House of Commons Hansard #73 of the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was seniors.

Topics

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Menzies Conservative Macleod, AB

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his passion on this issue. As I said in my remarks, it is very important that we respect our seniors because of the incredible contribution they have made to our country. We put pension splitting for seniors in place, at the request of seniors, in our prebudget consultations two years ago. We heard a resounding request for that.

It is probably not perfect, but it was a position that was asked for by seniors, a position that we could take and move forward. I would argue that this is exactly what we are doing.

I heard loud and clear from every part of the country. I repeat, we had public sessions open to all seniors who wanted to come and share their concerns with us. To be fair, we were trying to hear about what was our jurisdiction federally, the federally regulated private pension plans.

I need to share with all hon. members the concern that other seniors raised outside of that parameter. They shared that with their provincial ministers as well. Not all finance ministers in the provinces are responsible for pension regulation, so we have a bit of a challenge with that. When the finance ministers get together, not all of them are responsible for pensions.

At the federal-provincial-territorial finance ministers meeting, pensions was probably the most discussed issue around the table. That is why we are coming forward with a research working group to address the adequacy of retirement income in Canada.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have been impatiently waiting for the report to which the parliamentary secretary has referred. He has been touring the country for the last several months. It was announced that he would immediately tour the country and come forward a report. Recently he moved for an extension.

First, do I understand from his comments that his research working group is not prepared to respond today on what recommendations it would make to the minister on the changes needed?

The second question is on the issue of unfunded liabilities. A lot of our major companies are asking for that to be moved from five years to ten years. I would be interested to know what his comments are on that.

The Canada pension plan was overhauled by the Liberal government and put on a very secure funding program. We are all very proud of that program. It has been a major boost to the low income seniors. Knowing that the Prime Minister was previously supportive of abolishing the CPP and replacing it with a super RRSP as a mandatory savings program, I continue to have concerns, given the future challenges we will face, that the Prime Minister might still be of that same mind to abolish the CPP.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Menzies Conservative Macleod, AB

Mr. Speaker, my colleague has on several occasions approached me personally to express her concerns about pension adequacy. The hon. member is concerned, as we all are in the House.

In reference to her question about the consultation process, we have said at this point that any changes we deem necessary to strengthen federally-regulated private pension plans will be put forward in legislative changes next fall. The website that was receiving input was finalized as of May 31, so we are still doing our analysis.

We heard about extending solvency. Perhaps I can address that on an individual basis with the hon. member.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont Alberta

Conservative

Mike Lake ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Industry

Mr. Speaker, I will follow up on a line of questioning that took place earlier today.

A few of my constituents have expressed concerns about the bonus structure of the CPP. Overwhelmingly the more prominent concern is about stability of the pensions. My constituents have been expressing a concern in terms of the performance of the Canada pension plan. I would like a bit of clarification.

A global economic crisis is going on. Obviously the stock markets have taken a very significant hit, particularly earlier in the year. Could the member comment on the relative performance of the CPP compared to the overall performance of the stock markets in general?

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Menzies Conservative Macleod, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am very glad to get that question. We do not want seniors who are listening to this debate today to start worrying about the Canada pension plan. It is one of the soundest plans in the world.

The triennial review, which was completed and discussed at the federal-provincial-territorial finance ministers meeting, confirmed that once again. As I said earlier, this is arm's-length from government so there is no political interference at all, either provincially or federally. A joint jurisdiction reviews this. We want that to be very clear.

It is sound. Individuals make investment recommendations on what is a very large fund. That fund did relatively well compared to many of our own RRSPs. There are many examples around the world that did not do so well.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, first, did the member's group look at the Saskatchewan pension plan, which has been in place now for a number of years? Second, can he assure the House that the government is not looking at any type of privatization of the Canadian pension system.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Ted Menzies Conservative Macleod, AB

Mr. Speaker, as I said, part of the consultation was to deal with federally-regulated private pension plans. However, the group met with each province that had done some innovative things with their pension plans.

The member referred to Saskatchewan and absolutely it has moved forward, as has Quebec. Alberta and British Columbia tabled a report that was very informative, as did Nova Scotia and Ontario. That is why the research group decided to focus on overall retirement income adequacy, to ensure that retirement incomes for Canadians would be adequate going forward. As I say, there are some good examples in Saskatchewan. We are working with the provinces on this. That is very important.

