Debates of April 24th, 2009

Human Pathogens and Toxins Act

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Pursuant to Standing Order 45 the division stands deferred until Monday, April 27 at the ordinary hour of daily adjournment.

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I move that we see the clock as 1:30 p.m.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

It being 1:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

Atlantic Lobster Fishery

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

moved:

That, in the opinion of the House, the government should implement a program to reduce the effort on the Atlantic Lobster Fishery to ensure a viable industry for future generations with a lobster license retirement plan, and provide adequate funding to remove a number of lobster fleets from the water by cancelling licenses.

It is a pleasure to stand in the House today but I stand here with some great concern as the lobster industry is so vitally important for the Atlantic region and my riding. What must happen is we need to reduce the effort.

I have the privilege of representing a great area in Atlantic Canada in eastern Prince Edward Island, the riding of Cardigan that has been very kind to send me back to the House a number of times. It is an area that is heavily dependent on agriculture, fisheries and tourists.

Without a doubt, there are big problems in the fishery this year. There are also problems in the agricultural field. Potato growers and vegetable growers are having a lot of difficulty. However, in the fishing industry there is a problem. Over the years we have seen a decline in the species and in other species and because of this we have placed more emphasis on the lobster. This has placed great stress in the fishery and the landings have declined over the past years, especially in lobster fishing areas or LFAs which I represent.

I can recall, when I became involved in politics over 20 years ago, visiting different harbours across eastern Prince Edward Island. We have two different areas, 24 and 26A. Area 26A is referred to by most people in Prince Edward Island where I live as the south side.

When I was looking for the nomination in Cardigan, I was touring these harbours and talking to the fishermen. The catches at that time were somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000 pounds for a lot of fishermen, and that is great fishing. Now some of these fishermen catch 4,000 to 6,000 pounds.

We must remember that there is a major change in the cost of operating fleets now from the mid-eighties and the late eighties when I was talking to these fishermen.

I would like to quote from a presentation to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans that was presented on March 31 of this year at Pooles Corner presented by Bobby Jenkins representing the Southern Kings and Queens Fishermen's Association. It is so important that we get information, as we would say where I come from, the horse's mouth. The fact is that these people know what is going on and it was great to have my colleagues there. Mr. Jenkins said:

Let me give you a few examples of how our costs have increased and how our income has shrunk to dangerously low levels, a few examples of costs, say, 10 years ago and today. Item one is bait. Ten years ago it was 15¢ a pound; today it's 75¢ to 90¢ a pound. We use approximately 1,500 pounds a week. Multiply it by nine. Labour was $400 a week 10 years ago and it's $800 to $1,200 a week now, average 10 to 12 weeks. Fuel 10 years ago was 20¢ to 25¢ a litre; now it's 70¢ to $1.40 per litre. We use 200 to 400 litres per day. Insurance rates 10 years ago were $400 a year; today they are $3,500.

For docking fees, what one did 10 years ago was pull one's boat in and tie it up. Today people pay somewhere between $700 and $1,000. All these expenses add up. It takes from the bottom line.

Maintenance 10 years ago was $2,000; today, it's $5,000 to $7,000. A new propeller 10 years ago would cost $500; today it's $1,500 to $2,000. You could build a trap 10 years ago for $20; it's $60 now.

As we can see, the costs have skyrocketed over the past 10 years and, as was indicated at the standing committee, the prices have declined substantially. For example, the following was said at the standing committee:

Our lobster prices have been shrinking. In 2005-06, we received $5.50 a pound for canners and about $6 a pound for markets. In 2008, we received $4.25 a pound for canners and $4.50 for markets, with no rebates. In 2009, we have heard of prices of less than $3 a pound for canners and maybe $3.50 for markets.

The prices, of course, depend on supply and demand and lobster is a luxury item in restaurants.

With a reduction in fleets, there will also be a reduction in the requirement for the people who help. I want to indicate to the House that there is a lot more to this than the man who owns the boat and the captain involved. We have the people who supply the bait, people who drive the trucks and people who work in the factories. When a licence for the boat is taken out, the captain always had people who we refer to as the corps and these people will not have a job if this should work. This will work one way or the other. Either we will have no lobster left in certain areas or there will be a reduction in the traps in the sea.

I want to indicate to the government and to the members of this House that I want to be sure that HRSDC remembers not only the fishing problem but the people who work for the fishery in Atlantic Canada.

