Mr. Chair, it is interesting to hear the minister say that the markets will get them out of debt.
I do not have as many cattle producers or hog producers in my neck of the woods as members out west do, but nearly all of them are saying the same thing. They are not making any money at this. They are all losing money, yet the response is always that the market will get them out of it. So far the market has not done them any good. We have expanded markets and they just keep losing more money.
Hog producers were in the Senate courtyard recently. The president of the Ontario Pork Producers told me that he does not need another loan. He needs money.
The minister said there may be challenges at the WTO. The WTO is not going to save our hog farmers if we just--