The thing we need to remember in all of this debate today is that we are treading on provincial jurisdiction. The federal government only regulates 7% of private pension plans. We need to ensure that what we deal with today is federal jurisdiction and not impose any suggestions of what the provinces should do on their own.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have an opportunity to join in this debate. I thank my colleague from Hamilton East—Stoney Creek for putting forward this opposition motion. Today's motion gives us a chance to talk about the pension issues that many Canadians are talking about, and to talk about what else we could possibly do to improve the quality of life for seniors throughout Canada.

Many seniors are struggling because they are in a low income bracket. Others are struggling because of the income trust issue, the requirements on their RRIFs and the downturn in the stock market. Many seniors look to government to show leadership and sensitivity to the issue.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak today, especially in my capacity as the official opposition critic for veterans affairs, seniors and pensions. We will have a chance to talk about many of those issues today.

I was in Normandy, France last week, along with several of my colleagues, for the D-Day anniversary on June 6. We had a chance to spend quite a bit of time with several of our veterans and to talk about many issues, not only issues specific to veterans and seniors, but issues important to the country as a whole.

They made it clear to me that they want to make sure that Canada remains on a solid footing and that we continue to be a compassionate, caring country. Our veterans fought for that. They are relying on all of us as parliamentarians to ensure that work is done. They added to my and my colleagues' feeling of responsibility.

Our veterans want us as parliamentarians to be their voice, to be responsible, to be reasonable, and to do a good job for them. I can certainly say to all of them and to my constituents in York West that I take my responsibility seriously and I will continue to do the best I can. I am sure my colleagues will do the same.

We have an opportunity today to focus on the issues concerning veterans and seniors. We need to make sure we are protecting their dignity. We need to ensure that we provide a good quality of life for them.

The NDP motion that is before us today states:

That, in the opinion of the House, in light of the legitimate concerns of Canadians that pensions and their retirement security may not be there for them in their retirement years, the Government of Canada should begin to work with the provinces and territories to ensure the sustainability of Canadians' retirement incomes by bringing forward at the earliest opportunity, measures such as:

(a) expanding and increasing the CPP/QPP, OAS and GIS to ensure all Canadians can count on a dignified retirement;

(b) establishing a self-financing pension insurance program to ensure the viability of workplace sponsored plans in tough economic times;

(c) ensuring that workers' pension funds go to the front of the line of creditors in the event of bankruptcy proceedings;

(d) in the interest of appropriate management of the CPP that the Government of Canada immediately protect the CPP from imprudent investment practices by ceasing the practice of awarding managers performance-based bonuses; and

(e) take all necessary steps to recover those bonuses for 2009, ensuring managers in the future are paid appropriate industry-competitive salaries.

That is quite a list. Some of those items are easier to support than others. Some of them raise other questions about our responsibilities, especially with arm's length operations. I will try to touch on some of the issues within my time limit.

Seniors are active members of our society and we want them to stay as such. Our last Liberal budget made significant investments in seniors programs, from health care to income security, from retirement savings to assistance for their caregivers. Once we had financial stability back, we did more for seniors in that period of time than any other government had done. I appreciate that governments continue to do more. This is not about who has done the most, but about how we can continue to improve the quality of life for seniors in our country.

Our constant goal has to be the enhancement of the quality of life for all seniors. We must remember that the country was built by today's seniors.

As members will know, the guaranteed income supplement provides low income seniors with a benefit that ensures a basic level of income throughout their retirement years.

In 2004 our Liberal government, under the great leadership of the former prime minister and a great minister of state for families and caregivers, made a commitment, along with the rest of our colleagues, to increase the guaranteed income supplement by $1.5 billion over five years. However, our budget went above and beyond that commitment. We also proposed to increase the guaranteed income supplement benefits for low income seniors, not by the $1.5 billion but by $2.7 billion over two years. That would have made a significant difference in the ability of many of our low income seniors to have a bit of extra money to enjoy a few extra niceties in life, a bit of a vacation or a dinner out. Many of our seniors do not have the extra funds to do that. It was our intent to have the maximum guaranteed income supplement increased by more than $400 per year for a single senior and by almost $700 for a couple.

