Debates of May 28th, 2009

Fisheries and Oceans--Main Estimates, 2009-10

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, the size of maturity is used to ensure that minimum sizes are appropriate for lobster conservation. I am told by DFO scientists that lobsters actually reach maturity at different sizes in different areas.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Chair, I do not know if we have the authority to dismiss people who say such things, but that makes no sense. It makes no sense to think that it is better to take a smaller lobster rather than a bigger one. Why have the scientists have told us that fishing a lobster whose carapace is 70 mm is less harmful in terms of conservation than fishing a lobster whose carapace is 82 mm?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, they are not telling us what to harvest. They are simply saying that is when the lobster reaches maturity. Probably 10 or 15 years ago the science told the fishers on P.E.I. that the lobsters reached maturity at 70 millimetres. We should leave the science to the scientists.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, I would first like to thank the minister for being here and taking part in the debate.

My colleague from Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine thinks this is torture, but I do not. We are gentle and kind, but we need answers for the simple reason that our communities are suffering. For this reason, I think tonight's debate has arrived at the right time.

Where I come from, Acadie—Bathurst in northeastern New Brunswick, for one example, but also in Quebec, in the Gaspé and on the Atlantic coast, lobster fishing is in trouble, and that did not just begin this year. The problem began last year, in fact, in Nova Scotia, unless I am mistaken. Last year in Nova Scotia, prices dropped to such a point that the fishermen were really in difficulty.

Today, small lobsters, the ones called canners, are being sold at $2.75 a pound and large lobsters sell for $3.50 a pound. Members will correct me if I am wrong, but the Department of Fisheries and Oceans has already done a study on this. It noted that, for fishing to be cost effective, lobster had to sell for at least $4 a pound. The price of lobster in past years fluctuated around $6 to $6.50 a pound. Prices were pretty good, and that was a good thing for the fishermen. However, equipment, salaries of deckhands, the facilities and all that cost money.

This is an important industry for our region and for the entire Atlantic region. We are on the coast, and the primary industry is fishing. There are other industries, but fishing is part of our lives. My riding, Acadie—Bathurst, is bound by the sea from Pointe-Verte to Miscou and from Miscou to Tracadie Beach. The minister must know this as she comes from Prince Edward Island, which is bound by the sea.

Yesterday, there was a demonstration in Tracadie-Sheila outside the offices of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. Over 500 people were there, fishermen, captains, deckhands and families with a fishing business who have found themselves in poverty. Boat payments, the cost of diesel fuel, all these costs are huge, and they do not make enough money to make their monthly payments. They are wondering what will happen in the coming weeks.

A lot of fishermen will fish for herring in the fall. However, in July and August, there is not a lot of fishing and so not a lot of income. The minister knows this.

I will now ask my questions. As my other colleagues have said, a $10 million investment has been announced. I would like the minister to tell me how this $10 million will be used and how it will benefit fishermen.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, we know that fishers are having an extremely tough time, and I appreciate that the hon. member sees it every day, as I do.

The crisis that the lobster industry is facing, of course, is because of the market. That is why we have invested $10 million in marketing. If we, as an industry, land 100 million pounds of lobsters and they are down by $2 a pound, that is $200 million gone out of the economy. The only way we can recover that money is to help the markets recover. That is why it is important to put money into marketing.

As for the $4 a pound, which the hon. member has said is the break-even point, I just want to make this comment: That $4 a pound is break-even when we take into account the capitalization and a prolonged low price. I talked to a gentleman last week who was fortunate enough to land 30,000 pounds of lobsters, and 30,000 pounds of lobsters at $3 a pound is $90,000, so he will be fine. He is still making money at $3 a pound.

As to the $4 a pound, we have to look at it in context. That takes into account paying for the boat and everything over a number of years with prolonged low prices. I do believe we have the supply; we just have to increase the demand. That is why it is very important to put money into marketing.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, I would like to ask the minister another question.

A catch of 30,000 pounds at $3 a pound comes to $90,000, but that might be in Prince Edward Island.

I can guarantee the minister that in Caraquet and Pointe-Verte, fishers are not landing 30,000 pounds. It is more like 10,000 pounds. In Gaspé, at best they are landing 6,000 pounds, which, at $3 a pound, comes to only $18,000.