As vice-chair of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, I was pleased to travel across Atlantic Canada and Quebec and to hear first-hand from the industry. I hope it will provide some insight for the members of the committee, as well. We received well-thought-out presentations and great detail on the state of the lobster fishery in Atlantic Canada and the concern for the future of the lobster fishery in Atlantic Canada.

I have been hearing those concerns long before the committee toured the east coast, which is why I suggested the committee hold hearings and why I am moving this motion in this House today. I am trying to take some pressure off the dwindling lobster stocks and, in turn, hopefully provide a reasonable option for fishers who want to retire or fishers who cannot make ends meet and want to go to another career.

If there is a program implemented that would be a reduction in effort on the Atlantic lobster stock, then this would be of great value to the industry. It would mean that we would have an industry for generations to come. What I hope is that the members of the standing committee, and I am sure they did, will come to realize the great concern they have in Atlantic Canada. Most of the area I represent is rural and the inshore fisherman is vital for the economy of the area I represent.

I also want to bring to the attention of the members a problem that can even escalate the problem in the fishery. It is the funding for the Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation, which is very important centre. I have seen some of the work that it has done and it has done a lot of work to preserve stocks and ensure the fishing operations are done well. It also has done a lot of work on how to handle lobster, how to prepare the meat and how to ensure we export a much better product. What we want to do is ensure that if we export less lobster or less fish we take care of it in the best way possible. That is why I urge the government to ensure that this centre is properly funded.

Times have changed in the past 25 years and technology has improved when it comes to fishing lobsters. That is why new technologies are so important. It also means the introduction of modern methods of surveying the bottom to see rock formations and being able to determine the best areas for lobster habitat and to set the traps. With all this technology, people know exactly where the lobsters are and therefore, if people are not careful, it is much easier to deplete the stock. All I want to do is make sure there are fewer traps on the sea bottom and that lobsters have a chance to continue and not be depleted.

In Atlantic Canada the fish species have been in decline and it is getting to the point of some stocks being in danger of being depleted. We do not want this to happen to our lobster stocks. The fact that other stocks are in decline forces more fishers to turn to lobster as a major part of their yearly income. This has placed an additional stress on the lobster stock. Now is the time to act before it is too late. This is why I moved the motion to get support from the House and the government to act now before it is too late, to make a commitment to ensure a number of our fishers can exit the fishery and reduce the pressure on the stock so that we will have a viable industry for many years to come.

Let us not wait until the lobster fishers are faced with the same decline as the cod fishermen were in Atlantic Canada. Everyone knows how long it has been since the cod stocks were in good shape. In fact, they are not in good shape to this day. Fishermen listening to or watching what is happening in the House of Commons are certainly aware of a major issue that existed in my riding of Cardigan and the Souris area.

Members of Parliament have to push, in my opinion. There were times when people did not have the same view that I had. Not everyone had the same view when the herring fishery was being depleted in eastern Prince Edward Island. There was great support from my district and I pushed as hard as I could. With a lot of effort and a lot of work, we were able to save the herring stocks.

There is a still a big problem. There is still difficulty for lobster fishers to get enough bait. As most people who are involved in the fishery know, herring is the food fishery for all the fish in the sea. I remember when the trucks, perhaps 25 or 30 16-wheelers, left the town of Souris. That is pretty hard to accept. With a lot of effort, we stopped that. I thank everybody that was involved. That is what we do not want to happen today. When the bottom is covered with traps and the catch is going down, we want to make sure we do something for the fishermen.

In the riding of Cardigan there are two lobster areas. One is LFA 24 in the spring season, May and June, where the fishers set their traps in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, from East Point to North Cape. There is another area on the other side of Prince Edward Island where fishers set their traps in the Northumberland Strait. This area, as I indicated before, is LFA 26A. It is generally referred to as the south side.

We do not want to see a repeat of what took place in the herring fishery and the cod fishery. We want action by the government today, as soon as possible.

The Speaker has indicated that I am running out of time, but I have so much to say.

To give everyone a picture, even if fishermen go broke, the fact is their licences are assets. The bank takes them and sells the licences to somebody else and the stock continues to be depleted. I urge the government to make sure that this practice stops.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for bringing up this issue. We work together on the fisheries committee and in fact have done some travelling to look at the lobster fishery from this perspective and others. Later on in this debate I will have an opportunity to comment on the initiative that he has brought forward, as will one of my other colleagues.