I have to mention also that we know many of the people who continue to live below the poverty line are women. Women who stay at home to raise their children do not contribute to CPP and are penalized because of that. In spite of the fact that we have a GIS program, we need to find a way to allow women or men who prefer to stay in the household and raise their families some ability to contribute. Some sort of a pension program is needed so that they do not end up in poverty at 65 years of age.

Recently I have heard some excellent suggestions for future improvements to the Canada pension plan, such as increasing the current 60% CPP survivor pension. I often hear from widows who come into my office that the bills are the same as they were when their husbands were alive, but suddenly, when the husband dies, the pension is reduced immediately.

Could we not extend that by several months, giving the survivor, usually a widow, time to adjust to being alone and finding the ability to carry things financially? All of the expenses for a house are the same, and yet all of a sudden, within a week of the death of the spouse, that pension is reduced very quickly and the surviving spouse has to figure out how to manage that. It is a huge problem and one on which I would like to see us do some work. Could we manage to give the surviving pensioner a couple of months to adjust to suddenly being on a single income rather than a dual income?

Maybe we could increase the income replacement rate for the Canada pension, which currently is only 25% of allowable income. Canada needs to have a big discussion on what we need to do when it comes to pensions and increasing the amount of savings toward our pension system.

The former Liberal government, specifically the finance minister of the day, Paul Martin, acted in 1997 to make sure that the Canada pension plan would be affordable for future generations, and also, very importantly, could be sustained in the face of an aging population, increasing longevity and the retirement of the baby boom generation. It was clearly foreseen by Mr. Martin that that was going to put a huge strain on our retirement system and changes were made at that time. Given the economic situation we are in, we need to look now at the next 50 years and what kind of changes also need to be made.

He also introduced proposals to significantly alter the Canada pension plan on February 14, 1997, just days prior to the release of his 1997 federal budget. Stakeholders all across the country agreed that these tough changes were in the country's best interest to ensure a socially secure and fairly compensated work force in the years to come. Thank goodness that work was done at that particular point.

The economic crisis though means that Canadians continue to be worried about their pensions, and rightfully so. We have all heard stories of Canadians who are losing their pensions due to company bankruptcies. The only province in Canada that protects pensions is Ontario, and that is only to a certain value, but thank goodness that at least Ontario has that program. I would hope that other provinces would adopt a similar program.

I would like to hear what the Conservative government is going to do to protect Canadian pensions. We have heard some comments from the parliamentary secretary, but most of us are anxious to know what other ideas the Conservatives have and how we can work together to make sure that we are doing the best for our seniors who are looking forward to their pension days. So far, we have not heard anything concrete, other than more study. I am glad there is a website up and working today, but how long will it be before we get legislation that we can pass quickly?

The motion calls on the government to ensure that workers' pension funds go to the front of the line of creditors in the event of bankruptcy proceedings. A lot of Canadians are shocked to find out that is not currently the case, but it should be. In my capacity as critic, I have met with countless people who are finding themselves in dire situations through absolutely no fault of their own, due to the bankruptcy of their former employers. It is very unfortunate. We need to be able to protect those Canadians. I am encouraging the government to act immediately to protect the pension funds and make them priority creditors.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance is handling the pension file for the Conservatives, and continues to move it along. On January 9, 2009, the government released a consultation document seeking views from Canadians on the legislative and regulatory framework for federally regulated pension plans. As part of this process, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance will be engaging Canadians through public meetings across Canada to examine issues pertaining to defined benefits, defined contributions and other private pension plans to ensure that the framework pertaining to these pension plans is appropriate.

Given the importance of some of the issues involved, I hoped that the government would accelerate that timeline rather than delay it. However, on May 25, as the parliamentary secretary indicated earlier, he sent out an email saying that the Conservatives had made the decision to extend their consultations until May 31, 2009, which has also passed. The website is up now. In January the issue was so important they were going to move quickly, and in May it was so important that they would need more time to study it.