How are people supposed to make money and get ahead after paying for diesel or gas for their boats and paying their crew? I am talking about what is really happening.

I do not know. Maybe the minister is talking about Nova Scotia, because no one where I come from is landing 30,000 pounds.

Where is she getting her figures? Is she talking about Nova Scotia? Is she talking about Prince Edward Island? Who did she meet with? I do not believe the minister came to Shippigan. What group of fishers did she meet with?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, that was an example that I used. There are plenty of fishers who do not get 30,000 pounds. There are plenty of fishers who get 8,000 or 10,000 pounds of lobsters.

I know in speaking to provincial governments that some of the provincial governments are coming to the aid of fishers. They are providing flexible, low-interest loans for fishermen so that they do not have that huge payment. They are being flexible in repayment terms to help them through this year.

However, if we do not do something to help the market recover and increase the demand for our lobster, then the price will be $3 a pound a lot longer.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, I am not against investing money in marketing.

Let us say that prices go up. When lobster is sold on the market again, are the big companies that bought it going to go to the fishers and pay them the difference?

People and fishers in New Brunswick are wondering, because they are the ones going through hard times right now. It is not the Barry company in Newfoundland that is struggling, it is the fishers. Fishers are struggling. What program is the government going to put in place in the short term to help fishers who are struggling?

The minister used the example of 30,000 pounds, but I could have found an example of 10,000 pounds, because there are cases like that out there.

Is there a program? Will the $10 million help fishers immediately? Following the demonstration in Tracadie-Sheila, we read in Acadie Nouvelle that Ottawa likes to see Atlantic Canada suffer. That is how people feel. Families, fishers, communities and plant workers are trying every day to earn a living, but they cannot see any light at the end of this very dark tunnel.

What does the minister have to say to the fishers listening to us this evening? Fishers are listening to what the minister has to say tonight. What will they be getting? What will they have tomorrow morning? How will they benefit from the meeting with the Premier of New Brunswick, Shawn Graham, who went to the trouble of coming all the way here from New Brunswick? He certainly did not come here to say that all is well, because all is not well.

What will the government do for fishers, not just for companies that buy lobster and can afford to wait? They have money, but fishers do not.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, as I said, we do know that there is some real hardship out there within the lobster industry. There is hardship right across the country. People have lost jobs.

The hon. member talks about how it is not just the plants that need help. Well, it is because of the plants that the lobster is even being sold, and it is because of the plants that the people are working in the plants. So it is very important that those plants are operating. I am sure he will agree with me on that.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, I agree and I am not disputing that.

I will wrap up my question now so as not to go on all evening. In the meantime, fishers are telling us that they do not have the money they need to make it to the end of the season and pay their deckhands, the people who work with them.

What do we have to offer them? Yes, we need to think about marketing for the long term, but what can we offer fishers now? What can we offer them today, in the spring of 2009, to help them right away?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, I have said to my department that if there is any kind of flexibility in any policy that we have that would help fishers, we are certainly willing to go down that road. If there is anything we can do at DFO to change the rules a little bit so that they can at least cut down on their input costs, we would be very willing to do that.

We have gone out and talked to the banks as a department. Our mandate is fish stocks and fish habitat, but we have gone and talked to the banks to tell them about the situation and that they may need to be flexible with the repayment terms in the upcoming year.

We have talked to the provinces. As I have said, there are other levels of government here, too. The provinces can be flexible with repayment terms. However, we cannot subsidize a pound of lobster.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, if I understand correctly, the Conservative government has no plans to help lobster fishers, nor will it provide any subsidies to help them cover their losses. I think the answer was pretty clear.

The government will not subsidize the price of the lobster. It is clear. That is what the federal Conservative government is saying tonight, that it will not subsidize. Am I right?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

What I am saying, Mr. Chair, is that this is a market problem.

Yes, the federal Conservative government will help the lobster fishers. We have just helped them with a $10 million fund for marketing of their product, to try to get the price back up on their product so that they can have more money in their pockets.