I have a question of clarification. He used the word “fleet”. I wonder if he could define that for us. It is somewhat confusing. We have had some discussions on our side about what he might mean by that. For example, the Oxford dictionary defines it as a group of ships sailing together or under the same ownership. I am wondering if he means that or if he is just referring to an individual enterprise, which I think is the term we more commonly use.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I guess I did not spend enough time with the Webster's dictionary and too much time with the fishermen. The fact is where I come from we talk about the fishing fleet and the fact is it is one boat.

I want to compliment my hon. colleague, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. I know he is very concerned. I am sure that he will push to make sure that proper action is taken in the House of Commons to ensure there is a viable lobster industry in Atlantic Canada.

I know he understands very well that when the fishermen go broke because they cannot get enough fish, the licence is an asset and will be taken by the bank and sold to somebody else. The fact is if we do not take these fleets out totally, we will be doing nothing to take the pressure off the lobster stocks in Atlantic Canada.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate my colleague, my friend and a friend to the fishing industry, who moved this motion. He is a member from Prince Edward Island. He understands the fishery. He understands what it needs in order to survive and prosper, but also to ensure the prosperity of the families that will support the fishery for many generations to come.

Everything the member has said this afternoon makes absolute perfect sense and is consistent with the evidence that has been brought forward to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. It was the member who brought forward this motion who actually got the committee, engaged us all, to study the lobster fishery in Atlantic Canada to provide the government with solid recommendations for its future. I certainly hope that the hon. member's motion is incorporated into the recommendations of that study.

I would ask my friend and colleague, is he confident, based on the views of fishermen that we have heard to date, that his motion can and should indeed be incorporated into our final recommendations regarding the Atlantic lobster study by the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my hon. friend from Newfoundland who also has a great understanding of the fishing industry.

My colleagues from every corner, Liberals, Conservatives, NDPs and Bloc, listen to the people on the ground. The thing is we have to find out from the people on the ground exactly what is going on. In my opinion, everybody who was on that committee certainly has a great concern for the lobster fishery, but there might be some little difference in how we wish to deal with it.

When my colleagues talk in caucus, sometimes they cannot be in with the crowd; sometimes in caucus they have to be not in with the crowd. I would urge my hon. colleagues to be sure that they explain to caucus, and where possible influence cabinet, that if something is not done, these fishermen will go broke.

One might think that will take them out, but it will not. The only way that the pressure on the lobster stocks in Atlantic Canada can be relieved is to have a buyout. Some talk about what they can pay. If they are going in the hole, they cannot pay very much.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to the motion introduced by my colleague from Cardigan. I made a first visit to Magdalen Islands and to Yarmouth.

When we travelled around with the fisheries committee a few weeks ago, it was a very good experience. We had an opportunity to visit four locations, including a location in the riding of my colleague and friend who moved this motion today.

I do agree with him in some respects, in terms of taking the pressure off the stock and that it is going to take a reduction and effort to actually do that. The question is whether we should implement a program that is a licence retirement plan. I appreciate his comments that we might view this a little differently, but I think we all realize that this is important. From my perspective, we certainly support the underlying goal of the hon. member's motion to ensure a viable industry for future generations. It is the method of how we go about it that we have to discuss. We are going to have some recommendations on that from our fisheries committee, which will be coming about very soon.

Without a doubt, all of us and all the members of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans recognize that the lobster industry faces significant and daunting challenges. The member went through those, and therefore I do not have to do that. He talked about a number of things in terms of the cost pressures that have gone up. We have seen that in the agriculture industry. I represent a rural riding, and these cost of production issues are hitting us. We also heard about a number of other challenges that are facing the industry too. One of them under discussion was the grey seals which are starting to have an impact. Whether it be predation, or taking the bait and destroying traps, all these things are causing problems for the fishers and are worthy of a discussion as to what we do about them.

In my remarks today, I want to discuss several of the initiatives and strategies the government has launched to help the industry adjust to the challenging economic times and foster sustainable communities in Atlantic Canada. To understand the nature of the issues that inform the motion now before us, allow me to provide some vital context. If I have time, I am also going to talk about some of the testimony that we heard, which leads me to the conclusion that maybe we need to think about this just a bit more.

Atlantic lobster is Canada's most lucrative fishery. The value of lobster landings in 2007 alone was $560 million. This amount represented some 35% of the total value of commercial landings in Atlantic Canada fisheries.

