Debates of May 28th, 2008

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, the member opposite is making an assumption that is nonsensical, and that is some sort of fifty-fifty balance must be achieved on every budget item. Of course there are some budget items that favour some people in certain occupations, for example, truck drivers who happen to be more commonly male than female. The gender analysis shows that, yes, it is a more male gender favourable tax provision. Then the government has to decide whether to do it or not. Then there are other tax provisions that are more favourable to women as a group than to men. Therefore, these are matters that we look at during the course of the budget preparation.

However, to make the assumption that there is some kind of magic fifty-fifty here is out of touch with the world.

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am not looking for fifty-fifty, but I am glad to hear the minister admit that despite the propaganda that this is supposed to help low income Canadians, it does not, especially women. It is good to get that on the record.

The other thing that has also hurt women is the $1,200, which is supposed to be a universal child care program. In fact, it does nothing for the average woman, especially single parents. It does absolutely nothing for low income women to get back to work. Again, it hurts. The lower the income, the less money they get, so this is very detrimental.

Has the minister received a proper gender based analysis on this and what did he do about it?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Yes, Mr. Chair, it has been the subject of a gender based analysis, as all proposals are.

The member will be interested to know that the proposal will be of principal benefit to women. About 65% of the estimated increase in GIS and other income tested benefits and credits due to TFSA savings will go to women. Neither TFSA investment income nor withdrawals will affect eligibility for federal income tested benefits and credits; that is there will be no clawbacks. As I say, the analysis shows that this will be of principal benefit to women.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, could the minister tell us who is the highest spending finance minister in Canada's history?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Yes, I can.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, will he admit that he is the highest spending finance minister in Canada's history?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, is he allowed to call me “he”?

[An. hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Yes.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, that is good. I am establishing a pattern here. Is the minister against putting a price on carbon?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think we all realize that carbon is ending up priced in our economy. That is a reality.

We are opposed to a massive new carbon tax. So is the premier of Ontario, by the way, who is disagreeing with his little brother there on the benches opposite.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, is the minister aware that his government estimates that the price on carbon under its mandate will go up as high as $65 a tonne by 2018?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am aware that there are at least two approaches to this. Our approach is to regulate industry in Canada and we mean all industry in Canada.

This is something that was mused about by the Liberals when they were in government, but of course they did nothing. There was a 30% increase in greenhouse gas emissions while they were in government and now they propose to bring in this dramatic massive tax on ordinary Canadians, on the expenses people have to endure day by day--

[The Assistant Deputy Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The hon. member for Mississauga—Erindale.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, now that the minister has admitted that he wants to put a price on carbon, let me read for members what the environment department says:

For the majority of individual Canadians and for businesses outside the regulated sectors, these costs will be most evident in the form of higher energy prices, particularly with respect to electricity and natural gas.

Does he agree with that?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, I agree with the suggestion by the Liberals that a carbon tax, which they want to impose on Canadians, will be a massive, punitive tax increase, particularly for people with fixed incomes, for seniors and pensioners.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I guess his non-answer is an answer. He agrees with the document that says the government's plan will be putting higher prices on electricity and natural gas. What does the Minister of Finance intend to do to offset that for vulnerable Canadians?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, I do not agree at all with the assumption and the preface to the question.

What we know is that this government has an approach in which we are going to regulate to control greenhouse gas emissions. We have already made that clear. We are going to regulate all the industries in Canada. That is an important approach by our government. The opposition, the Liberal Party, has a different idea: a massive tax grab from Canadians.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to get this straight. Does he not agree with the Ministry of the Environment document that says the government's plan will increase costs for electricity and natural gas? I want to get this clear. Does he not agree with this?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have no idea what piece of paper he is waving around.

I can tell the member this: we will not be imposing a massive new carbon tax on Canadians, particularly Canadians with fixed incomes. If he is concerned about the economy, he should think about the manufacturers and think about the costs that this will mean for them. This is a sector that needs help. It does not need more taxation.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, just so the minister is aware, this is a document that was issued in March 2008 and is called “Turning the Corner: Taking Action to Fight Climate Change”.

[An hon. member]

Who published that?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, it was published by the Department of the Environment. It states that, on average, national residential electricity prices can be expected to rise about 4% by 2020 and natural gas prices by about 2%.

Does the minister agree with that? If that is what he is doing, what does he plan to do about offsetting the cost crisis?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, there is a point the hon. member is trying to make there somewhere. I cannot find it in his haystack over there.

The reality is that the approach of this government is to regulate all industries. The approach of the Liberals is to bring in a massive new tax. We like our approach. We do not like their approach.

[The Assistant Deputy Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

There are 20 seconds left, so we can have a 10 second question and a 10 second response.