House of Commons Hansard #15 of the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was planning.

Topics

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

North Vancouver B.C.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board

Mr. Speaker, we will not be supporting the motion before the House. The motion is a transparent attempt to reopen the abortion debate that we have clearly said we have no intention to get into. By voting against the motion, we are proving that we will not reopen the abortion debate.

In addition, the motion contains rash, extreme anti-American rhetoric that we cannot as a matter of foreign policy support.

This government cares about saving the lives of mothers and children. That is why Canada is championing a major initiative on maternal and child health at Canada's G8 this year. As the Prime Minister wrote in his opinion piece announcing this year's G8 meeting:

Members of the G8 can make a tangible difference in maternal and child health and Canada will be making this the top priority in June. Far too many lives and unexplored futures have already been lost for want of relatively simple health-care solutions.

Our presidency of the 2010 G8 allows us to mobilize our international partners and to work together to take effective action that will improve the lives of millions of mothers and children around the world.

In the weeks ahead, we will be consulting and working with other partners, including our G8 counterpartners, to help bring about this change. Cleaner water, more vaccinations and better nutrition, along with the training of health care workers to care for new mothers and babies, will be the top priority in this new maternal and child health initiative.

CIDA's mandate is to reduce poverty in developing countries and especially for the most vulnerable populations, including women and children. Through its children and youth strategy, the Canadian International Development Agency is already working to improve vulnerable women's access to maternal health care, reduce sickness and death in newborns, increase immunization and promote nutrition.

Canada is working with partner countries so their health systems will be capable of delivering better health services that are closer to home for mothers and children. We have repeatedly stressed the importance of strengthening health systems so that people will have access to quality health services.

Canada is blessed with incredible expertise and know-how in maternal and child health. Increasing access to family health services is a key programming area for international organizations supported by the Canadian International Development Agency. In addition, responding to the needs of developing country partners, many of our health services are integrated with other activities in a number of CIDA's projects.

The need is great and the opportunity we have to make a difference is real.

Canada has a real opportunity to bring the issue of maternal and child health to the forefront of the world stage. The G8 development ministers meeting in Halifax will set the stage for the June first ministers meeting.

We cannot talk about international development without thinking about the context of human rights. Human rights are a central theme of Canadian foreign policy because respect for human rights is a core Canadian value. We recognize that Canadians expect their government to be a leader in the field of human rights by reflecting and promoting Canadian values, including democracy and the rule of law on the international stage.

This government is well aware that women and the realization of women's rights are central to achieving sustainable development results. Increasing evidence has demonstrated that equality between women and men is necessary eradicate poverty.

In the service of its mandate and consistent with international human rights standards, CIDA seeks to address the barriers of exclusion and discrimination that often exist, so as to extend the benefits of development to the most marginalized peoples and to achieve meaningful development results.

CIDA is working to integrate equality between women and men and good practice principles of inclusion, participation, equality and non-discrimination through its developmental work. That is why they figure prominently in all three of CIDA's priorities: increasing food security; securing the future for children and youth; and sustainable economic growth.

The third priority reflects the fact that focusing on children and youth is one of the best ways to achieve long-term development and poverty reduction. CIDA aims to achieve concrete results that will make a significant sustainable difference in the lives of children and youth. Special attention will be focused on young women and girls because investment in girls and women brings great social and economic returns to their societies. All children have a right to be healthy, receive quality education and grow up in a safe and secure society.

CIDA is committed to helping children and youth in developing countries attain their full potential to become the strong, positive and engaged citizens of tomorrow. For this reason, on Universal Children's Day, the Minister of International Cooperation outlined CIDA's children and youth strategy, which will respond to the needs of the world's most vulnerable and help them become resourceful, engaged and productive young men and women.

CIDA's children and youth strategy will focus on three paths: child survival, including maternal health; access to quality education; and safe and secure futures for children and youth.

Under the safety and security path in this strategy, CIDA will support developing countries with a view to fulfilling the following priorities for action: strengthen and implement national protection legislation and mechanisms to safeguard the human rights and security of children and youth and to protect them, particularly girls, against violence and exploitation; ensure that schools are safe, free from violence and are child-friendly spaces for learning; and support efforts to help youth at risk find alternatives to violence and crime and engage as constructively as full members of society.

Under the child survival and maternal health path of CIDA's children and youth strategy, the government will contribute to ensuring mothers and children have access to the services, medicines and nutrition needed to lead healthy lives.

