Mr. Speaker, I want to thank you for occupying the chair, because it is important to us to have a Speaker with a great deal of experience who follows the deliberations of the House and has a ready knowledge of procedure because he started quite young.
Today, you have a major issue before you that has to do not only with committees, but with parliamentary democracy in the House of Commons.
This is a serious issue. The Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan decided to conduct a study because it believed that there were serious allegations of torture and that the torture of detainees could quite definitely tarnish the image of everyone in Canada, including Quebec.
When we saw that the Military Police Complaints Commission kept quiet because the government put obstacles in its way, prevented people from testifying and refused access to documents, the committee felt that the situation was serious enough to warrant further discussion.
I intend to prove briefly that members' rights have been violated and that a serious breach of privilege and intimidation have occurred.
It all started when the judge advocate general from the Department of National Defence said during his testimony and in response to our questions that his relationship with his client prevented him from answering those questions. The judge advocate general's client is the government. Consequently, Canada's chief military judge was telling us that he would not go into detail in his responses because he could not.
Yet the motion I introduced in the Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan referred to a serious inquiry, but also to sections 37 and 38 of the Canada Evidence Act.The committee examined the study by the senior law clerk, Mr. Walsh, which gave us many opportunities to get to the bottom of this matter. He said that the government could not use national security to protect certain ministers from the repercussions of decisions that they perhaps should not have made.
We therefore decided to proceed. I even asked the chief military judge to give us his interpretation, to share my interpretation with his client, the Government of Canada, and to come back and see us again afterward. We are waiting for this interpretation, because we believe it is our duty to get to the bottom of this issue.
The committee was also muzzled when it was refused documents. This is a breach of our privilege. All the witnesses whom we have heard to date openly told us that they were given access to all these documents. They have not been made available to us. We are members of parliament. We are the representatives of Canadians, who have placed their trust in us. Elections were held in 308 ridings including 75 Quebec ridings and the Bloc Québécois today holds 48 seats in the House. These 48 members are accountable to those who voted for them. This responsibility is exercised in the House of Commons as well as in committee.
If I tell the constituents in my riding of Saint-Jean that we have been refused documents, they will wonder how we can carry out our investigation and get to the bottom of things. Refusing to provide these documents is a major obstacle and is tantamount to muzzling the committee.
The House has been told that the documents are being translated. The government mentioned legal documents. That means that the Department of Justice is reviewing these documents and that we will probably once again—I do not want to get too far ahead of myself—be provided with edited documents where even the dates have been blacked out and where only minor words such as ”thanks” at the end of a letter remain. I have already seen this.
We await these documents with much apprehension. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence says that the House of Commons and its precious time will be hijacked. I think we are entitled to do that. This is not some trivial issue. The probable torture of detainees is a very serious issue. As elected members we have the right to get to the bottom of this matter.
It is obvious that witnesses have been muzzled. Documents have been withdrawn from Mr. Colvin. He arrived without any documents.
The ones who came after in defence of the government all told us that there had been no problems and that there had been no torture. Getting information in committee is like pulling teeth; it is an ongoing battle. That is not how it should work. If this were an American parliamentary committee in the Senate or Congress, the members would have all the documents and would get to the bottom of the issue. That is what democracy is all about. It is not just about parliamentary democracy in this House, but about democracy, period.
The other point I wanted to bring up was the issue of parliamentary immunity. Mr. Speaker, you should know. The day we allow a government to intimidate witnesses and to prohibit them from testifying before committees will be a sad day. Committees can certainly summon witnesses with a subpoena, but when they are summoned by subpoena, what position are they in then? Their government is telling them that they will violate sections 37 and 38 of the Evidence Act and charges could be filed against them. However, if they do not testify they could also face charges for contempt. The witnesses are in an absolutely untenable situation.
Parliamentary immunity has always been important here in the House. There is a reason that the government keeps telling people to say what they have to say outside of the chamber. Here, we are immune to prosecution. But we should not get carried away. That is not what I am saying. I believe that immunity is important and that what is being said here should be said on the other side too.
If we are not allowed to hear from witnesses, if they are prevented from appearing or reappearing before us, and if we are not granted access to documents, there is clearly a problem. If legal issues are more important to the government than parliamentary issues, It will be up to you, Mr. Speaker, to decide. You have a very interesting case on your hands, and I have faith in the forthcoming ruling. As a committee member who has observed this whole matter take its course so far, I felt it was important to say that witnesses are being intimidated, our rights violated and our privilege breached. If we let this slide, the government will take charge of all decisions and committees will no longer have a say.
I would like to remind the parliamentary secretary and all governing party members on the committee that the matter before you was passed by a majority in committee. The committee passed it, and these issues were discussed. Now that we have reached an impasse, it will be up to you, Mr. Speaker, to decide. You have the wisdom of Solomon, and I am quite sure that the ruling will be favourable.