Lobster is a major export for Canada. In 2008, lobster exports earned $920 million, or approximately 24% of the total value of the country's seafood exports. Consumers around the world, particularly in the United States, Europe and Japan, all enjoy Canadian lobster as a high quality, healthy food. Many of us in Atlantic Canada look forward to the opening of the season when we can start enjoying it on our decks.

The lobster industry is the economic cornerstone in many communities in Atlantic Canada. There are nearly 10,000 lobster enterprises in operation, providing jobs for approximately 30,000 harvesters. Most of these harvesters work inshore on relatively small boats and they are determined to protect the quality of both their product and the marine environment.

Given the importance of the lobster fishery, the government continues to do its utmost to support the viability over the short and long terms. Budget 2009, Canada's economic action plan, included a number of measures designed to assist many industries, including the lobster fishery.

One area of particular focus is access to credit, a factor crucial to the success of businesses all along the lobster value chain. Several components of the recent federal budget improve access to credit. The Business Development Bank of Canada received $250 million in capital to increase the market's lending capacity. For instance, budget 2009 also invested a further $100 million in the bank to create a time-limited working capital guarantee. To support greater collaboration among the Business Development Bank of Canada, the Export Development Bank and public sector financial institutions, the government established a business credit availability program and allotted up to $5 billion in new financing.

Canada's economic action plan also established a new Canadian secured credit facility to support financing vehicles and equipment. We also increased the Business Development Bank's paid-in capital limit to $3 billion so that it can benefit from future injections of capital.

We also were in Montague, and I appreciate the intervention made by my colleague from Wetaskiwin on hearing about all the challenges regarding access to credit in this industry. He said that maybe it was time that the fisheries committee, as part of its study, heard from some of the financial institutions. The committee agreed unanimously that was an important factor which will be coming up very soon.

Another component of the recent federal budget is the community adjustment fund which will provide $1 billion over two years to stimulate the creation and support the maintenance of jobs in communities impacted by the current economic downturn. Designed to prioritize single industry communities dependent on the resource of manufacturing sectors, the fund will support transition plans, science and technology initiatives and other measures that promote economic diversification.

Regional agencies, such as the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, are responsible for the delivery of these investments. I fully expect entrepreneurs and communities dependent on the lobster industry will develop and submit CAF proposals. Funding could then be eligible to flow to proposals that support initiatives that may include seafood marketing, eco-certification, which we also heard was a major issue and could potentially have a cost impact on this industry, traceability and harvester managed conservation activities.

It is also important to note that the government recently partnered with Canada's Maritime provinces on an international lobster marketing initiative worth $450,000. The initiative will include advertising and media campaigns, retail promotions, chef events and market research, all intended to help boost the currently low market demand for lobster products.

Along with these and other measures, the government continues to work with all stakeholders to address structural issues in the lobster fishery. Fisheries and Oceans, in its ocean to plate approach to fisheries management, calls on stakeholders to work toward a common goal of sustainable, economically viable and internationally competitive industry, which is exactly what my colleague from Cardigan is looking to do with the lobster industry.

We want to adapt readily to changes in the resource and market conditions, extract optimal value from world markets, generate comfortable incomes for workers, drive economic activity in coastal communities and attract and retain skilled workers.

When we talk about some of the consensus issues across the stakeholders, I want to draw on some presentations that were made to the committee. When we talk about the diverse opinion on this industry and what should happen.

Mr. Jenkins said, “Getting back to the buyback, we're wide open here”.

Ms. Richardson said:

I guess the buyback is not on the table for us either. We have not contemplated it. We have not talked about it. Well, we've talked about it, but it's not on the table. Our guys feel like their enterprises are there.

They feel that there is a continual thing that they can do.

Mr. Christian Brun said:

In other words—and I think this has been documented in literature—buyouts in the past have often proven that there's an effort creep-up afterwards. In other words, if you eliminate some fish harvesters or participants, the people who remain get better gear or better equipment, fish harder, and actually end up fishing relatively somewhere around the same amount.

I tend to concur with the recommendation by the Fisheries Resource Conservation Council which said:

The FRCC supports options that involve self-rationalization within the industry. The FRCC concludes that a government-funded buyout of licences is not an effective means to deal with the over-capacity in the lobster fishery. If it is decided that a buyout is preferred then it should be done in conjunction with other mechanisms that will ensure that the fishing effort is not allowed to increase following a buyout.