In addition to programming specific maternal health, CIDA is working to ensure we can make a difference in the lives of children living in developing countries. CIDA recognizes that we need to work with our G8 partners, improving maternal and child health. The maternal and child health discussion is not about what we are including or not including. It is about simple measures that focus on saving the lives of 500,000 pregnant mothers who die annually during childbirth and pregnancy. This initiative is about the nine million children who do not make it past their fifth birthday. This initiative is about providing health services, nutrition and clean water.

I realize that we sometimes tend to play politics in this House. I understand that the job of the opposition is to criticize the government, but I hope we can eventually find a common ground when it comes to maternal and child health.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Mr. Speaker, he made two comments at the very beginning of his debate, which I would like to question him about further.

The first point was opening the abortion debate. I do not quite understand where he is coming from on that one. I would like to get his opinion on this point.

Canada has pledged its commitment to support the millennium development goals, which includes universal access to reproductive health, including family planning, which is goal five, target two. The goal is sometimes referred to as the unmet need to avoid a pregnancy and the number of women having access to modern contraceptives. I would like his opinion on that. I am not quite sure if he agrees or disagrees.

Another was his comment about anti-American. In fact, in the first week President Obama endorsed this. Secretary of State Clinton said:

In...the administration, we are convinced of the value of investing in women and girls, and we understand there is a direct line between a woman’s reproductive health and her ability to lead a productive, fulfilling life.

She was commenting about the policy change from when George Bush was in power.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, I will repeat what I said. This government is open to looking at all options that will protect the health and well-being of women and children. This includes saving the lives of 500,000 mothers a year who die during childbirth and nine million children who do not make it past their fifth birthday. We will look at all options to protect the health and well-being of these children and women.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, every year it is estimated that 74,000 women around the world die as a result of unsafe abortions that could be prevented with contraception and access to safe abortion facilities. In addition, for every woman who dies, 20 more experience serious complications, ranging from chronic infection to disabling injuries.

The 2010 budget announced a freeze on foreign aid levels and officials have said that this maternal health program will have to be funded out of the existing aid budget.

How does this lack of resources square with the Prime Minister's new-found interest in fulfilling the millennium development goals?

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, this issue is about saving lives. We cannot stand idle while mortality rates in Africa continue to escalate. I refer to the UNESCO report. It states clearly that the single most effective way to address maternal and child mortality is access to health care and health professionals. This is consistent with our government's approach to this matter. We have the know-how and we have the ability to save lives, and we are going to use it.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Kevin Sorenson Conservative Crowfoot, AB

Mr. Speaker, last night when I saw the motion the Liberal Party was bringing forward, I was very disappointed because again we see a party that is adrift, the Liberal Party. We see a party that is trying to politicize an issue on the backs of women and children. I think history will say shame, shame on them for trying to accomplish that.

We need to be very concerned with the issue at hand. I know it has been brought out in speeches that our government has been very clear about the maternal and child health initiatives we will be putting forward at this year's G8 meeting. Those who come together are looking forward to the agenda that has been brought forward, a positive agenda, an agenda that will deal with mothers and children, one that is about saving the lives of 500,000 pregnant mothers every year. This is what Parliament needs to be concerned with, not a divisive issue that is politicized.

The Liberal Party also politicizes a former American. I am questioning the member as to why they would be so political on an issue like this.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC

Mr. Speaker, I think it is absolutely shameful that the opposition is trying to turn this debate into an issue that will be divisive. We are focused on one issue, and that is saving the lives of mothers and children around the world.

Every year 500,000 mothers die during childbirth; nine million children do not even make it to their fifth birthday.

That is our priority. That is our focus. Canadians can be proud of our Prime Minister for making this the initiative for the G8 summit in June.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak today on the opposition motion. Even though some on the other side feel this is about politics, it is actually about the lives of women and children.

The science is clear. The facts are clear. The statistics are horrific.

I have delivered probably 2,000 babies as a family physician, and I have seen one maternal mortality in my lifetime. It is a day I will never forget. We had every possible modern medicine technology there in the room to try to save this woman's life and she died anyway.

I have seen many babies die. To this day, I feel that every single one of those babies had a family, had grandparents, and that experience changed the lives of those families forever.

Once as a medical student in the Caribbean, I saw a woman arrive with a temperature of 104°, chills and rigors, septic from the effects of an illegal abortion.

We actually have to get on with this file. It is one woman dying every minute of every day. In my lifetime I saw one maternal death, but in Sierra Leone 2,000 women die in every 100,000 births. That is two per hundred. This is unacceptable and we have to do better.