Something must come out of it quickly. The House will soon be rising. The parliamentary secretary has indicated that he will be bringing in legislation in the fall. I hope that would come sooner rather than later and that many of us have a chance to comment on it prior to its being introduced in the House.

Canadians continue to be worried about the security of their retirement plans, both public and private. The CPP alone has lost some $20 billion, but it still does far better than any other program of a similar nature around the world. It continues to be held as a model in all of the G8 as the most solvent pension plan around.

Part of the motion talks about the issue of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and its bonuses. There has been public outrage over the $7 million paid in bonuses to four top executives at the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board. Our House leader asked that the government request that the CPP Investment Board review its multi-million dollar bonuses in the context of the recession that is killing the jobs of 350,000 ordinary Canadians. We have yet to hear anything concrete from the government, other than the comment that has been made earlier. It would be helpful on a moral basis if the individuals receiving those bonuses stopped and thought about those 350,000 people who have no employment and that that $7 million is actually coming out of their pension program. It would be good if they did it on a moral basis, but it is arm's length, and we all understand that.

The government does not seem to be taking any action on it. The Conservatives are very busy right now with lost binders and tape recorders, but I do hope that does not take them away from the real issues we are trying to deal with today, which are the issues of pension, pension reform and seniors, and how we can help them further in one capacity or another.

Another excellent suggestion from our House leader was that executives, such as president and CEO David Denison, voluntarily give back this year's bonus as a sign of moral leadership. I am sure we would all be very happy if he were to do that, and we would probably find a way to recognize him in the House as being a great Canadian who understands the suffering and struggling of those 350,000 unemployed Canadians, but there is no news on that yet.

Another big issue, especially in these difficult times, is making sure that seniors are aware of the benefits for which they are eligible. I know that most of us on this side of the House, and I imagine throughout the House, have spent a lot of time reaching out to our seniors through our newsletters and householders, making sure that people know what services we provide as MPs but most importantly, that they are eligible for pensions, CPP, OAS and so on, so that we can offer the utmost help to our seniors when they are entitled to it.

A recent Senate report also called for the undertaking of an aggressive campaign to ensure that all eligible Canadians were receiving all retirement and associated benefits. It recommended:

Inform seniors of all possible federal sources of income supports when they apply for any one of them;

The province of Quebec clearly does a very good job of reaching out to all seniors living in Quebec to make sure that they are able to get the resources that are available to them. I think that is a very important thing.

The report continued:

Make available to seniors application forms in aboriginal languages and the languages of larger immigrant populations;

We do a lot of filling out of applications in my office due to language difficulties. I have a very multicultural riding. Once we get our messages out there, ultimately, the people need to go somewhere for help. Many of them end up in my office and we are very pleased to have the opportunity to be able to assist them.

The report continued:

Make fully retroactive repayments with interest to eligible recipients who did not apply for OAS/GIS at 65 or CPP at 70, or who were denied benefits due to administrative errors.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order, please. I must interrupt the hon. member there. I see that the Minister of Finance is rising on a point of order.

Economic Action PlanGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Whitby—Oshawa Ontario

Conservative

Jim Flaherty ConservativeMinister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to an order of the House of Commons dated February 3, 2009, I have the honour of tabling the second report on Canada's economic action plan.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

The hon. member for York West has three minutes left in the time allotted for her remarks.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I guess we can get interrupted whenever someone has to table a report. It would have been nice if that report had been tabled at 11 o'clock. We might have more members sitting in the House rather than out giving interviews on a variety of things.

In this time of economic crisis, there are other things that the government needs to do to help Canadian pensioners. As we know, seniors are forced to withdraw money from many of their investments despite the current market conditions. That seems extremely unfair. I realize that the government has given two years, but I think it would be far better to give people four years.

In two years, they are not going to make up much of the money that they lost. If the government does not want to increase direct compensation to these seniors, it would be a far better way to compensate and assist them by at least giving them four years before they have to withdraw the money from their RRIF program.

CARP, the Canadian Association for Retired Persons, is calling for a two-year moratorium on the RRIF withdrawals in order to minimize the losses of seniors during this economic crisis. It would be of significant help to many of those seniors if the government would turn around and do that. It is not going to cost the government money and it is going to help seniors live a more comfortable life.