It is the same federal Conservative government that delivered the capital gains exemption to the fishers that they have wanted for the last 10 years. So the member cannot stand there and say the federal Conservative government is not helping fishers, because we are.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, that was not my question. I asked whether the government would help lobster fishers with respect to the prices they are getting now.

I have another question now, about small craft harbours in New Brunswick. How much will the government spend on New Brunswick harbours?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, I guess what the hon. member would like me to say is that we are upgrading a small craft harbour in his riding. I believe it is probably the most expensive one in the country, to the tune of some $5 million.

However, that member voted against the budget and I just cannot figure out why. I do not know how the member is going to tell his constituents about that.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, I will take the credit for that. Perhaps it is because they have a good MP.

I would like to thank the minister, but there is more to my question than that. The budget allocates $4.8 million for the Shippagan wharf, but that is not the only city that needs money. Is there money for the wharves in Pointe-Verte, Clifton, Caraquet and Saint-Raphaël? I could go on listing wharves and the problems we are having in the region.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, in this fiscal year, more than $28 million will be spent on small craft harbours in the province of New Brunswick alone due to the Conservative government's support of the fishing industry in New Brunswick.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Chair, thank you for the opportunity today to present the many ways in which the Department of Fisheries and Oceans fosters the economic prosperity of Canadians. The flourishing aquaculture industry in Canada is a perfect example. The aquaculture sector is an increasingly important part of our economy and an industry in which we can take great pride.

Since 1996, Canadian aquaculture production has more than doubled. It has an approximate value of $1 billion, representing one third of the value of the country's fish and seafood sector. Canada has all the conditions for this sector to succeed: a sizeable coastline, favourable water temperatures and a long tradition of fish production. These factors, together with innovative technologies supported by a government committed to helping this industry achieve its full potential, will ensure that aquaculture will have a bright future in our country.

DFO is committed to working with provinces and territories to grow this industry, providing valuable employment opportunities to coastal and rural communities, while contributing to the world's food supply at the same time. I am pleased to speak on this part of the industry tonight as some of this operation is in my riding, being an inland riding, which feeds to the aquaculture sector in the Bay of Fundy of New Brunswick.

This government's 2008 budget announced $70 million in funding for the federal sustainable aquaculture program. Over the course of the next five years, this investment will help the Canadian aquaculture industry to succeed and flourish in an economic, socially and environmentally sustainable manner.

The new sustainable aquaculture program focuses on four interconnected and mutually supportive areas: governance and regulatory reform, regulatory science, innovation, and certification and market access. These four pillars are being used to help guide our approach to aquaculture development and are reflected in the concrete steps being taken to advance the industry here in Canada.

First, we are collaborating with the provinces and territories, industry, academia, other government departments, environmental organizations and international partners, all to improve the way we manage this country's farmed seafood industries.

Second, funding is being used to support the environmentally sustainable management of aquaculture operations. Part of the funding has already been used to initiate 16 research projects across Canada under the new program for aquaculture regulatory research.

Third, we have been working closely with industry to establish the Canadian Aquaculture Standards Forum to advance our collective understanding of third-party certification issues and to support the industry's efforts to become fully certified to international standards as soon as possible. We have also collaborated with industry to proactively tell our sustainability story in key markets through the United States and Europe.

Last, we have established the aquaculture innovation and market access program, AIMAP. This grant and contributions program is making $4.7 million available each year, totalling $23.5 million over the next five years, to support innovation in the aquaculture industry.

I am pleased to say that through AIMAP, DFO has already made significant contributions to sustainable production and increased diversification in green technologies within our aquaculture industry across the country. For example, in December 2008, the Government of Canada made its first announcement with the Government of Manitoba regarding the allocation of AIMAP funding to support an innovative model farm project for freshwater aquaculture in the province.

The project involved an AIMAP investment of over $300,000 to support a model aqua farm in Winnipeg that shows considerable potential for the future of freshwater farming. This development involves the construction of a state-of-the-art land-based freshwater aquaculture production system that will eventually help standardize freshwater farms for the rest of Canada.