However, we also have to do better here in Canada where, because of the gap in health status of our aboriginal peoples, we still are not doing well enough on the world standard. We still are losing 5.2 babies per 100,000 when even Cuba was able to reach the goal of 4.8 per 100,000 in the last year.

The report, “Adding it up: The Benefits of Investing in Sexual and Reproductive Health Care” by the Allan Guttmacher Institute and the UNFPA states that sexual and reproductive ill health account for one-third of the global burden of disease among women of reproductive age and one-fifth of the burden of disease among the population overall. It says that HIV-AIDS accounts for 6% of the global disease burden. It says that the need for sexual and reproductive health services, and thus the potential benefit of meeting the need, is greatest among the poorest women, men and children in the world's lowest-income countries.

We know that satisfying the unmet need for contraceptive services in developing countries would avert 52 million unintended pregnancies annually, which in turn would save more than 1.5 million lives and prevent 505,000 children from losing their mothers.

A woman cannot die from complications arising during pregnancy and childbirth if she is not pregnant, and we know the children do not do well when their mother is dead.

Yet by refusing to fund programs that respect women's reproductive rights, including contraception and all aspects of reproductive health services, the government is allowing its ideological differences to get in the way of good health and gender equity.

The Mexico City policy was created in 1984 by the Reagan administration. This later became known as the global gag rule and was a policy of the United States government that barred any foreign organization receiving U.S. foreign assistance from using its own funds or funds from other donors to perform abortions, advocate for the liberalization or decriminalization of abortion in laws and policies, or provide information, make referrals or counsel women on the procedure, even in countries where abortion was legal.

The Mexico City policy was announced as a new restriction at the international conference on population development in Mexico City in 1984 by the Reagan administration. This policy was in place until 1993 when, as his first act in office, President Bill Clinton overturned it. Yet on January 22, 2001, President George Bush issued a presidential memorandum reinstating the Mexico City policy. It was his first act as president. On January 23, 2009, President Barrack Obama overturned this policy once again.

According to the Center for Health and Gender Equity, approximately 500,000 women die from pregnancy-related causes each year, and according to the United Nations Population Fund, 74,000 women die every year from unsafe abortions.

They go on to say that an estimated 201 million women have an unmet need for family planning. The highest unmet need is in sub-Saharan Africa where one in four married women wants to limit or space her births but does not have access to the services to do so.

This lack of access to family planning results in 80 million unintended pregnancies a year. They go on to say that of the 80 million unintended pregnancies each year, 60% end in abortion.

The problem was that the global gag rule tied the hands of the trained reproductive health providers, because family planning organizations receiving U.S. funds could neither perform abortions for their clients nor advise women on where to seek the procedure.

As a result, women were not able to turn to trained doctors or nurses for safe medical care. They were left to find their own care, which often meant an unsafe, illicit abortion. Globally, 16 women die every hour from unsafe abortions.

Restrictive government laws on abortion often force the practice underground, as the centre said, contributing to the morbidity and mortality rates associated with unsafe abortion. Instead of fostering civil society participation in government and promoting democratic values, they felt that the global gag rule undermined rights, such as the freedom of speech and assembly rights that Americans enjoy, by prohibiting international organizations from working with their governments.

What was worse was that the global gag rule also prohibited organizations that provide information and services related to abortion from receiving U.S. contraceptive supplies, such as female and male condoms, birth control pills, intrauterine devices and other medically effective methods of contraception. As a result, services providers either had to comply with the policy or forgo the much-needed family planning.

We are hugely concerned on this side that should the government go forward with its plan, where it believes it can restrict or cherry-pick parts of a family-planning approach, we will again end up with the effect of the gag rule.

While immunization, access to clean water, better nutrition and improved training for health-care workers are all important to the health and safety of women and girls, addressing the real issues underlying poor maternal and infant health requires that the full gamut of options be made available to promote education, family planning and gender equality. Anything less is a mere band-aid solution.

The Partnership for Maternal, Newborn and Child Health has produced an excellent consensus document. Their aim is “every pregnancy wanted, every birth safe, every newborn and child healthy”. They have a plan that will save the lives of more than 10 million women and children by 2015.

How will it be accomplished? The consensus document could not be clearer. It calls for political leadership and effective health systems that deliver a package of high-quality interventions in key areas along the whole continuum of care.