The current drop in stock values and the fact that the amount to be withdrawn is calculated on January 1 are both very problematic. Not only are the savings depleted by the mandatory withdrawals but with the reduced value, many more units must be withdrawn to meet the minimum withdrawal requirements, and the retirement savings would be depleted at alarming rates. We are carefully considering suggestions from a variety of organizations throughout Canada, including CARP.

In closing, we will be supporting this motion, as we agree with many of its components. All of us in the House need to work together in order to protect the pensions of Canadians. Of course, the provinces and territories need to cooperate in any pension law reform. We cannot do it alone. We also need to encourage Canadians to increase their own savings for their retirement.

Unfortunately, for many of us, no one thinks about pensions until we start to get into our 40s. When we start to pay attention to it, it is far too late. Canadians need to have a major debate across this country. We need to understand that we all need to be saving for our retirement years. As soon as we start work, we should be putting money aside.

How do we, as a government, show leadership to ensure that people are protected and that they can lead a life of good quality once they retire?

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the member, but also for the parliamentary secretary.

While we are concerned about pensions, we have movements by provincial governments, such as Saskatchewan and Manitoba that, in the past three or four years, passed legislation to allow people easier access to their pension proceeds. In addition, the federal Liberal government made it easier to use RRSP money, as members will recall, as down payments on houses.

Both of these measures, in my view, are contrary to promotion of adequate pension funds for retirement. So, I would like to ask the member whether she agrees that the government is giving conflicting signals to the public when, on the one hand, we make it easy to withdraw pension funds to make down payments on houses and then we expect people to have adequate pensions when they retire?

My further question really had more to do with the parliamentary secretary's comments when he said that he was interested in the Saskatchewan NDP plan that is still in effect in Saskatchewan, that there were some positive benefits to it. I certainly would be more interested in knowing what the strengths of the Saskatchewan system are.

Also, I did ask him a question before, but he did not have time to answer. I wanted him to assure us that the government has no plans to privatize the Canada pension system and--

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order, please.

I will have to stop the member there, to allow the hon. member for York West a chance to respond.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I continue to be very concerned about what the government might do on the CPP file because of the previous comments from the Prime Minister, that he thought we should eliminate it and go into a super RRSP fund. Currently, only 18% of Canadians I believe contribute their maximum to RRSPs.

So, I think that RRSPs are one program, but it does go completely against that when we turn around and allow people to take the money out to put a down payment on a house. Even though I am very supportive of people being able to make a down payment, it does take away from their ability to plan for their future. I think for far too long we as Canadians have not paid attention to the whole issue of retirement. We do not think about it because when we get it, well, we get there. Well, all of a sudden, we can go from earning $80,000 when we are 65 to an amount that is reduced to $20,000. We are not going to go far on $20,000. We are not going to be able to go on vacations. We are not going to be able to drive a car probably, depending on where we live.

It is the whole issue of getting Canadians to pay attention. We need to engage Canadians in the debate all across the country on pension plans and what the government can do, whether that is a supplementary Canada pension plan, or what we can be doing as governments, together with our provinces, to ensure that Canadians will have sufficient funds so that they can retire with a good quality of life.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Macleod Alberta

Conservative

Ted Menzies ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. friend from York West for a good speech.

I sense that there is a lot of support in this House for the concerns that are being raised today. However, as I did not have time to answer the question, if I can, I would like to get it on the record that this government has no intention of privatizing the Canada pension plan. As I said earlier, it is working well.

However, we need to, and that is why we have established this research working group, find out if there is a better way, if there is some way that we can further protect those who are not protected at this point with their retirement income.

The hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona raised a very valid concern. During pre-budget consultations every year, we are asked to provide another process for people to withdraw from their RRSPs to do something or other. I would like a comment from the hon. member as to how to deal with that, how do we help--

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order, please.

The hon. member for York West.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, that is fascinating because I think many of us are supportive of possibly turning around and getting Canadians to invest in RRSPs at a very early age. That is a way of saving money and saving taxes. However, if they take money out, maybe the requirement should be that they have to increase the following year their repayment plan in order to put back the money into their RRSP.

