, “Obviously there are a lot of things in there that please me. Overall it's a wonderful start. This is a jump forward”.

Another person with whom the member will be familiar, Charles Bosdet, said, “It's the most extensive proposal by far of anything that I know of proposed for the Citizenship Act in the last few years short of actually rewriting the entire Citizenship Act”.

I find it quite interesting that he would think that the legislation before us is a joke. Certainly the previous government permitted foreign strippers into the country regardless of whether they could be potential victims of abuse or exploitation.

I wonder what the member has against legislation that is aimed at preventing temporary foreign workers from being abused, sexually exploited or becoming victims of human trafficking. How dare he say that it is not a significant issue of importance. Many groups have indicated that this type of legislation is long overdue.

Sabrina Sullivan of The Future Group said:

Immigration Minister...has taken an important step to protect women from sexual exploitation and end a program that made Canada complicit in human trafficking.

It is clear that [the] Prime Minister['s] government is serious about combating human trafficking.

She called the exotic dancer program, which existed in the previous government since its inception, “an international beacon of exploitation that eased the way for human trafficking of vulnerable young women”.

The member for Winnipeg Centre said that the door was wide open for this type of wholesale exploitation that existed with eastern European dancers. He said that in reality the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration was still pimping for the underworld and that it was five successive ministers in the previous government.

How dare he say that this is not an important issue to those who are vulnerable and that it should not be addressed?

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I wish the parliamentary secretary had heard my whole speech where I essentially said that the problem has largely been solved. It has been quite properly ridiculed in the media for the political nature of what it is trying to do.

As I mentioned, in 2005 the number of strippers coming into Canada was down to 10. It therefore is certainly not the raging problem that the member wants to talk about. If he is looking for a Conservative connection, let me refer him to his previous government, the Conservatives under Barbara McDougall. The problem was much greater but the reality is that the previous Liberal government, for the most part, solved the problem.

As the Council for Refugees would say, the government's focus on strippers betrays a moralistic approach. Instead of passing moral judgment, the government should work on ensuring that non-citizens' rights are protected and that they have the freedom to make informed choices about their lives.

In terms of his reference to the lost Canadians, both the present minister and the previous minister, since they came into office, had no intention of doing anything. The reason they are doing something is because the committee brought in people to talk about their problems and the heat became too much.

I am very pleased that the government has responded but it still falls short and that is what is very important. It falls short in the case of the Mennonites and it falls short in the case of the war brides and their children. The government is dishonouring, by its lack of action, the service that our men and women rendered to this country when they put their lives on the line in the second world war.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would simply like to make a comment, if I may.

There is literature available on human trafficking, on international crime in particular, that presents every kind of trafficking in the world and a portrait of the victims of these crimes. It also explains the pros and cons of the various measures on trafficking taken by different governments.

It is important to note that prevention programs, like the ones the Conservative government is getting ready to announce, often discourage immigrants from taking the legal route to get work, or discourage them from filing claims.

This may be the solution to processing the backlog of cases in the workers category. However, this will not get women out of their precarious situations in their home countries, where charlatans find sources of potential trafficking victims: women and children.

A number of countries are reacting by fighting this scourge with stricter immigration policies. Practice has shown that this does not necessarily improve the economic situation of women or make them less vulnerable. It also makes things easier for smugglers and traffickers, who find the market increasingly lucrative.

In my opinion, we have to work on the conditions that are conducive to trafficking. That is important. It is therefore necessary for the bill to be considered in committee so that we may debate it. Then we could hear from people who work in the field of international crime, and again table our amendments based on these premises.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I already dealt with the parliamentary secretary from the official opposition.

I agree totally with the critic for the Bloc, who has done wonderful work in the committee and she is one who fights for human rights and the rights of women to be free from exploitation. What we have to understand is when we are dealing with the whole problem of trafficking, we are committed to working with the international community. The bill does nothing to address that.

I think we will greatly benefit from the paper from the Canadian Council for Refugees on its proposal as to how we might do that. In that sense I hope something will come out of this legislation, which I expect will go to committee.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with passion to what my colleague had to say. I know of the work that he is doing in committee.

When we talk about the case of Joe Taylor and the other cases that are held in abeyance because of Joe Taylor, if I were to seek unanimous consent from the House for this case to be dealt with immediately, I am sure he would agree with me.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I certainly would, and I dare say I would imagine all the opposition members would agree with the member. The question is would the government? I am sad to say no because the Conservatives do not match their rhetoric with action when it comes to supporting our soldiers.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

We are under questions and comments. I think I heard a member ask for unanimous consent for something or other. I think I heard the hon. member for Kitchener—Waterloo say no. Therefore, there is no unanimous consent.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I did not say no.