In my view, the motion now before us, although it does have good intentions and I really appreciate the members' comments, would fail to achieve this goal as it suggests one solution when I think there may be others and when there is a wide array of evidence which suggests that maybe it would not be workable and it would need to have the buy-in of industry and it might not lead to the lowering of fishing effort.

I agree with the solution that we can work with industry to help it self-rationalize and we do need to decrease the fishing effort. That is one of the things I am hopeful will come out with strong recommendations from the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak today to the motion by the member for Cardigan, which essentially calls for a licence buyout program for Atlantic lobster fishers.

Although a number of industries are looking for support from Ottawa, the Conservative government seems to have relegated the fisheries to the sidelines.

Yet this very important industry has many challenges as it faces a more complex problem: the decline of certain stocks and the fact that others, which have been under a moratorium for years, have not recovered.

The Bloc Québécois has long called for a licence buyout program for certain species, such as ground fish. In our opinion, this is necessary for the survival of the east coast fisheries.

The member for Cardigan will have no problem getting support from the Bloc Québécois for a program to rationalize the fisheries as long as that program is funded with new money and the buyouts do not affect regional shares of the fish stocks.

I would like to take a moment to look at what has led to this problem. How have we reached the point where we are setting up programs to pay fishers to stop fishing?

From where we stand, the problem is that both the Conservatives and the Liberals as acting as if they no longer believed in the viability of the fishing industry. The Liberals have failed to manage the resource with a view to ensuring sustainable development. They have tolerated overfishing and have let marine infrastructure deteriorate.

As for the Conservatives, they are keeping the industry in uncertainty with their arbitrary management of the resource. The Liberals are to blame for the depletion of fish stocks. By failing to respond to foreign overfishing and to carefully manage groundfish stocks, the Liberals have mortgaged the future of fisheries and made moratoriums necessary.

The Conservatives are managing the resource arbitrarily. Under the current Conservative government, fisheries management is more arbitrary than ever. Loyola Hearn, the former fisheries and oceans minister and member for a Newfoundland riding, seemed to care only about Newfoundland and the Maritimes. There are many examples.

First, in 2006, Loyola Hearn allocated an additional quota of 7,000 tons of shrimp to Newfoundland fishers, despite the fact that markets were already saturated. As a result, in the middle of the fishing season, Quebec fishers had to agree to a 2.5¢ cent drop in the landing price.

Second, the current Conservative government was slow in implementing a review process for the sharing of seal stocks, because the status quo was favouring Newfoundland, the former fisheries and oceans minister's home province.

Third, on November 8, 2006, lobster fishers from the Magdalen Islands had the McLeod shoal, a high potential 50 nautical mile square fishing zone, taken away from them and given to PEI fishers.

Since the last election, we have a new Minister of Fisheries and Oceans who acts just like her predecessor. In early April, the current fisheries and oceans minister approved a shrimp harvesting plan for the Gulf of St. Lawrence for 2009, which provides for the quota to be permanently allocated to Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island.

Clearly, that is an outrageous decision.

Once again, a minister favours her province. The present Minister of Fisheries and Oceans represents one of the four ridings of Prince Edward Island. Moreover, the minister reduces Quebec and New Brunswick quotas to give them to provinces who do not even have a shrimp processing industry. This is a blatant scandal. The decision completely ignores precautionary and preservation principles since the total catch limit is being raised by 1,000 tonnes despite the fact that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans scientists recommended the status quo.

We can understand better now why we have to pay fishermen to stop fishing. For decades, successive Liberal and Conservative governments allowed overfishing and squandered fish resources for short-term political gain. The Bloc Quebecois is asking for an end to the politicization of fisheries management. Decisions must be taken on the basis of scientific data. We must stop seeing fish stock as electoral goodies that can be given to a region.

In the last election, the Bloc proposed an ambitious plan to stimulate the fishery. That plan is now more pertinent than ever since besides helping workers in the industry, it could stimulate the economy at a time where it continues to sink. Let me describe the main features of the plan.

In terms of marine infrastructure, major investments have to be made to repair core small craft harbours in Canada and Quebec.

Concerning the cost of licences, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans must reconsider that cost to take into account the value of landings and ensure the implementation of a policy regarding the reimbursement of the unused portion of fishing licences.

On the seal hunt issue, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans must guarantee Quebec a share of seal quotas so we can have a viable industry in Quebec. It must also put in place an assistance plan with respect to groundfish to help industries, plant workers and fishers.