However, the bigger issue is, how do we get Canadians maximizing the use of RRSPs? Only 18% maximize the use now. We need to encourage more people to put more money into those plans. Maybe we need to make it an obligation. I am not sure. No one wants to have to do those things. However, if the Liberals had not increased the contribution levels to the CPP, and I remember the screaming and hollering that went on when the Liberal government did that, people who are retiring today would not have the pension that they receive today.

We need to increase our contributions in a variety of ways, and RRSPs are just one of them.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, the NDP has long stood up for pensions and income security for seniors. Our commitment to the dignity of seniors and all Canadians stems back to the work of MP J.S. Woodsworth, who fought hard for the Old Age Pensions Act passed in 1927. Stanley Knowles, as well, played a pivotal role in establishing income support for our seniors.

In my riding I have met with many seniors at Cedar Cottage, New Chelsea Gardens and Little Mountain Manor seniors homes. They all tell me the same thing. They need more Canada pension plan, more old age security income, better prescriptions, eyeglasses and health care coverage, and better transport and home support.

Could the hon. member comment on the possibility of simply using the present Canada pension plan, which is already a national pension plan set up with all the infrastructure and administration in place? Should we be looking at raising the contribution levels of Canadians so that they can contribute to a national pension plan that is safe and secure for them, as well as increasing the old age security amounts in this country?

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would love to be able to increase it. I am sure all members would. We could increase old age security and the GIS. Right now people are contributing 25% to the CPP. For us to do what we need to do, we would probably have to increase that with a 50% jump in Canada pension plan premiums. I think we would hear a huge outrage.

The answer, possibly, is to contribute a higher percentage. Instead of 25% today, we could start contributing 27% or 29%, so that the pages, for example, who are here today would see the benefits probably more so than anyone else if we started going in that direction of increasing contributions.

Everything comes out of one tax pot at the end of the day. It comes out of general revenues when whoever happens to be the government decides how much money we have and how much can we allocate. Giving more to our low income seniors, trying to help those who are widows or widowers to have a quality life once their partner has died, would certainly go a long way to making them more comfortable and allowing them to stay in their homes a little bit longer as well.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Alan Tonks Liberal York South—Weston, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is an interesting proposal put forward with respect to raising personal contributions that would allow for an expansion of the CPP.

I understand the concern that is being raised with respect to the privatization and the erosion of the pension regime through privatization, but there is an interesting approach that has been suggested. That is to look at the large pension funds and recognize that the problem is underfunding.

Rather than going to the participants for an expansion of the CPP, it has been suggested that the large pension funds, like OMERS and teachers, be folded in with respect to a larger base to then drive a more equitable and expanded CPP.

Would the member give us an idea of whether that would be a plausible approach, looking at those very large pension funds and seeing if they could be used, rather than tax individuals--

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order. The hon. member for York West has 20 seconds to respond.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, we need to look at all opportunities and all suggestions as to what is the better way. At the end of the day, we need to contribute more into programs like the CPP, and ensure that they are well protected and that they protect pensions for everyone. That means bringing them up so that they are part of a piece of legislation, as the Liberals tried to do in 2005, that would protect them. Pensions need to be protected so that when companies go bankrupt, Canadians do not have to worry about their pensions.

Opposition Motion—PensionsBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to address this House on the motion introduced by the member for Hamilton East—Stoney Creek. This motion is consistent with measures we have called for and proposed here in this House for a number of years to improve income security for seniors and retirees.

The motion is aimed at expanding and increasing the Canada pension plan (CPP) and the Quebec pension plan (QPP). We can discuss this a bit later, but I believe that our NDP friends and the Conservatives agree that this part of the motion should be withdrawn, because Quebec has jurisdiction over the Quebec pension plan and has done its job well to date.

This motion is also aimed at expanding and increasing the guaranteed income supplement and old age security to ensure all Canadians can count on a dignified retirement.

The motion also has the following objectives:

(b) establishing a self-financing pension insurance program to ensure the viability of workplace sponsored plans in tough economic times;

(c) ensuring that workers’ pension funds go to the front of the line of creditors in the event of bankruptcy proceedings;

(d) in the interest of appropriate management of the CPP that the Government of Canada immediately protect the CPP from imprudent investment practices by ceasing the practice of awarding managers performance-based bonuses;

(e) take all necessary steps to recover those bonuses for 2009, ensuring managers in the future are paid appropriate industry-competitive salaries.