Our commitment to working with the provinces and territories to help our aquaculture industry expand, evolve and succeed has only increased in 2009. As part of our objective to encourage sustainable fisheries, in January we invested $1 million in four different innovative projects taking place in my home province, in southwest New Brunswick. As a result, Canadian Halibut Inc., Kelly Cove Salmon, the Aquaculture Engineering Group and Cooke Aquaculture will all have opportunities to make advancements through their projects that will make a real difference to the future of the industry.

Similarly, in March of 2009 DFO invested another $1 million into the Newfoundland commercial Atlantic cod farm demo project, along with contributions by Cooke Aquaculture in the province of Newfoundland. These funds will assist in the development of a commercial scale cod farm in the Hermitage Bay area that will raise cod from fry to market.

With the help of agencies such as the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, this project will not only demonstrate the technical and financial feasibility of commercial cod farming, it also has the potential to bring more jobs to the area over the long-term.

Since we began the aquaculture innovation and market access program in 2008, $4.4 million in federal funds has already been leveraged for 28 projects, with a total value of over $26 million, and DFO continues to review proposals annually.

Over the course of the next four years, I am confident that even more aquaculture initiatives within each of the four pillars we are focusing on will benefit greatly from the access and support of our new sustainable aquaculture program.

Canada is a world leader in researching integrated aquaculture and we are quickly becoming a model for sustainable fisheries. In order to maintain this position and drive further growth, the Government of Canada must continue to invest to encourage viable aquaculture and improve its ability to respond to market-driven opportunities.

DFO's aquaculture collaborative research and development program has a budget of about $4.5 million annually and teams the aquaculture industry with DFO researchers, and sometimes other funding partners, to increase the number of partnerships, to share knowledge, and to develop further research and developmental opportunities. The objectives of this program include boosting the performance of fish stock, maintaining optimal fish health and practising solid industry environmental performance, all to help Canada's aquaculture sector reach its highest potential.

As members may know, the program has funded a number of successful joint projects between government and industry over the past few years. For example, researchers from DFO's Freshwater Institute and collaborators from across the country have been looking into the ecosystem effects of cage aquaculture on Canada's lakes. This research is helping to chart a clear course for sustainable freshwater cage-based aquaculture that will complement ocean farming as another industry driver.

The bottom line is that science and technology innovation are driving the success of a vibrant and innovative aquaculture industry. Solid research is working to strengthen the industry's environmental performance and improve economic development at the same time.

From east to west, aquaculture is providing jobs and a future to many Canadians in communities where the economic options were at one time more limited. In fact, the majority of aquaculture jobs in this country employ people younger than 40.

The concrete benefits that this industry brings to Canadians are made much clearer when looking along the coast of bays in southern Newfoundland where a thriving aquaculture industry has re-energized coastal rural communities that have seen tough times in the past.

With the funding we received in the 2008 budget, the programs I mentioned today, along with other DFO initiatives, will help us to improve the industry's competitiveness and environmental performance on the global stage. Our investment will encourage continuous development of the aquaculture sector and help make Canada a stronger international contender during the period of economic uncertainty and beyond.

I would like to reiterate that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is committed to working alongside its partners in order to attain its objectives and improve the assistance provided to this country's aquaculture industry.

I have a couple of questions that I would like to ask the minister about the aquaculture industry and, if I have time, maybe one about salmon.

I believe it is clear that this government is taking significant steps to support the sustainable development of the aquaculture industry. Commercial-scale aquaculture emerged in Canada during the 1970s. Since then there has been a significant increase in public scrutiny of industry and pressure on governments to take action to reduce impacts of industrial activity on the environment. Environmental advocacy groups have closely scrutinized the salmon farming sector since the late 1990s as production began to grow exponentially on both coasts of Canada.

We all know that there are inherent challenges to farming fish and seafood, just as there are with any kind of fisheries and land-based farming. Yet, despite these challenges, the Canadian aquaculture sector has grown steadily and addressed gaps between supply and demand for fresh fish and seafood. The sector is providing valuable and rewarding jobs for many Canadians in coastal, rural and aboriginal communities. The latest trend is the concept of seafood sustainability. Many different certification and standard criteria have been developed.

