Debates of Oct. 23rd, 2009

Second Reading

[The Acting Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

I hate to interrupt the hon. member, but I would ask the group of members of Parliament to take their debate into the lobby. It is very disturbing for the member who is trying to make her interventions.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Madam Speaker, Bill C-290 proposes a costly refundable tax credit related to shortfalls in pension plans with a potential estimated cost of about $10 billion per year. This Bloc proposal would not be good pension or economic policy. It would not be fair to the taxpayers of the country.

This Bloc proposal essentially suggests that corporations and big businesses be let off the hook from the important responsibility to properly manage their pension plans and to control risks. This is because in a situation like Bill C-290 plan sponsors may exercise less due diligence knowing that benefits are backstopped by the government through a refundable tax credit.

The fact that these corporations and big businesses would not be required to contribute anything whatsoever to cover the cost of the refundable credit would worsen that potential. The Bloc proposal not only would be costly for taxpayers, it also would raise fairness issues, given that the costs would be borne by all taxpayers and it would only benefit a minority of those participating in the pension plan.

What is worse, the Bloc proposal would place on the federal government's shoulders the responsibility for providing compensation for all pension plans that were unable to meet pension obligations, even though only about 10% of all pension plan members participate in federally regulated plans. Since the provinces are responsible for the protection of pension benefits for plans sponsored by provincially regulated employers, this makes little to no sense.

This Bloc proposal is undoubtedly not the best way to promote the security of pension benefits. It would undermine sound pension policy objectives and be unfair to taxpayers. It would reduce incentives for employers to properly fund and manage their pension plans. And it would place the responsibility on the federal government for providing compensation for provincially regulated plans.

This Bloc proposal also ignores our government's comprehensive agenda to improve the retirement savings system and provide tax relief to pensioners and seniors since 2006. For example, as part of Canada's economic action plan, we increased the age credit amount by $1,000. This is on top of the $1,000 increase in the age credit amount.

That is why, to improve incentives for Canadians to save, our government has established the landmark tax-free savings account, the TFSA, what BMO Financial Group called “the single most important savings vehicle since the introduction of the RRSP in the 1950s”. The TFSA will assist Canadians in meeting their retirement savings goals by allowing investments to grow tax free. In this respect—

[The Acting Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

Order. The member's time is up. Resuming debate. I recognize the hon. member for Richmond—Arthabaska to close the debate.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am not surprised, but at the same time, I am flabbergasted. What I just said may be contradictory, but I cannot get over hearing yet another Conservative member talk about the supposed cost of the measure in Bill C-290. The Conservatives have been coming up with figures like $10 billion a year since we introduced what was then called Bill C-445. But they have never proven that this measure could actually cost that much.

One thing is certain, though: by shaving two points off the GST, this government is willing to sacrifice $12 billion to $13 billion a year, yet it is not willing to shell out any money to help retirees who have been cheated.

That is why I ask that this bill be sent to committee. I want the Conservatives to come with their figures and prove that this measure would cost that much. I did my homework. According to the economists we consulted, it would not cost anywhere near the ridiculous figure of $10 billion a year.

I want to see the Conservative Party prove its claims, prove how much it will cost, and show up in committee to discuss this file and this bill. If amendments need to be made or if any measures need to be added in order to correct anything that does not make sense in terms of sound management, we are prepared to look at it all together. I have always said that I am very open in that regard, but at the end of the day, we must do something to help those retired workers who have been cheated.

Nevertheless, I must thank the members who have spoken in favour of Bill C-290, which would provide a refundable tax credit to taxpayers whose employer has failed to contribute to their pension plan. My colleague, the hon. member for Sherbrooke, spoke earlier about the Jeffrey Mine in my riding in Asbestos, and about Atlas Steel and the people of Sorel-Tracy. I prepared this bill with their help, along with that of my colleagues from Chambly—Borduas and Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour.

I think it is important to point out that there are new facts in this matter. More and more people are becoming aware of this problem of workers losing their pension plans. On Wednesday, the leader of the Bloc Québécois, a number of colleagues from my party and the two other opposition party leaders—the Liberal leader and the NDP leader were there as well—took part in a demonstration by thousands of retired employees of Nortel and other companies, who came here to call for change in the pension plan system, which is not protecting them properly. Unfortunately, I did not see any representatives of the Conservative Party there, and, as we heard again today, they are claiming that Bill C-290 would cost far too much. As I was saying earlier, this same government, by cutting the GST by 2%, is depriving itself of $12 billion to $13 billion a year.

I am challenging the Conservatives to vote in favour of my bill to refer it to committee and to prove their claims about the cost of this measure, which they have not done to this day in any of the speeches made since I introduced this bill for the first time in May 2007, when it was Bill C-445.

Bill C-290 is one of many measures proposed by the Bloc Québécois in response to the needs expressed by demonstrators who were on the Hill on Wednesday.

There are other measures: the federal government could put pension funds in trust. The federal government could reverse its decision to gradually raise the threshold for automatic review of foreign acquisitions to $1 billion and reinstate the $300 million threshold. It could raise the contributions ceiling to 120%. It could also give disabled workers insured by a self-insurance plan preferred creditor status.

Citizens themselves have already suggested several measures like these. I remember how, when we started talking about this bill, we were looking for ideas. We were wondering what could be done. It was not clear that something like a refundable tax credit, as it was presented, could be a solution. There did not seem to be any good solutions, but the president of the Jeffrey Mine retirees' sub-committee came up with this idea. Since then, more and more people have become aware of the situation, especially because of the economic crisis we are going through now.

I am proud to have introduced this bill, which is gaining support. As I have said, a majority of members of the House of Commons, the thousands of demonstrators on Wednesday and the 2,000 people who signed a petition in my riding support this measure.

Once again, I urge members of the House of Commons to vote in favour of Bill C-290.

[The Acting Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

No.

[The Acting Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker, NDP, Denise Savoie]

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Pursuant to Standing Order 93 the division stands deferred until Wednesday, October 26, immediately before the time provided for private members' business.

It being 2:23 p.m., this House stands adjourned until next Monday at 11 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 2:23 p.m.)