This motion is quite appropriate in two respects, given the current situation regarding pension funds. First, pension funds are no longer secured because they are being used to help deal with the crisis. Second, because of the double standard, managers will give themselves excessive bonuses that are often inappropriate and unwarranted, dipping into pension funds and forcing workers to give up their own security.

It is, I would point out at the start, totally appropriate to recall Motion M-300 by my colleague, the hon. member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot which addressed four issues: With respect to the guaranteed income supplement, there should be automatic registration in future; there should be a $110 monthly increase in benefits; there should be full retroactivity for seniors who have been shortchanged by the fact that the government never bothered to ensure that those who were entitled in the supplement in the past received it; and payments should be continued for six months to supplement recipients after the death of a spouse. It is therefore appropriate to revisit the measures set out in that motion, M-300, from my Bloc Québécois colleague, which will soon be discussed and debated here in the House.

With respect to this motion, the Bloc Québécois is extremely concerned about the situation of our seniors. We believe that, before giving any thought to changing private pension plans, the government should improve the guaranteed income supplement, in order to allow all seniors in Quebec and in Canada to benefit from an income that is at least equivalent to the poverty level. The government ought to also take advantage of this opportunity to remedy the injustices caused to seniors who have been shortchanged by the guaranteed income supplement. Another measure that could readily be put into place is ensuring that workers' retirement funds take priority over other creditors in the event of bankruptcy.

There has already been a bill passed by the House that includes two essential clauses to protect retirement plans. All that is required for them to become law is an order in council. Workers whose employer falls under the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act or the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act are just waiting for that order in council so that their pension plans will have some degree of protection. The measures have been passed in this House and are not yet enacted because of governmental neglect, with its laissez-faire attitude.

Unfortunately, the Conservative government, true to form, is plunging many workers into great insecurity with its laissez-faire attitude.

As for other discussions that might take place with the provinces, Quebec and the federal government in order to have improve private pension plans, including creation of retirement insurance, the Bloc Québécois is in favour if, and only if, such discussions do not encroach on their respective areas of jurisdiction.

Finally, with respect to the CPP's principles of internal management, we are of the opinion that the Bloc Québécois has no right to interfere, just as we believe that the federal government has no right to be interfering in the Quebec pension plan.

We believe that the government should immediately increase the guaranteed income supplement and reimburse the seniors who were shortchanged. During the summer and autumn of 2007, Bloc Québécois members travelled around Quebec to talk to seniors about their current and future needs and concerns. People in my own riding, Chambly—Borduas, took part in the consultation.

We consulted over 300 seniors and drew the following interesting conclusions. Over the past decade, seniors have been getting poorer. Even though pension funds and guaranteed income supplements have increased significantly in accordance with the consumer price index, except for a few errors over the years, the index has not been an accurate reflection of pensioners' and beneficiaries' situations.

It is difficult, if not impossible, to generalize when it comes to seniors across Quebec. Some are more active than others. Some live alone, some with their families, and some with others in independent or assisted living residences or in care homes. Some live in big cities, others in small towns. All of these factors make it difficult to paint an accurate picture.

There are other factors, too, such as education, past employment, place of origin or current residence, proximity of family members and help from those nearby. Our consultations enabled us to learn more about Quebec's seniors, their standard of living, their needs and their concerns in terms of their everyday lives and the future. We also had opportunities to talk about why some people are getting poorer, to propose solutions to various levels of government, and to find out what seniors think about Quebec society.

As a result of the consultations, the Bloc Québécois made the following proposals: automatic enrollment for the guaranteed income supplement; a $110 monthly increase in the guaranteed income supplement; full retroactivity of the guaranteed income supplement for those who have been shortchanged; and a six-month compensatory extension for any guaranteed income supplement recipient whose spouse has died.

In the 10 minutes remaining, I will try to set the context and describe the appropriate measures to be taken as of now.