Effective health systems are necessary to target the most disadvantaged, and to prevent, treat, manage, assess and evaluate all aspects having an impact on maternal health, as well as on those living with HIV-AIDS or STDs.

I wish to thank Janet Hatcher Roberts, the executive director of the Canadian Society for International Health, for her incredible work in advocating the strengthening of national health systems in every developing country.

It is important to say how this plan would be delivered through a strong, well-funded health system, with trained appropriate and paid health professionals. The continuum of care must include: comprehensive family planning; skilled care for women and newborns during and after pregnancy, including antenatal care; quality care at birth; emergency care for complications; post-natal care and essential newborn care; safe abortion services when abortion is legal; and improved child nutrition, and prevention and treatment of major childhood diseases. These are all explicit in the partnership document in terms of its plan.

It also stress that barriers to access must be removed, and skilled and motivated health workers be in the right place at the right time. Accountability at all levels must be ensured for credible results.

I would like to commend Dr. Dorothy Shaw, Canada's spokesperson for Partnership for Maternal and Child Health for the G8-G20 and her excellent work on this initiative. I implore the Government of Canada to take her advice and put forward at the G8 table the full spectrum of the plan and the consensus document put forward by the partnership.

Action Canada for Population and Development, under the leadership of its excellent executive director, Katherine McDonald, has written an extensive call to action, asking the Prime Minister to assure that he will not change Canada's long-standing tradition of recognizing women's reproductive rights and access to contraception as part of his maternal health initiative at the G8.

ACPD has explicitly called on the Prime Minister to work with Canada's G8 partners to ensure that sexual and reproductive health and rights, particularly access to family planning, including contraception, will be part of the G8 maternal and child health initiative.

ACPD also stresses accountability, and I am pleased that the government has stressed that accountability be a focus of this year's G8. At last year's G8 in Italy, the heads of government agreed that maternal and child health was one of the world's most pressing global problems. They committed to accelerating progress on maternal health, including through sexual and reproductive health care and services, and voluntary family planning. The Prime Minister promised last year; the Prime Minister must deliver this year.

ACPD is calling on Canada's G8 partners to build on, not backtrack, previous commitments. Sexual reproductive health and rights, especially access to family planning, including contraception, must be part of the initiative.

Therefore, in order to be accountable, the government must honour its own commitment at last year's G8 to accelerate the progress on combating maternal and child mortality, including through sexual and reproductive health and family planning.

We know that dividing the G8 is not leadership. It is not leadership for Canada to say, “We will do this and the other members of the G8 can do the ones that we do not want to do because of our socially conservative ideology”.

We noticed in the Minister of International Cooperation's remarks last week that “they”, the G8 leaders, not Canada, will chart the way forward to save the lives of mothers and children. “They” is not good enough. We need Canada to lead by affirming Canada's commitment to providing the full range of reproductive health services and a pledge of financial support befitting the Canadian leadership the Prime Minister has promised.

The Minister of International Cooperation was quoted as saying that she was not closing the door on any options that will save the lives of mothers and children. There is, however, a huge difference between keeping a door open and Canada coming up with a consistent, comprehensive approach to sexual health and reproductive health services.

We have become particularly concerned in the government's ability to present a comprehensive and coherent plan, when we hear its own members spreading false information.

In a recent editorial the member for Saskatoon—Wanuskewin and the member for Saskatoon—Humboldt told readers that there was no evidence to back up claims that proper education, resources and support would reduce maternal deaths and complications in spite of the wide swath of evidence already mentioned in our remarks.

How can we be confident in the government's ability to represent the mothers and children of the developing world, when here in Canada it has launched a systemic assault against women's health?

The four centres of excellence for children's well-being, whose job is to put research into practice in early childhood development, in child welfare, in children with special needs, and in youth engagement, did not have their funding renewed under the government's new program review. The centres of excellence for women's health received informal cuts and are being forced to operate under a new, more narrow and constrained mandate.

The government's new program review uses three criteria: accountability, cost effectiveness and alignment. I find this last criteria particularly worrying. It is a code for any intent of the government to cancel programs that are not aligned with government priorities. It also allows the government to cancel programs that it determines are not aligned with its strict interpretation of federal responsibility; that is, health and health care. We are all concerned that community-based programs may be increasingly at risk.

In leadership the first test is always what is happening at home. We draw the attention, although admirable, of the Prime Minister to the state of the developing countries with issues like potable water and deplorable housing conditions.

