Mr. Speaker, I rise in my place because I have been listening with interest to the debate and the comments of my friend from Orangeville and others who I have known in other assemblies and other places and since my existence in other assemblies seems to have become a matter of some interest.
I do want to reflect on this issue since I have been a member of this place and a member of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and having spent the better part of my public life in elected assemblies of one kind or another. Obviously all of us read the decision of the Ethics Commissioner with a great deal of interest and a great deal of concern.
I want to state for the record that there is a lot of talk on the other side of someone having been found guilty. What the commissioner in fact found was that there was a contravention of the code, as she interpreted it, made in good faith by the member for West Nova, who is a parliamentarian of great standing and goodwill, and that is recognized.
I think all parliamentarians would recognize that there is a problem with making the connection between a “liability”, which arises, according to the judgment of the Ethics Commissioner, of any lawsuit and saying that any lawsuit gives rise to a liability; the mere existence of a lawsuit gives rise to a liability; the liability gives rise to something that is called a private interest; and the private interest then creates the conflict.
With great respect to the Ethics Commissioner, I think that the House itself has to now give real consideration to this. I do not think there is any argument with the efforts that the commissioner has made to be faithful to the code as she has seen it. However, I do have a great deal of difficulty with the notion that any libel suit that is carried out against a member of Parliament for whatever purpose, or with whatever intention in mind, should necessarily have the effect of denying that member the ability to carry on his or her responsibilities as a member of Parliament.
There is a brief reference in the commissioner's judgment to the possibility of a chilling effect but, with great respect to the commissioner, that chilling effect has been somewhat underestimated.
It is important for us to be as precise as we can as well about the exact recommendation that is being made by my colleague, the member for Scarborough—Rouge River, whose interest in these matters is extensive and whose knowledge and interest in questions of the privileges of members of Parliament is quite extensive.
What we are simply asking is that there be an exemption when it comes to the question of a private interest and that exemption would consist of being a party to a legal action relating to actions of the member as a member of Parliament. It is important for the public to understand that if any of us have private businesses and we are sued in the course of those private businesses, that issue that should becomes an issue of concern in terms of declaring what one's private interests are.
However, to assert that because the member for West Nova was sued by the former prime minister of Canada because of comments he allegedly made on the Mike Duffy Live program, in direct connection to the events surrounding the relationship between the former prime minister and Karlheinz Schreiber, which has been a matter of direct interest to all of us and a direct interest to the member for West Nova in his parliamentary responsibilities, and the idea that the very existence of that lawsuit, whatever its foundation may happen to be, should itself prevent the member for West Nova from carrying on his parliamentary responsibilities, he should recuse himself from any votes and recuse himself from any participation in discussions affecting this question of broader public interest, I have some real difficulty with that and, frankly, surprised by the members of the Conservative Party. This is not an issue that is related to the Conservatives, the Liberals, the New Democrats or members of the Bloc.
It is not a partisan issue. It is an issue that affects all of us as members of this House. And that is why we must speak openly about the possible consequences of legal action against a member because of his or her work. It could compromise members' abilities to exercise their own judgment as well as their full participation in public debates, which is an important aspect of the lives of all members.
As opposed, perhaps, to some of my other interventions in this place, this is not an intervention that is made by pointing fingers at the other side. It is made by simply asking this question. Is it not at least a possibility that the effect of this ruling would be to say to businesses or others, who are affected by debates in the House, that if they want to silence member of Parliament X or member of Parliament Y, there is a very simple way to do it, and that is simply to sue the member for something either he or she allegedly said or did not say?
In the eyes of the commissioner, the simple existence of the lawsuit, whether it has been heard by a court, according to the commissioner, creates the liability, which creates the interest which creates the need to disclose and which, in the case of the member of West Nova, creates in her judgment the need for him to recuse himself from any further discussion.
I believe that this touches on the responsibilities of members of Parliament and, frankly, touches on the question of how certain powerful interests, which can afford lawyers, lawsuits and to do this, can look at this ruling and say that here is the way to shut down, here is the way to stop so and so from saying anything and here is the way to stop so and so from participating in the debate.
What we are saying in our recommendation, in terms of the amendment to the code, is where lawsuits arise, not from our private activities, or our business activities, or our commercial activities, or anything else we might be doing with our lives, but from the exercise of our responsibilities as members of Parliament, we should not be prevented from participating in the life of Parliament as a result of those lawsuits.
The amendment proposed by my colleague, the member for Scarborough—Rouge River, is reasonable. It should be discussed by all members of Parliament and should be dealt with on that basis. We need to spend some time this evening reflecting on this as we go forward.
I am somebody who has been sued, although I have no live ones going on at present. I can assure everyone it has taken place in the past, as it inevitably does in this hurly, burly life that we lead in politics. It is a simple fact of life that these things happen.
If we are to do our jobs, it is very hard for us to see how the commissioner's ruling can be maintained as a ruling that will, in a sense, control our daily lives. I think there are charter implications for what the commissioner has said. She is stretching the definition of what a real liability is. Anybody suing somebody, could say now there is a liability, not knowing whether that claim is real, or serious or based in fact.
It would be wiser for us to say that where we are exercising our duties as members of Parliament, the mere existence of a lawsuit against us as members of Parliament for doing our job as members of Parliament does not create a liability and therefore does not create a conflict.