In general, aging is accompanied by a decline in health and limitations on activities. The real situation of seniors changed during the 20th century. In 1901, life expectancy was 50 years for men and 47 years for women. In the span of one century, life expectancy has increased by 30 years, which is very significant. We have gone from a very small minority of people who lived to the age of 65 years to a majority of people who plan for and enjoy retirement.

A number of factors affect the well-being of seniors including finances, independence, isolation, community support and, of course, safety. Furthermore, income is one of the most important determinants of health and of a senior's ability to obtain the housing and transportation necessary to maintain independence. Housing, transportation and food together represent more than two-thirds of the expenses of seniors-only households. I personally know couples who spend their entire income on these items. That tells you how poor they are. Senior women living alone run a greater risk of financial insecurity than other groups in society.

In spite of enhancements to the guaranteed income supplement in recent years, more than 7% of Quebec seniors continued to live below the after-tax poverty line in 2006. Although the financial situation of seniors has improved over the past 30 years, 13.7% of seniors lived below the poverty line for at least one year between 1996 and 2003. That is serious.

With regard to seniors' sources of income, retirement income—for those with pension funds or RESPs—represents 29%, Old Age Security accounts for 27%, and the Canada Pension Plan or the QPP, the Quebec pension plan, represents 20%.

Since I am running out of time, I will move on to the solutions. Old age security is only one, albeit fundamental, part of the whole retirement income system and is funded through the government's general tax revenues. It provides a monthly pension to most people aged 65 and older who have been living in Canada for some time. The guaranteed income supplement provides additional income to low income seniors. Thus, it gives a little extra to those who need it. The big problem with all of this is that many of those people have not been able to benefit from the guaranteed income supplement because of this government's negligence or ill will.

The problem is as follows. In the past, in order to receive the guaranteed income supplement, the individual had to apply for it every year. Automatic renewal has only been in place for the past year or year and a half. However, people must first register in order to benefit from the automatic renewal.

The Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities examined the issue following a survey conducted in Toronto in early 2001 by Mr. Shillington, a social statistician and policy analyst.

The study found that only 15% of seniors who were using food banks were getting the guaranteed income supplement, though nearly all were eligible for it. This is a catastrophe. That means that 85% of the people going to food banks should have been receiving the guaranteed income supplement, but were not.

The problem is this: many people often do not even know they are eligible for the GIS, in particular, people who have never worked outside the home, people who do not file income tax returns, aboriginal people, residents of remote communities, people with few literacy skills, people who do not read or speak either official language, people with disabilities or who are ill, and finally, the homeless. Yet the government knows who most of these people are; it is aware of their situation and knows that they are entitled to the guaranteed income supplement. The government's failure to act on this is appalling. It cannot be explained or excused.

What struck our committee most was that the human resources department had known about the under-registration for the guaranteed income supplement since 1993 and that the problem still persists today. This is a serious economic crime that is being committed against people who are among the most vulnerable members of our society, and the two major parties that have governed since 1993 have not only done nothing to correct the situation, but have deliberately ignored it. This is unforgiveable and must be dealt with immediately.

The only justification given by the two successive governments, Liberal and Conservative, is that departments do not have the right to disclose sensitive information to each other about a person's income or tax return. From the outset, the Privacy Commissioner has allayed that fear, saying that such information could be disclosed because people's security was at stake and because it was being transmitted between two departments and two services that were required to keep it confidential. This has added to the considerable damage they have done to seniors and the crime committed by the two parties that have formed successive governments since 1993.

We know the consequences of their actions: people who are living in poverty, people who are often forced to sacrifice their quality of life by cutting back on what they eat or living in unsanitary housing conditions. What is being proposed is automatic registration. We believe that this measure is not only urgent, but needs to be implemented now.

We in this House have sometimes recognized that decisions needed to be fast-tracked. The government could use the fast-track approach so that the House could authorize improvements to the guaranteed income supplement and full retroactivity in order to address this serious crime against seniors.

I would have liked to conclude by talking about retirees, but as the Chair is indicating that my time is almost up, I will come back to that.

In conclusion, I invite hon. members to vote in favour of the motion that is before us, and I also invite them to vote later for Motion M-300, which corrects all the flaws I have just described.