House of Commons Hansard #101 of the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.
Michael Ignatieff Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Mr. Speaker, it is not just about the minister, or the former minister.
At noon on Monday, standing next to the President of Ukraine, the Prime Minister claimed that the Couillard affair was not a security issue. However, the night before, on Sunday, the misplaced documents had been returned. The Prime Minister's Office should have been aware of that on Sunday evening.
When the Prime Minister denied the sad reality on Monday, was he being incompetent or was he hiding the truth from Canadians?
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Again, Mr. Speaker, we have said quite clearly what took place. The Prime Minister became aware of the fact that the documents had been placed in an unsecured area and had been left in that unsecured place on Monday afternoon. At that time, action was taken immediately. The minister of foreign affairs tendered his resignation and that resignation was accepted by the Prime Minister.
Michael Ignatieff Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Mr. Speaker, again, telling the House that a gross security breach was discovered on a Sunday night and there was no action until five o'clock the next day is just not credible.
The government is either guilty of incompetence or a cover-up. There is no other alternative. The confidence of Canadians in our security procedures has been damaged. We need some honest answers in order to rebuild their confidence.
How can the government possibly fail to create an open, public inquiry to get to the bottom of this mess?
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, I have stated many time in the House, and it is not going to be news to anybody now, that the Department of Foreign Affairs is conducting a review of the matter. It will examine what has taken place with the documents and whether there were any security issues related to that.
Obviously it was a breach of the rules. The rules are important and that is why the minister paid for that with his resignation.
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Mr. Speaker, federal officials retrieved the documents from Madame Couillard's house on Sunday afternoon. Yesterday the ex-foreign affairs minister issued a statement that said:
I informed the prime minister of my resignation...as soon as I became aware of a security breach...
Yet, the government House leader insists the Prime Minister only found out for the first time on Monday at 5 p.m.
How can anyone believe that the all-controlling Prime Minister was not briefed about something this explosive between Sunday afternoon when they got the documents and Monday at 5 p.m.?
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, the sequence of events is quite clear. The Prime Minister became aware of the documents having been left in an unsecured area on Monday afternoon. Action was taken immediately. The foreign affairs minister tendered his resignation and the resignation was accepted.
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Mr. Speaker, the government's version of this story is as full of holes as Swiss cheese.
The secret documents left behind at Ms. Couillard's home were returned on Sunday, 24 hours before the Prime Minister says he became aware of the situation. These documents went missing some five weeks earlier, but no one mentioned that to the Prime Minister.
Will he stop taking us—and the Canadian public—for a bunch of fools?
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, not at all. The facts are quite clear. The Prime Minister became aware of the problem with the documents left in an unsecured place. That was a clear violation of the rules. He became aware of that on Monday afternoon, and action was taken immediately.
Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Mr. Speaker, there is a very strict procedure for handling secret government documents. First, such documents are numbered and kept in safes at the government department and at the minister's home, when the minister takes such documents home. What is more, such documents are transported in a locked briefcase. The department ensures that the documents are returned to the safe daily.
Is that the procedure the Department of Foreign Affairs follows for all departmental documents?
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, I believe the leader of the Bloc Québécois is somewhat confused about the difference between departmental documents and cabinet documents.
Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Mr. Speaker, I am not confused at all, but there are those who are trying to confuse matters. He is the champion at it.
I think the rules were indeed followed and that it was known early on that the documents were missing. The minister may not have noticed—he does not notice much anyway—but one thing is certain, the Department of Foreign Affairs, the Privy Council and the Prime Minister, who controls everything, knew.
Are they not hiding the truth and did they not know from the start that the documents were missing? It does not make sense that it took five weeks to notice this, because that is not how things work in a modern state. It is impossible.
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, he is quite agitated, but what happened is what happened. As soon as the Prime Minister learned of the breach, as soon as the foreign affairs minister made him aware of that on Monday afternoon, action was taken.
Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC
Mr. Speaker, according to the government, it only learned about the disappearance of the documents lost by the former foreign affairs minister when they reappeared on Sunday, at the same time that Julie Couillard was recording her interview. Once again according to the government, the minister did not know they were missing for five weeks. Given the strict rules about such documents, that does not seem plausible.
Will the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons admit that the government's version is nothing but a big cover up for party purposes?
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, not at all.
Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC
Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons said yesterday that security regulations were to be strictly followed. It is completely impossible that the Prime Minister did not know the documents had disappeared and that he had not questioned the former foreign affairs minister on the subject.
If the Prime Minister knew, why did he hide the truth, if not to cover up his own government's incompetence?
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, there was a serious breach of the rules. That is why the foreign affairs minister tendered his resignation. That is why that resignation was accepted by the Prime Minister on Monday. It is an unfortunate turn of events, but that is, indeed, what took place.
With regard to any lingering questions there may be, those are all being examined by the Department of Foreign Affairs in its review. I am quite satisfied that it is capable of doing that. If it feels the need to draw on resources of other agencies of government, it can do so.
Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC
Mr. Speaker, the former foreign affairs minister had a bad habit of leaving confidential documents all over the place. Our defence critic even saw this happen on a commercial flight to Europe.
The member for Beauce was a minister for 286 days. That is a lot of confidential reports, cabinet documents and top secret memos.
My question is simple. Are all the documents—not just those from the Department of Foreign Affairs, but all the documents—that were in the possession of the member for Beauce accounted for? Was a comprehensive investigation carried out to ensure that no other secret documents are missing?
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, as I indicated many times by now, the Department of Foreign Affairs is conducting a review of this, which should be able to determine if there are any other issues outstanding. However, we do know that the documents in question were in fact returned by Madame Couillard to the government.
Thomas Mulcair NDP Outremont, QC
Mr. Speaker, the minister read and physically tore pages from a briefing book, a secret briefing book, on a commercial flight in full view. It is not just his department that is involved, it is all cabinet documents. The RCMP must investigate for any other security breaches.
He may be gone, but the gaffs and diplomatic faux pas keep on coming. The Prime Minister's Office was just forced into a diplomatic backtrack after stating that the Italian prime minister had decided to lift combat restrictions on Italy's forces in Afghanistan. The problem is it just is not true.
Are they so isolated in Afghanistan that the Conservatives have to invent allies for their misguided war?
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, we have 46 allies for this very important mission in Afghanistan. For some time, one of the things that we have been encouraging some of our allies to do, allies who have restrictions on their troops, is to lift those restrictions wherever possible.
We think that would be a good thing to assist in our cause in Afghanistan, one that has been endorsed once again by Parliament, notwithstanding that the party over there did not want it happen. I understand that members of that party do not want to see our troops free to do their jobs there, but we want to see them there. We want their allies helping them as much as possible. We are glad that the Italian government is looking into that possibility with regard to the Italian forces.
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Speaker, in sequence, the government's claims in the matter of the ex-minister were: one, we do not meddle in the personal lives of the ministers; two, this is a national security issue so we cannot talk about it; three, now that we look ridiculous, we do damage control.
With so many danger signals surrounding the foreign minister's involvement with Madam Couillard, it would be irresponsible for any government to not involve security agencies to review the matter. If I might say so, the departmental inquiry into this matter is absolutely not adequate to get the answers. To end the cover-up we need, nay, we demand, a public inquiry--
Foreign AffairsOral Questions
Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform
Mr. Speaker, while the hon. member is neighing over there, I have indicated several times to the House, and I think the hon. member was paying attention, that we have asked the Department of Foreign Affairs to conduct a review of this matter. It will do so.
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Speaker, the ex-minister first told everyone in Canada that he became aware on Sunday afternoon of the breach and then advised the Prime Minister on Monday. In the second statement, he says that he actually became aware on Sunday and that as soon as he became aware, he actually advised the Prime Minister. Which is it?
The fact is, according to the now ex-minister, the Prime Minister ought to have known--and not just ought to but must have known--by Sunday night that there was a breach. What was he doing on Monday afternoon that he did not want to take seriously any of these serious questions?