The Bloc Québécois proposes that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans do another round of fishing licence buyback. In the short term, the federal government must develop special EI measures and put in place a program for older workers.

In terms of international competition, the Canadian government must participate actively in the development of an enforceable international framework so that an environmentally-friendly aquaculture industry can be developed.

Unless a reciprocal bilateral agreement ensuring freer access to markets is signed, the Bloc Québécois believes that Canada should impose a tariff equal to that allowed under the most favoured nation status on imports of seafood products from WTO member countries.

In conclusion, we are saying yes to a new round of licence buyback. However, we believe that it is even more important to put a stop to political patronage in this industry and to implement a real policy to stimulate the fishing industry.

[Megan Leslie, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I will be speaking today to Motion No. 284 which seeks to ensure the sustainability, both economically and ecologically, of the important Atlantic lobster fishery. The motion calls for the development of a lobster licence retirement plan, with adequate funding to decrease the number of lobster fleets.

As an Atlantic Canadian and representative for Halifax, the riding that actually includes fishing communities like Sambro and Ketch Harbour, I am happy to lend my support to this motion in the hopes that the lobster fishery can be maintained. We know that this motion has wide support among lobster fishers who have been calling for a licence buyback for some time.

Additionally, the Fisheries Resource Conservation Council report called “Sustainability Framework for Atlantic Lobster 2007” suggests a buyout of lobster licences as one of the ways to reduce the stress on populations when coupled with mechanisms to ensure that the fishing effort is not allowed to increase following a buyout. The report says:

Following the groundfish collapse of the early 1990s, the overall fishing effort did not decline substantially as enterprises shifted their fishing effort into other fisheries, particularly shellfish. Therefore, a buyout option can only be effective when combined with other measures to restrict fishing effort or mechanisms that allow for self-adjustment within the industry itself

The FRCC recently appeared at the House of Commons fisheries committee and made it clear that the $600 million industry was at risk because of overfishing. At the committee, representatives noted that overcapitalization, fierce competition and today's larger, more powerful boats mean that there is nowhere for the lobster to hide.

We in Atlantic Canada know the dangers of overfishing all too well. However, with so many of our communities dependent on the fishery for survival, it is essential that the government provide the kind of support that this motion calls for.

The marine committee of the Ecology Action Centre in Nova Scotia points out that today lobster fishing is the only fishery where a large number of coastal residents can still make a living. Ensuring that the lobster fishery remains an owner-operated fishery and working to improve access to small-scale sustainable fishing practices for coastal residents will help rebuild our coastal communities, while helping to restore a sustainable fishery.

The current situation for lobster fishers in the east has been well reported. Just yesterday, the St. John's Telegram printed an article about the start of the season there and the worries that the fishers face about the current low market prices, which is around $3.00 to $3.50 per pound. Those low prices make it a challenge for anyone to make a living, especially when the value goes up dramatically with the middle-man dealers who sometimes mark up the catch as much as 34%.

The recession has also dealt a serious blow to the industry. Already burdened by the fact that their work is seasonal in nature, these fishers are now facing significantly lower incomes when they are able to work. Over the holiday season, lobster fishers in the Maritimes made news with a campaign to turn lobster into a Boxing Day tradition. Hundreds of families took part, cooking up a feast of the clawed creatures in support of an industry facing great challenges.

In addition to maintaining the economic sustainability of the lobster fishery, we have a responsibility to maintain the ecology of the ocean resources that we benefit from. It is another important reason why we must do what it takes to reduce the number of fleets. Overconsumption of resources is an epidemic in Canada, where we are fortunate to have an abundance of them. Those resources are not infinite however and the passing of this motion would greatly aid in the survival of lobsters as a species.

It is just as important that we protect our ocean as part of a strategy to aid the industry. This past November, the Irving-owned barge the Shovel Master sank off the coast of Nova Scotia near Yarmouth, taking its load of 70,000 litres of petroleum product to the sea floor. This part of the coast is a vital lobster habitat and the lack of action to clean up the wreck is putting thousands of lobster and hundreds of fishers' livelihoods at risk.

The regional environmental emergency team, a joint venture between provincial officials and Environment Canada, has made it clear that it is content to let this oil spill happen in slow motion, creating a date for a plan to make a plan and then setting a later date for the actual plan for the cleanup.

