Debates of May 28th, 2009

Fisheries and Oceans--Main Estimates, 2009-10

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Madam Chair, I was talking about the threat to the Greenland halibut in the St. Lawrence.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, we have not yet announced the management plan for that fishery. We will be completing it soon.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Madam Chair, I would like to return to the second part of my question from an hour ago. Just to refresh the minister, I asked about the quota increase in a NAFO regulatory zone for the bycatch, which went from 5% to 13%.

The core issue here is about the idea of the commitment to custodial management. During the years 2003 to 2005, when former minister Hearn openly discussed the idea of custodial management, in his view custodial management pertained to the Government of Canada making the primary decisions in areas such as the Nose and Tail of the Grand Banks. Therefore, if a decision were made through the NAFO mechanism to increase quotas, how can NAFO claim that it has effectively achieved custodial management when that decision should have been made by the Government of Canada? Is that really custodial management? I do not think it is.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, I want to quote from a gentleman the hon. member would know quite well, by the name of Earle McCurdy, who is a natural commissioner. He says:

I think it's nonsense to claim that, in respect to what most people claim as “custodial management”. I do not agree with it. The new regime that we have is, in my personal opinion, and if given the choice between the old regime and the proposed new regime--on the balance of all considerations--an improvement.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Madam Chair, the opinion of Mr. Hearn in the years prior to the election was far different than what was just described. It really was a commitment to regulatory management of the 200 nautical miles by the Government of Canada. In essence, that was the promise.

I would like to go to the issue of access to financial capital. Fish harvesters have little means to access financing from banks or other financial institutions. In these difficult times, fishermen need to access capital in order to improve vessel efficiency, combining licences, or purchasing new equipment.

What steps does the government plan to take to help fish harvesters access capital in order to improve their individual enterprises? Could the minister outline what specific steps the government plans to take, and has taken, regarding the access to capital?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, as part of our economic action plan, our government announced a very generous package to provide access to capital through BDC and EDC. They have been very active within the fishing industry.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Madam Chair, I would like to move very quickly to the seal hunt, once again, and the ban on the importation of seal products by the European Union. I will end up closing on this, as I believe my time is getting short.

Recently The Economist published an article condemning European politicians, basically stating, and I am paraphrasing, that in essence it has created a dangerous precedent by which other animals being harvested throughout Europe are unregulated or not as regulated as what the seal hunt would be. Therefore, it has shone a bad light on its own practices.

Would the minister say in the House now that it has created a dangerous precedent? Would she tell the Europeans that their unregulated hunts will be subject to criticism by the Conservative government?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, we always have said this. Maybe we should be telling the NGOs this, because they have been very active in Europe spreading mistruths about our seal hunt. Maybe they can now turn their sights on something in Europe.

To get back to the seal hunt, and the hon. member knows this, when parliamentarians in the European Union received letters from a Liberal senator from Canada, it had to be very confusing to them as to whether Canada supported or did not support the seal hunt.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Madam Chair, I asked the minister a short time ago about the NAFO increase in the northern shrimp quota. I did not ask her what her management decision was. I asked her to assure this House that she would base her decisions on historic allocations. Could she please do that?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, that will be part of the management decision.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Madam Chair, we hope it is.

I would like to ask the minister this. She did advise that the tender for the new science vessel was about to be let. I would like to ask her for the parameters of the tender. When is she anticipating this vessel will finally be completed? I am sure that she has had her considerations in that area. As well, can the minister give some assurance that she will indeed proceed once the tender has been let?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, I can tell the hon. member that we expect to have the first vessel in the water by 2013 and the final one by 2015.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Madam Chair, could the minister assure the House that we will indeed be proceeding on this tender?

We do know this government has proceeded with tenders before on coast guard vessels that have not even been re-let, so I am asking for her assurance that we will indeed have a research vessel by 2013 or 2014, which is again quite a significant time.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, these coast guard vessels are currently going through the tender process. I cannot prejudge what the outcome is going to be, but I can tell the hon. member that the last attempt to get these vessels tendered was because we did not feel we were getting the best value for our money. It was in the interest of Canadian taxpayers.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Madam Chair, may I ask what the minister has done to ensure that at this particular juncture she will have the tender she expects to have and we can proceed with this very important scientific vessel?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, we have tried to put a little more flexibility within our specs.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Madam Chair, has she allocated the required dollars in the estimates we are reviewing?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, that is correct.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Madam Chair, since the minister will not comment specifically on management plans that are apparently days away, does the minister hold true, as a principle in making management decisions, that those who actually fish a resource, those who have made investments and taken risks to establish a fishery are the ones who can expect to be assigned new quotas in that fishery, or will they be assigned to those who are awarded a royalty charter, hold that royalty charter up and say, “Now that I have been assigned this right to fish, who wants it and how much will you pay for it?” Or, will she give it to the fishermen who actually fish the resources?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, as the hon. member knows, anyone who holds an ITQ, which is an individual transferrable quota, can ask someone else to fish their quota. This happens on a regular basis.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Madam Chair, that is not on a regular basis. It is not a regular circumstance. It is the circumstances of the fishery right now. There is an economic crisis, a financial collapse in this fishery.

Will the minister adhere to a principle that those who fish the resource, those who are barely making ends meet today, those who need a leg up, a helping hand up instead of a kick down, will be given any new resources or new allocations first, as opposed to those who simply want to have a piece of paper that entitles them to hold it up and say that they now own a royalty charter assigned to them by the minister and if anyone wants the fish that they will not be fishing they will give it out to the highest bidder? Those people will pocket the money, which will actually cause economic collapse and chaos for everyone in the fishery.

That is exactly the prescription that the minister has suggested in the past. That is what she would do. She would simply allow those who have no stake in the fishery whatsoever to be granted an access for use as a royalty charter and put in jeopardy those entrants who are already there. Is that what she intends to do next week?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, I think what the hon. member is implying is that we should change the policy and give people who have individual transferrable quotas, cut out those who actually do not go in the boat. However, a few minutes ago he was talking about how fishers are having a hard time making ends meet. Actually, if one has an individual transfer quota, would it not make sense for two quotas to get together on one boat to save money?

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Madam Chair, this is a situation where new quotas are being provided. I would agree that those who have two quotas should be allowed to get up on one boat, but the buddying up system that was put in place by the minister actually puts in place so many restrictions and so many rules that she is the very one who is actually preventing that from happening.

Why does the minister not do what she just said she would do? When it comes to the buddying up system, why were so many restrictive covenants put in place by the minister, basically assigning quotas to one vessel working in partnership with each other and allowing them to fish?

What the minister fails to want to talk about is a new quota that is in the fishery like the northern shrimp quota. The minister wants to dodge the issue and talk about her failures on buddying up to try and prevent discussion about the fact that she wants to give quota to a group of people who have no actual capacity to fish the resource or process the resource. They just simply want to hold up a piece of paper and say that they have a royalty charter, ask who wants it and then ask how much they will pay for it. That is the wrong thing to do for this fishery, especially in these economic times, and the minister should know the difference.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Madam Chair, I want to remind the hon. member that it was his government that gave the quota to Prince Edward Island in the first place.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Madam Chair, the price of shrimp was a heck of a lot higher at that point in time. I will tell you something--