How has DFO adapted its management of the aquaculture industry to ensure that fish and shellfish farms have improved their environmental performance?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, as the lead federal department responsible for aquaculture management, Fisheries and Oceans Canada works with the provinces and other federal departments, and together we ensure that the aquaculture industry develops in an environmentally responsible way while remaining economically competitive in the national and international markets.

The management regime has adapted and grown with the industry. All aquaculture operations are subject to rigorous environmental monitoring under a number of federal and provincial acts. They have to meet high standards of environment sustainability. There is no single aquaculture act but, rather, a mix of legal tools for protecting the marine environment, which includes the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act; the federal Fisheries Act, which provides fish, fish habitat and water quality protection; the federal fish health protection regulations, which provide effective disease control; and the federal Species at Risk Act, or SARA, which protects endangered species.

Canada has measures in place to ensure a sustainable, efficient and effective aquaculture sector, and this government will continue to work with partners to foster even further growth.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Chair, in explanation of the management of the industry and how it is so important, I am encouraged to know there are checks and balances in place, because we have obviously seen some challenges in the industry over the past.

One particularly important safeguard is that the management plans are mandatory as a condition of licence. Each plan is specific to the site where the shellfish farm is located and the health of the aquatic species being farmed. It also outlines guidelines to manage fish farm waste and to prevent disease and escapes from the farm. This is all very encouraging.

From a broader perspective, given the past, I would like the view of the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans on the potential of the aquaculture industry.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, we are closely monitoring the aquaculture industry as it evolves, and I am encouraged by what I see. The management of aquaculture in Canada is constantly improving. Fish farming practices evolve as new scientific research is completed and new technologies are developed. These advancements are continuously integrated into new aquaculture practices.

To be successful in the long term, the Canadian aquaculture industry must be seen to be environmentally sustainable. There is a big opportunity for aquaculture into the future. It is predicted that there will be a severe shortage of fish around the world and that is one place where aquaculture can grow.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Chair, I will ask a local question on the wild Atlantic salmon. It is a subject of much interest in my riding on the Saint John River system. Following the release of Canada's policy for conservation of wild Pacific salmon in 2005, DFO began work on the wild Atlantic salmon conservation policy to parallel the Pacific document.

I know the minister was there when a group from my riding won the national recreational fisheries award from the Miramichi Headwaters Salmon Federation.

I would like to ask if the minister could give us an update on the wild Atlantic salmon policy.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, extensive consultations were held across the Maritime provinces and Quebec in May and June of 2005, with further consultations with provincial officials, aboriginal organizations and other stakeholders in the spring of 2008, at which time comments were provided on the draft of a new policy.

The policy will provide a modernized framework for setting priorities and making decisions with respect to Atlantic salmon and will help guide the delivery of DFO programs in the Atlantic salmon endowment fund.

It will also allow any input by community stewardship groups to more open and transparent decision-making.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Mr. Chair, I am splitting my time with the members for Brossard—La Prairie and Cape Breton—Canso.

I first of all want to welcome the minister, my colleague from the province of Prince Edward Island. I think she is well aware of the disastrous situation in the fishing industry and the great problems, as she represents a fishing area.

I have some questions I would like to ask. The minister received a proposal from the P.E.I. Fishermen's Association and the minister responsible for HRSDC, and I believe the Prime Minister received the proposal, on employment insurance.

As the minister is well aware, It's by the catch that fishermen are paid EI. Now some fishermen may be catching 30,000 pounds, but I represent a lot of fishermen who probably caught 15 or 20 lobster.

What has the minister done with the proposal? What success has she had with the minister?

Please do not stand and tell me it is the responsibility of the minister of HRSDC. We have many fishermen, particularly in area 26A, who are going to have a very tough winter if something is not done. The process is there to put the EI funds in the hands of the fishermen. The fishermen I represent need money, they need development and marketing dollars, but they need dollars to pay their bills this winter.

Can the minister tell us where this proposal is?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Chair, we have received all sorts of proposals around EI, and a number of other things. All the proposals and all the different ideas have gone to the Minister of HRSDC for consideration.

Maybe the member can enlighten us on the EI system and the current state of affairs in his area of the fishing industry and the projected catch for an average fisher in that riding.