The ship's owners have undertaken their own internal investigation and have, suprisingly, declared that there is little risk from 70,000 litres of diesel fuel in a precariously positioned sunken barge in the lobster fishing area. The federal government needs to protect our coastlines and our lobster resources by seeing that this environmental emergency is dealt with immediately.

That action, along with a strong effort to reduce the impact of over-fishing, will significantly help lobster fishers and the communities that depend on them. It is time to act and ensure that the lobster fishery does not face the same fate as other fisheries. I am very proud to support the motion for that reason.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to stand and support the motion put forward by my colleague and friend, the hon. member for Cardigan in Prince Edward Island. I also want to salute him and his efforts on behalf of his constituents and Atlantic lobster fishermen throughout the region, who face very difficult times.

The member for Cardigan has shown real leadership, insight and dedication to what is best for them. Members of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans have been engaged in a study on the circumstance, future and viability of the Atlantic lobster fishery. We have become starkly aware of the incredibly difficult circumstances that fishermen from this region of Canada face, throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec and Prince Edward Island.

It is gravely serious. Market conditions are at an all time low. Price has declined dramatically and at an incredible rate. The market has basically collapsed within the last 12 to 24 month period. Prices are now at an all time low of nearly 50% of their historic highs. In addition, resource concerns are very clear in certain lobster fishing areas. Those concerns cause quite a lot of anxiety about whether this is a fully sustainable fishery into the long term in those individual lobster fishing areas because of recruitment issues.

The member for Cardigan has shown leadership on this issue and brought it forward to the floor of the House of Commons. The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans also represents a constituency from Prince Edward Island, yet we have seen nothing from the minister to protect that vital industry, an industry that supports her island economy. We hope the House can guide the minister further through passing this resolution, giving her some strength while she sits at the cabinet table and implores upon her colleagues to successfully get a lobster licence retirement program and get it fully funded.

The member for Cardigan had it perfectly correct. He was absolutely right. Many solutions can be used to assist the fishermen. However, the one thing we have seen very clearly is that without an organized reduction in lobster fishing capacity, one that results in not a transfer of that capacity but permanent reduction or elimination of that capacity, the serious problems that certain lobster fishing areas face will not be solved.

Those of us who paid close attention to the evidence, discussion, words, wisdom and experience of the lobster fishermen understood that a lobster licence retirement program might not be necessary in certain lobster fishing areas. However, it is necessary for those areas that face a serious over-capacity challenge to meet the needs of a fully sustainable future fishery for generations to come. Without that sustainability, we do not build the sound foundations of a reliable industry.

Many challenges are occurring in this industry, markets being one of the most predominant right now. As I said earlier, the price now paid to the land values is almost 50% below historic highs of what fishermen were paid in many areas. That will change if the government concentrates on the necessary tools and resources to generate new markets and pierce through those obstacles that market conditions for Atlantic Canadian and Quebec lobster currently present.

One thing that can change the resource prospects in terms of ecological and environmental sustainability over the long term is the reduction in capacity in specific fishing areas where it is required and a permanent reduction, a reduction that is conducted with the full support of lobster fishermen from that area. They need an opportunity, and some are looking for an opportunity, to exit the fishery and to do so with dignity and respect and to provide for a livelihood for those who remain. That is a critical point. Those who remain will be able to continue on in this industry and maintain reasonable livelihoods for their families. That does not look like a prospect that can be sustained into the future under the current conditions.

Those are the efforts of the member for Cardigan. I wish he were the minister because he would introduce some sound judgment and good policies into the fishery. However, that is the judgment of the member for Cardigan, Prince Edward Island and that judgment is shared by so many of his colleagues and those in the industry. We hope it is shared by colleagues from across the way as well, and that we, by passing this motion, continue our work within the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans on the Atlantic lobster study.

The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans hails from Prince Edward Island and is the minister responsible for the well-being of this industry. We are trying to give her some ammunition so she can go to her cabinet colleagues and the Prime Minister and get the tools required to get the job done. To date she has not done that.

We have had stimulus packages to respond to industries in peril in Canada. While we may debate the various aspects of those stimulus packages as they relate to those industries, we will leave to another time. However, when it comes to the $1 billion lobster fishery or the $4 billion fishery at large, not one penny has been invested to provide a stimulus and to provide a good solid foundation for a future fishery by the government, not one penny.