We actually want the government to look at home, to the plight of our aboriginal people, where there are 17 people living in one home with no running water, as we learned, on the reserves in Manitoba in June during H1N1.

It is extraordinary that we have to do more at home. It is a national and international embarrassment. We have to begin at home.

The Government of Canada has also refused to provide the International Planned Parenthood Federation with $18 million over three years, funding that is essential if the government truly wants to abide by the Partnership for Maternal, Newborn and Child Health's consensus document, answer ACPD's call for action, and honour Canada's international obligations to meet—not renege on—previous commitments to provide funding for sexual and reproductive health and rights in general.

Effective family planning is a human rights issue. The Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, to which Canada is a signatory, says countries must ensure access to health services, including those related to family planning.

The 1994 International Conference on Population and Development in Cairo and the United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing recognized the right of men and women to be informed and to have access to safe, effective, affordable and acceptable methods of family planning of their choice.

Without this right to make decisions about fertility and family planning, women's capacity to exercise their own civil, political and economic rights is limited. The consequence of their absence has serious implications for women, and may even jeopardize their right to life.

Immediate action is needed. I have said before that it is crucial that politicians do the politics and that scientists do the science, and that the transmission of information from the scientist to the politician be done transparently, with accountability, and without ideology.

I implore the government to listen to the partnership action plan for the G8 and act in terms of what the midwives and the obstetricians, and the professionals have said is an essential, coherent plan, not to cherry-pick the bits that it wants to do.

I would encourage all members of this House, especially my colleagues on the government side, to support this motion, support the millennium development goals four and five, and ensure that Canada builds on its commitments to include the full range of family planning, sexual reproduction and health options, including contraception, as part of the G8 initiative.

The Prime Minister's opinion piece was a beginning. We welcomed it. We now want real leadership in honouring Canada's history in the world, and the government's previous commitments in Italy and at the UN. The government must put forward a real comprehensive plan based on the partnership of the G8 and full access to reproductive care.

The government must put leadership-level dollars on the table. Canadians want Canada to lead. We implore members to support this motion.

Justice and Human RightsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:20 p.m.

Carleton—Mississippi Mills Ontario

Conservative

Gordon O'Connor ConservativeMinister of State and Chief Government Whip

Mr. Speaker, I believe that if you were to seek it, you would find unanimous consent for the following four travel motions. I move:

That, in relation to its study on the state of organized crime, 12 members of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights be authorized to travel to Edmonton, Alberta and Winnipeg, Manitoba in the spring of 2010, and that the necessary staff accompany the committee.

(Motion agreed to)

I move:

That, in relation to its study on the state of organized crime, 12 members of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights be authorized to travel to Toronto, Ontario in the spring of 2010, and that the necessary staff accompany the committee.

(Motion agreed to)

Veterans AffairsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

Carleton—Mississippi Mills Ontario

Conservative

Gordon O'Connor ConservativeMinister of State and Chief Government Whip

I move:

That, in relation to its study on the review of the new veterans charter, 12 members of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs be authorized to travel to Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue, Quebec in the spring of 2010, and that the necessary staff accompany the committee.

(Motion agreed to)

National DefenceCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

Carleton—Mississippi Mills Ontario

Conservative

Gordon O'Connor ConservativeMinister of State and Chief Government Whip

I move:

That, in relation to its study of Arctic sovereignty, 12 members of the Standing Committee on National Defence be authorized to travel to Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, and Iqaluit, Nunavut in the spring of 2010, and that the necessary staff accompany the committee.

(Motion agreed to)

National DefenceCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for St. John's South—Mount Pearl, Access to Information; the hon. member for Sudbury, Violence in Sports.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for St. Paul's for her intervention. Unfortunately, I profoundly disagree with most of what she said.

The Liberals are Johnnys-come-lately to the whole issue of women's and children's health outcomes in the third world. For 13 years the Liberals had an opportunity to do something about it. Yet, their policy on international assistance and development failed. It was unfocused and ineffective.

Our Prime Minister and our Conservative government finally took the bull by the horns and made it a priority for the upcoming G8 and G20 summits. What do we receive? Rather than applauding this, the opposition parties want to turn this into a debate on abortion. It is shameful.

My question to the member is this. Why, during her 13 years in government, the previous 13 years of darkness, did the Liberals never make this a priority. Former Prime Minister Chrétien and former Prime Minister Paul Martin attended numerous summits. Yet, they made absolutely no efforts to make maternal and children's health a priority on the international stage. Why did they not get it done?