I could argue the point about how banks and the auto sector have been getting billions. This is not about pitting one against the other, which is so often the tactic of the government. This is simply to say that there is a necessity in many industry sectors. There is a necessity to apply Government of Canada resources to solve a critical problem in the Atlantic lobster fishery, which the government has not done. In fact, it is going even further in terms of its destructive path.

The member for Cardigan raised an issue about the Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovations. In the course of our travels and in meeting with lobster fishermen, organizational heads, committee chairs and others, we heard time and time again a sorry story about how the Conservative government was shutting down a vital organization involved in the coordination of research, development and the implementation of new technology and innovation into the fisheries sector. It is doing it at a critical time when the industry needs it the most, and that is now.

The Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovations, CCFI, has proven itself time and time again. Yet that track record of success is met with the back of the hand and a blind eye. Funding is being cut now and the organization may close, even though it enjoys the support of fishermen, fishermen's organizations and the fishing industry generally throughout all of Canada.

I implore the government to seek some wisdom before it shuts this institution down. I also implore the government to consider well the wisdom of the motion that has been put forward by the member for Cardigan, Prince Edward Island, someone who knows this industry probably better than anyone in this place. He understands not only where it has been, where it is today, but where it will go in the future. We need the motion passed and we need it acted upon immediately.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to this motion moved by the member for Cardigan. As I said a little earlier, I appreciate the interest he has in all fisheries issues. I know he stands up for the people of Prince Edward Island when he addresses these fisheries issues, perhaps only superceded by my colleague, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, who also hails from Prince Edward Island.

The motion reads as follows:

That, in the opinion of the House, the government should implement a program to reduce the effort on the Atlantic Lobster Fishery to ensure a viable industry for future generations with a lobster license retirement plan, and provide adequate funding to remove a number of lobster fleets from the water by cancelling licenses.

Let me say at the outset that I do applaud his intentions, because having a viable, sustainable fishery, whether it be for lobster, crab, or Pacific salmon, is our government's highest priority. We are keenly aware of the real challenges that face this sector as a result of the global economic downturn.

The question before us as parliamentarians is, is the solution proposed by the member for Cardigan the right one? In fact, all responsible parliamentarians should be asking themselves that question with every piece of legislation, whether it be private members' bills or others that we see. It is our obligation, in fact, to ask ourselves whether there might be some unintended consequences from what is before us.

We need to ask ourselves, does what the member is proposing call for a course of action that could perhaps be counterproductive to the larger goals of the lobster industry or even to the country as a whole?

We need to ask ourselves, could it derail the progress that continues to be made in modernizing the lobster industry in this country?

These are legitimate questions that we will be asking. In fact, these are questions we are also addressing in the standing committee.

There is much about this motion that we have no difficulty with at all. It says, “That, in the opinion of the House, the government should implement a program to reduce the effort on the Atlantic Lobster Fishery”.

We think that is part of the solution. Many of the witnesses we heard on our recent travels said this as well.

It talks about ensuring a viable industry for future generations. That is what we want to do. The question is how we get there and what is the best way to get there.

Clearly the biggest problem facing the lobster industry at the moment is that demand and prices are quite low. In the wake of last fall's economic downturn, the bottom fell out of the international market for Canadian lobster. People are buying less lobster around the world, and in the United States, one of our main markets.

In fact, this spring, lobster season looks especially difficult because many processors have substantial inventories, mostly frozen lobster, known as popsicle packs, leftover from last year's harvest.

So not only is the demand falling on the one hand, but the supply is relatively high. Of course, that creates a problem in the market, and the price is quite low.

Let me assure the House that the government is working with the provinces to boost lobster marketing efforts. Perhaps I will get to refer to this later on, as we come back to this in the weeks ahead.

Clearly, in the short and medium term, lack of demand and low prices threaten the viability of many businesses in the lobster industry. Harvesters who rely on borrowed money to finance their operations are particularly vulnerable. They either need to repay their debts or need more access to capital to maintain and invest in their enterprises.

These are some of the things that our government has been working on. Clearly, the lobster industry faces a multitude of complex and interrelated problems, and there is no magic bullet solution. As we get to speak about this later, we will outline what our government is doing to address these challenges.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The hon. member will have five minutes left to complete his remarks the next time this motion is before the House.

The time provided for the consideration of private members' business has now expired, and the order is dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the order paper.

It being 1:50 p.m., this House stands adjourned until next Monday at 11 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 1:50 p.m.)