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think that the Liberal record is strong, and particularly in Prime Minister's Chrétien's pledge to Africa and Prime Minister Martin's pledge to not only Africa but our aboriginal peoples.

However, it is clear that Africa has the worst outcomes on maternal and child health, so the question we have is, how can this government be so inconsistent as to be removing funding for programs in Africa and turning its attention to South America, when it is Africa that actually has the greatest need by every indicator that we want to use?

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the hon. member for St. Paul's. I know she has been consulting quite a bit on this subject we are debating today. Most recently, this month, she met with the W8 group, a group that is travelling across the world to bring awareness to decision makers. It is a group that is recognized by Oxfam, so I think we can't question their credibility.

Would the hon. member tell us what their demands were exactly? I think she met with people from India and Malawi. Could she tell us more about what their demands were?

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member has stated, meeting with those people put a huge human face on what they live every day, and meeting with the midwife from Malawi who only has one pair of hands and has three or four women in distress at the same time. This is about trained health care providers and the need for comprehensive health systems and paid workers but they cannot do it without a comprehensive system. It requires a coherent plan but it particularly requires that we listen to the voices of the people on the ground.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC

Mr. Speaker, I listened closely to my colleague.

I would like her to tell me what is behind the fact that, since this morning, the Conservative members have been rising one after the other, saying ad nauseam that we want to re-open the abortion debate when, in reality, they are the only ones who want to do that in the House.

What does she think is behind this?

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Mr. Speaker, I could not agree more with my colleague. The abortion debate was dealt with 25 years ago.

The people opposite are the only ones who want to raise this. We are calling on the government to continue a policy that has been in place for 25 years. We do not want to open it either. This is absolutely ridiculous. I am so upset. If any one of those members opposite had seen the sickness that we have seen from illegal abortions, they would not be doing this now. Women have been seeking abortions for as long as they have been getting pregnant and we need to ensure they do not die doing that.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, unlike the government member, I actually enjoyed the speech from the member.

However, I do want to point out to her that great speeches from the progressive wing of the Liberal Party are not the total goal here. We remember that the Liberals were in power for 40 years, or certainly for 40 years they have taken the position that 0.7% of gross national product should be put aside for international development and yet to this date we still have not achieved half of that.

This morning the member for Vancouver Kingsway and I asked successive Liberal speakers to put on the record now whether, if they were to form the government in the future, they would in fact agree to go back to 0.7% of gross national product toward international development. We would like the member to put that commitment on the record now.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am thrilled to say that working together with our CIDA critic, the member for London—Fanshawe, we need to redefine what actually is overseas development. Health has not actually been part of the way we defined development previously. Developing health systems and developing new approaches to maternal and child health will be the way we need to go forward.

When we as a government sent our lab to Angola to deal with the Ebola virus or when after SARS we trained the Vietnamese lab technicians at our Winnipeg lab, that was never really included in the 0.7%. We want to get there and we want to get there as fast as we can but we need to redefine what international development really means and it must include health and health care.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Mr. Speaker, I think it is clear that everyone in the House agrees that the rate of maternal and child morbidity is absolutely unacceptable and that it is a very worthy priority for the G8. However, I did listen to the member for St. Paul's and at the very start of her speech she said that this was not about politics.

This morning in the health committee, we were sitting listening to very important testimony from veterans, soldiers, police and an RCMP widow. In the middle of that testimony, it was interrupted by the Liberal Party to introduce this motion to the health committee. If this is not about politics, could she please tell me why her party would interrupt important testimony from important people and take away from their time in terms of this debate?

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Mr. Speaker, the three members of the Conservative Party were not even there for the testimony because they were at abortion school learning how not to talk about abortion this afternoon. From 9 o'clock until 10 o'clock, the Conservative members were in a caucus meeting and did not have the respect to listen to those witness. I will not take any advice from her.

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Rod Bruinooge Conservative Winnipeg South, MB

Mr. Speaker, I have a quick question for the doctor. I know it has been indicated that the foreign policy she is suggesting would be based on the status quo relative to abortion in Canada. Are there any exclusions from that status quo that she would insert in the foreign policy, such as a provision of gender selection abortion?

Opposition Motion--Maternal and Child HealthBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Mr. Speaker, the policy as presented by the partnership in terms of the G8 is allowing abortion only in the countries where it is legal. In terms of maternal and child health, I gender selection is certainly not part of my maternal health program. That is something that is between women, their doctors and their country. That is not really what we are focusing on in terms of saving 550,000 lives a year.